Looking for complete and accurate battle power list

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:33 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Which makes me wonder, are we led to believe that 23rd TB Son and Piccolo the same level as Raditz Son and Piccolo?

I doubt they're the exact same, but I think it was implied neither had been busting their ass training.

Post by **Herms** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:37 pm

Well, we know Piccolo improved at least enough to use the Makankosappo, and Goku was walking around with those weights on, so he had presumably been training. So they're at least a bit stronger than they were at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai. Part of the problem with applying battle powers to the pre-Raditz stuff is that if Kame-sennin is at 139, and Goku and Piccolo are a little over 400, then everything in between ends up pretty squished. It's almost certainly a result of Toriyama just assigning numbers without thinking them through too much. But since Toriyama wrote everying up to Raditz without thinking in terms of battle power numbers, I don't think it's very useful to read those early stories with them in mind.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:42 pm

Herms wrote:Part of the problem with applying battle powers to the pre-Raditz stuff is that if Kame-sennin is at 139, and Goku and Piccolo are a little over 400, then everything in between ends up pretty squished.

Did Roshi train for the 22nd Budokai? I seem to remember he did, and I know he trained some for the 21st (neither shown, but stated by Roshi).

It's almost certainly a result of Toriyama just assigning numbers without thinking them through too much. But since Toriyama wrote everying up to Raditz without thinking in terms of battle power numbers, I don't think it's very useful to read those early stories with them in mind.

I don't think it's a huge problem. The difference between 160 and 200 counts for a lot more than between 20,000 and 20,040.

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:51 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Herms wrote:Part of the problem with applying battle powers to the pre-Raditz stuff is that if Kame-sennin is at 139, and Goku and Piccolo are a little over 400, then everything in between ends up pretty squished.
Did Roshi train for the 22nd Budokai? I seem to remember he did, and I know he trained some for the 21st (neither shown, but stated by Roshi).

It's almost certainly a result of Toriyama just assigning numbers without thinking them through too much. But since Toriyama wrote everying up to Raditz without thinking in terms of battle power numbers, I don't think it's very useful to read those early stories with them in mind.
I don't think it's a huge problem. The difference between 160 and 200 counts for a lot more than between 20,000 and 20,040.

He sure trained for the 21st. I think he should have done that for the 22nd too, I also recall it being mentioned. He still wanted to show his students (Goku mainly) that there always would be someone stronger than them.
When a guy like Tenshinhan showed up, he stepped down.
I am not 100% sure about this, because of that I don't have my manga here.

Post by **Herms** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:07 pm

During the preliminaries of the 22nd TB, Kame-sennin mentions in an inner monologe that he trained in secret so as not to lose to his pupils. I don't believe he ever says anything about training for the 21st TB.

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:48 pm

Herms wrote:During the preliminaries of the 22nd TB, Kame-sennin mentions in an inner monologe that he trained in secret so as not to lose to his pupils. I don't believe he ever says anything about training for the 21st TB.

Then I must've got them mixed up.

Just a question: When Goku and Kuririn are training for the 21st Budokai, they move a big boulder to show that they are strong. Kame Sennin then gets shocked, right?
Goku even moved the boulder much more than Kame Sennin.
Then both Goku and Kuririn move an even bigger boulder with an even more shocked Kame Sennin.
Is this just because of that he was shocked or their abilities? Because eventually, he is stronger than Kuririn and equal to Goku.