An observation on Dragon Ball's English-speaking fanbases.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:34 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:
omegacwa wrote:
Herms wrote: Just to be nit-picky, but there is no "Japanese dub" of DragonBall. Dubbing refers to the replacement of a show or movie's original dialog with dialog in another language (or sometimes the same language, when the movie's dialog needs to be changed for whatever reason), it's not merely a generic term for dialog. So saying "DragonBall's Japanese dub" is like saying "DragonBall's Japanese translation".
Wow, that really is nitpicky, considering they dubbed in the Japanese voices over the blank soundtrack.
You dont' "dub" over nothing. Dubbing does, specifically, refer to replacing the original voices with new ones.

So what is the term for putting voices over something originally then?

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:05 pm

From thefreedictionary.com:

dub 3 (db)
tr.v. dubbed, dub·bing, dubs
1.
a. To transfer (recorded material) onto a new recording medium.
b. To copy (a record or tape).
2. To insert a new soundtrack, often a synchronized translation of the original dialogue, into (a film).
3. To add (sound) into a film or tape: dub in strings behind the vocal.
n.
1. The new sounds added by dubbing.
2. A dubbed copy of a tape or record.

dub 2
Verb
[dubbing, dubbed]
1. to provide (a film) with a new soundtrack in a different language
2. to provide (a film or tape) with a soundtrack
Noun
Music a style of reggae record production involving exaggeration of instrumental parts, echo, etc. [shortened from double]

EDIT:

According to wikipedia.com:

In filmmaking, dubbing or looping is the process of recording or replacing voices for a motion picture. The term is most commonly used in reference to voices recorded that do not belong to the original actors and speak in a different language from the one in which the actor is speaking. "Dubbing" can also be used to describe the process of re-recording lines by the actor who originally spoke them. This process is technically known as automated dialogue replacement, or ADR.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:19 pm

Wasn't the show done radio/chorus style over in Japan?

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:26 pm

I guess I fall into the "Japanese version fans" category because I haven't touched the dub since the late Boo arc in 2003 when I started watching that arc fansubbed because CN refused to air all of the episodes in a timely manner. I think the Boo arc went from late 2001-2003 or some sort of bullshit. I just couldn't wait around for that any longer. Ever since then I haven't even chosen the dub since I just found the original to just be better in every way.

You know I really don't like this type of fan.

"The Z fans who don't like Dragon Ball"

Why oh why? Do they realize that they are missing half of a series? Do they realize that Z essentially has no story because all of the aspects that are common in Z were in Dragon Ball first and where extremely shocking where in Z they aren't? Do they realize that the fighting in Dragon Ball is actually not people becoming lines and going across the screen and having sonicbooms come out and actual punches and kicks are being performed? Do they realize Dragon Ball was actually funny and not fake serious with lukewarm comedy? Do they realize YADA YADA YADA.

Yeah I know I can go on but they just annoy me a lot. When they try to explain the story form a Z prospective it's almost laughable and sad at the same time.

Kunzait_83 wrote:FUNimation would’ve gone on to become the nobodies who did Cyboars, and either Pioneer/Geneon or ADV would’ve probably snapped up the rights and did at least a marginally competent dub from the getgo with bilingual releases first thing out the gate. Hell if Geneon had gotten it, their U.S. branch would’ve probably never gone out of business.

Depends. The reason why we get well dubbed and translated anime with Japanese audio for nearly everything except 4kids and Disney anime is because people looked at Dragon Ball Z and all of the other crappy dubs and releases and decided to not follow that path. I think if it weren't for that happening then I'm pretty sure we'd still have most of the anime that comes here as crappily edited, dub-only releases. It's sad though that Funi can't make a proper dub of Dragon Ball Z even though now they damn well can.

Post by **Herms** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:57 pm

Vekurotto wrote:You know I really don't like this type of fan.

"The Z fans who don't like Dragon Ball"

Why oh why? Do they realize that they are missing half of a series? Do they realize that Z essentially has no story because all of the aspects that are common in Z were in Dragon Ball first and where extremely shocking where in Z they aren't? Do they realize that the fighting in Dragon Ball is actually not people becoming lines and going across the screen and having sonicbooms come out and actual punches and kicks are being performed? Do they realize Dragon Ball was actually funny and not fake serious with lukewarm comedy? Do they realize YADA YADA YADA.

Yeah I know I can go on but they just annoy me a lot. When they try to explain the story form a Z prospective it's almost laughable and sad at the same time.

