An observation on Dragon Ball's English-speaking fanbases.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:13 am

Wait, Cap'n. I like being a Decepticon. I call Razorclaw.

Oh, and let me add on the topic that I don't have an issue with anyone's version preference. But if a discussion veers towards "opinion on some dub-related aspect" I will be candid. Sometimes people get defensive towards the show/actor/music they like when seeing it bashed and the come back with something, I respond, etc. Whoever has the least people involved in that given conversation on their "side" may be seen as a victim, but I really think that's just the nature of internet debate.

I also have a problem with changes being referred to as adaptation. A YYH dub/sub convo would, I imagine, involve much less controversy. Cuz the two shows aren't all that different. When I see a dub scene in which the entire tone and intent of the scene is 100% altered it irks the shit out of me. And when someone inevitably tells me it isn't that bad or it doesn't matter, I go through the roof. Honestly, "Is That Ok?" basically sums up my opinion of the dubbing pre-Buu Saga.

The other hot button topic seems to be the music. Again, I respect personal preference. I just hate the fractured nature the dub has created. You know what argument Cowboy Bebop fans DON'T have? Hell, we don't even have this fight in regards to original DB. I actually have a close friend who rips on the Japanese DBZ BGM, then watched DB on tv and went on and on about how much better the dub music is. DB, not Z. Yeah.
Sometimes, I'll admit, past exposure to dubbies colors my interactions. My least favorites are the hypocritical ones that were mentioned earlier. The ones that will go to war with you about the sanctity of the dub, the awesome that is Chris Sabat, the epicness of the Faulconer score, the suckiness of the Japanese score, and the girlie voices... and the do a 180 when talking about some other show (Naruto and One Piece come to mind). They're just as bad as the people who bash DB (and Yu-Gi-Oh! gets this too I've noticed) based on its shitty dub, and then go on and on about the indignity that was Sailor Moon or Card Captors in the US.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:27 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:
Chrono Trigger wrote:For years it's always been English dub vs Original. Go bots vs. the Transformers.
Fixed.

Yup, I just compared the FUNimation dub to the Go-bots, they both try so hard to be cool, and they both fail miserably.

I'm sorry, but I just have to post that I'm giving you a jumbo chocolate chip cookie for that.

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:04 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:
Chrono Trigger wrote:For years it's always been English dub vs Original. Go bots vs. the Transformers.
Fixed.

Yup, I just compared the FUNimation dub to the Go-bots, they both try so hard to be cool, and they both fail miserably.

Ugh, Go-bots, I found out about that a few years back, watched the first episode and vomited a rainbow.
It wasn't like other shows where it has a first episode and establishes who the heroes and villains are, this series seemed to start in the middle of that.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:26 pm

I watched that little gem first run. Not that it's anything to brag about...

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:20 pm

Kinda funny how when the mention of Sailor Moon, a lot of Sailor Moon fans actually like the dub music of season 1 and R. Even hear sub fans say they like changed music tand feel it mostly fits the scenes. They think the original music fits the scenes better but it fits. They even admit that the original songs were pretty ok. And thing I found out a few months ago, a lot of people still remember the dub theme. Didn't think too many remembered it, but was at shoot I was at, when it came on cd, about 30 or so cosplayers remembered every word and sang it.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:56 pm

Super Sonic wrote:Kinda funny how when the mention of Sailor Moon, a lot of Sailor Moon fans actually like the dub music of season 1 and R. Even hear sub fans say they like changed music tand feel it mostly fits the scenes. They think the original music fits the scenes better but it fits. They even admit that the original songs were pretty ok. And thing I found out a few months ago, a lot of people still remember the dub theme. Didn't think too many remembered it, but was at shoot I was at, when it came on cd, about 30 or so cosplayers remembered every word and sang it.

Let's not forget though that the dub theme for Sailor Moon actually kept the original tune. It was just the lyrics that were changed. Yes they were dumbed down in comparison to the original though. I still have the CD of the original dub vocals actually. Some songs I liked, some I didn't. And I still stand by my belief that "Oh Starry Night" is just a remix of the Canadian national anthem.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:58 pm

Actually, I would call the English Sailor Moon opening as more of a remixed version with different lyrics. Not quite exactly the same, but damn near close enough and kept the same beat.

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:58 pm

Tsukento wrote:Not quite exactly the same, but damn near close enough and kept the same beat.