While I don't think Z was as bad as all that, I do agree that it's annoying when people write off everything pre-Raditz. What especially gets on my nerves is people who complain that everything after Freeza/Cell is just rehashed, when like you said most of the stuff during even the earliest of Z had already been done already in DB. Or when people complain about how absurdly strong everyone gets post-Freeza/Cell, and how it makes them seem weak before, when the exact same thing is true for Freeza/Cell with regards to DB, but pretty much nobody every complains about that. DB has some of the best fights in all of DragonBall-dom, but too many people will offhandedly refer to the DB-era characters as being weak.

The reason why we get well dubbed and translated anime with Japanese audio for nearly everything except 4kids and Disney anime

Disney anime?

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:02 am

I do know that Disney does all the Miyazaki films, but other than VHS and maybe their first run of Totoro DVDs, they've had the Japanese audio in every release.

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:09 am

Herms wrote:Disney anime?

Well pretty much Digimon and maybe PR since they withhold Sentai from ever being released outside of Japan.

Remix · Post by **Remix** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:34 am

The fans who enjoy both releases and would prefer to own either one if given the choice

There I am!

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:43 am

At this point for me Dragonball is Dragonball and I don't care how it's presented to me. I'm a fan of the dub because that's what I grew up with, so the voices and music aren't as radically different to me as some purists. Now that I have access to the original Japanese Dragonball I like it too. I'm also quite fond of my season sets with the English language track and Japanese BGM.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:32 am

Vekurotto wrote:
Herms wrote:Disney anime?
Well pretty much Digimon and maybe PR since they withhold Sentai from ever being released outside of Japan.

With Digimon the market isn't there to justify dual-language. And PR is an adaptation so it's different from a dub.

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:05 am

Super Sonic wrote:With Digimon the market isn't there to justify dual-language. And PR is an adaptation so it's different from a dub.

Well then again I'm remembering that Disney can't even release the series that they have owned in any form. So what they do really doesn't matter it's just more annoying that they're just incompetent with the cartoons, PR, and the other stuff that they've picked up in the last 7 years and American Kingdom Hearts.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:26 am

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:I do know that Disney does all the Miyazaki films, but other than VHS and maybe their first run of Totoro DVDs, they've had the Japanese audio in every release.

Disney doesn't have a choice, they have to from what I understand.

Vekurotto wrote:
Super Sonic wrote:With Digimon the market isn't there to justify dual-language. And PR is an adaptation so it's different from a dub.
Well then again I'm remembering that Disney can't even release the series that they have owned in any form. So what they do really doesn't matter it's just more annoying that they're just incompetent with the cartoons, PR, and the other stuff that they've picked up in the last 7 years and American Kingdom Hearts.

Damn Disney for not releasing Zorro to the general public.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:10 pm

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:31 pm

Vekurotto wrote:
Super Sonic wrote:With Digimon the market isn't there to justify dual-language. And PR is an adaptation so it's different from a dub.
Well then again I'm remembering that Disney can't even release the series that they have owned in any form. So what they do really doesn't matter it's just more annoying that they're just incompetent with the cartoons, PR, and the other stuff that they've picked up in the last 7 years and American Kingdom Hearts.

How are they incompentent with Kingdom Hearts? That game was excellent. If it's about not having Japanese language, lots of guys don't want to hear modern Pooh or Goofy being voiced by anyone other than Jim Cummings and Bill Farmer.

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:48 pm

Super Sonic wrote:How are they incompentent with Kingdom Hearts? That game was excellent. If it's about not having Japanese language, lots of guys don't want to hear modern Pooh or Goofy being voiced by anyone other than Jim Cummings and Bill Farmer.

Um it's not about the Japanese voices. Quite frankly the Disney characters suck in Japanese and each language has flaws really.

Look how I saw it on that subject was that the Disney characters and Kingdom Hearts original characters all minus Roxas were great in English. There's not reason why they shouldn't be speaking English. However thanks to Square's incompetents the FFVII characters in KH II sound hideous. Hearing the all important Aerith, Cloud, and Sephiroth talk in Kingdom Hearts II makes me want to cry. But that's not the point that I was talking about, it's the fact that they edit Disney stuff. As in stuff that they made themselves in their levels from their movies. For example the pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean level don't have guns in the American version even though they had them in the movie. Also in Hercules whenever Hydra's heads got knocked off in movie Hercules remember how there was that green goo that come out of it? Well Disney got rid of it, for the American version only.

To me, I could have expected that since Disney is insane with edits but Hell, they fucking show Hercules on TOON DISNEY without edits. And it pretty much shows that they're xenophobes because they edited out content on accident thinking that it was Japanese

.

There are also other minor edits to KH II. I don't think there were any in KH I. But it's still stupid that they edit their own content that they still show on TV.

Kunzait_83 wrote:Everything he said about anime in the 90's America.

Yeah I get what you're saying but I've gotta ask, I don't think there were any other anime on TV during that time period except for those horrible edited shows right? Because I don't remember much else other than those horribly edited mistreated series on TV at the time.

Maybe I'm too young, I was about 7 in 1995, and didn't really become a fan of anime until I was about 10, but as far as I know those DTV releases never actually got put on TV other than maybe HBO right? My cable company at the time put it in the expanded cable area but then again that was my case. So what I'm saying is if you noticed back then the only things that actually sold moreso outside of their fanbase were series that were on TV regularly, at a time where people saw it. Did that mean Dragon Ball and many of those other series had to have horrible edits to be put on TV? No as evidence by the Boo saga when 9 time of the 10 the episodes aired uncut. But I don't think as many of us would be in this forum or even talking about Dragon Ball.

So in the end I agree that all of the bullshit would have pretty much been non-existent, the Dragon Ball wikipedia page would actually be usable with actual facts and attack names and not have Karin listed as "Whiskers the Wonder Cat"

, but I also wonder were the hell would people be able to watch Dragon Ball. VHS tapes were damn expensive back in the day and finding somebody to license a 500+ episode series would have been laughable back then. I find that unlike most of the series you've mentioned Dragon Ball at the heart of it is for kids let's say 8-12 unlike Ranma 1/2, Guyver, Urusei Yatsura, Lupin, and Patlabor which are intended for the mid to late teens and older college students. Like I said that doesn't excuse the edits and changes made to Dragon Ball but I just don't see how older audiences could like the extreme kiddiness of Dragon Ball over those series. I find that Dragon Ball would have probably been mocked still, not as much as it is now, but still mocked if it was only a direct to video release because there's nothing "adult" about the series. I mean wasn't that the main draw of anime during that time? That's why I watched it back then foolishly thinking that. But what I'm saying is if you had either Guyver, Crying Freeman, or Hokuto No Ken to watch during that time period of the mid-90's I think more would choose those series over Dragon Ball.

So I really have mixed feelings about how Dragon Ball would have worked out if it were treated like an "actual", (in quotations because that's stupid hierarchy), I think that it'd probably be like Hokuto No Ken now which nobody except for a few people watch.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:10 pm

I would belong to the following..

Formerly - Japanese VHS bootleg fansub loyalists
* Misguided Japanese version fans
* Japanese version fans
* Nostalgic English dub Z fans
* Post-Season 2 English dub Z fans
* Once English dub-Now Japanese version fans
* Japanese version fans who enjoy the dub as well
* English dub fans who enjoy the original as well
The Z fans who don't like Dragon Ball
* The DB/Z fans who don't like GT
The fans who like GT, but not the English dub
The English dub fans who like GT, but not the dub's music
The English dub fans who enjoy both the FUNimation and Ocean Group dubs
The Anti-FUNimation, Pro-Ocean Group fans
The Anti-FUNimation, Pro-Blue Water fans
The Anti-Ocean, Pro-FUNi fans
The Anti-Blue Water, Pro-FUNi fans
* The Dragon Box fans
The Season boxsets fans
The fans who enjoy both releases and would prefer to own either one if given the choice
The fans who enjoy the English dub with the Japanese music
The fans who enjoy Bruce Faulconer's music but hate the Japanese music

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:12 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Wasn't the show done radio/chorus style over in Japan?

I believe that most Japanese cartoons are done in post where the voices are dubbed in after the animation is completed.

However, most North American cartoons have the voices recorded before the animation and then any necessary changes to sync, additional voices, or grunts and whatnot for fight scenes are put in afterward.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:21 pm

I would fall into the categories of-

Japanese version fans
Once English dub-Now Japanese version fans
The fans who like GT, but not the English dub
The Dragon Box fans
The Season boxsets fans (yes I managed to change my opinion from long ago)

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:27 pm

Casual Matt wrote:I believe that most Japanese cartoons are done in post where the voices are dubbed in after the animation is completed.

However, most North American cartoons have the voices recorded before the animation and then any necessary changes to sync, additional voices, or grunts and whatnot for fight scenes are put in afterward.

I think you got that the other way around if I read that right, if I didn't I'm sorry. I remember reading interviews from seiyuu and they always talked about how they could never see the animation and how they had to sometimes recorded without even knowing what they were doing because the animation hadn't even been completed. Then I always read that anime VA's always looked at the footage.

I might have read wrong though

.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:31 pm

Yeah Men Suvari sounded not so great in KHII. Was better in AC.