I disagree on that. The English one only talks about Sailor Moon being a ultra-girlpower superhero with her friends "Sailor Venus (echo), Sailor Mars (echo), Sailor Mercury (echo), Sailor Jupiter" in comparison to the lyrics of Moonlight Densetsu which was about love and romance and only love and romance. And they change the OP in the last season anyway

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:13 pm

Vekurotto wrote:
Tsukento wrote:Not quite exactly the same, but damn near close enough and kept the same beat.
I disagree on that. The English one only talks about Sailor Moon being a ultra-girlpower superhero with her friends "Sailor Venus (echo), Sailor Mars (echo), Sailor Mercury (echo), Sailor Jupiter" in comparison to the lyrics of Moonlight Densetsu which was about love and romance and only love and romance. And they change the OP in the last season anyway

He or she did mention the changed lyrics. Remember in 1995, the thought was treat like any other cartoon. And the difference between US cartoon theme songs and Japanese ones are Japanese ones are about anything, including advertising for some band, while American cartoon themes with lyrics usually have something to do with the plot. Though still remember wishing around Androids saga that instead of Faulconer's theme song, they just did "Rock the Dragon" with new scenes similar to how Sailor Moon S did. For y'all who never seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkQhs2BrI5M

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:17 pm

There's actually someone else who liked Rock the Dragon!? I thought I was the only one

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:20 pm

Vekurotto wrote:I disagree on that. The English one only talks about Sailor Moon being a ultra-girlpower superhero with her friends "Sailor Venus (echo), Sailor Mars (echo), Sailor Mercury (echo), Sailor Jupiter" in comparison to the lyrics of Moonlight Densetsu which was about love and romance and only love and romance. And they change the OP in the last season anyway

Excuse me, but I believe you mean Sailor Venus, Sailor Mercury, Sailor Mars, Sailor Jupitor.

Thank you, carry on.

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:24 pm

Super Sonic wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkQhs2BrI5M

They did this one for the edited DVD and movie releases. On the uncut DVDs for the series and the movies they used the Sailor Moon S, SuperS, and the Movie OP animations with the dub themes. It doesn't work as well as Moonlight Densetsu though because the dub theme is about a minute, and the OPs are 1:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyoNs42plug http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfX1mpWthTo

Super Sonic wrote:He or she did mention the changed lyrics.

Maybe I just saw otherwise. I thought that Tsukento said that the English Sailor Moon theme was nearly the same thing as Moonlight Densetsu. If he didn't then my apologies.

Onikage725 wrote:Excuse me, but I believe you mean Sailor Venus, Sailor Mercury, Sailor Mars, Sailor Jupitor.

Thank you, carry on.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:04 pm

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:28 pm

Sorry, you just come across as being older that's all. And you mentioned you saw it before the dub premeired which was 12 years ago.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:28 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:You guys keep emphasizing again and again that you don’t care whether or not people here rip on the dub so long as they treat the respectful dub fans… er, respectfully. Well… that’s precisely what most everyone who posts here actually does.

My beef is more to do with the fact that every time the dub is even vaguely referenced, a completely off topic anti-dub rant ensues. Its not the personal attacks that I have a problem with, because I honestly haven't seen many of those. Its more the constant attempts of re-enforcing "the dub sucks" as fact that gets tiresome

No really, by all means keep making wild, completely baseless, couldn’t-be-further-off-the-mark-if-you-tried theories, assumptions, and wild guesses about who I am personally. Based on little more than a few posts I’ve made on a forum dedicated to a 20+ year old Japanese cartoon/comic strip I might add.

Maybe playing the victim ever so slightly?

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:23 pm

Kid Trunks wrote: My beef is more to do with the fact that every time the dub is even vaguely referenced, a completely off topic anti-dub rant ensues. Its not the personal attacks that I have a problem with, because I honestly haven't seen many of those. Its more the constant attempts of re-enforcing "the dub sucks" as fact that gets tiresome

The dub was mentioned, that aspect of it was brought into the discussion. To ignore aspects of the discussion because they could get someone upset is just not in the spirit of conversation and debate. Maybe there is something I do not get, being on the "other side" of the situation, but it seems to me that it's completely fair for people who think something about the dub sucks have the right to put that opinion out there without creating controversy.

If there are no personal insults, then...what's the problem here? It's in the flow of conversation. Maybe if you pointed out a specific example of the problem, we could try and see the point you're trying to make.

Maybe playing the victim ever so slightly?

Actually, he was just making a joke. It's funny how many incorrect guesses have come up. It was more in the spirit of making a joke than anything.

...

I laughed.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:36 pm

I don't mean in this thread. This thread is pretty much an "anything goes" thread, since we're talking about...well, anything about fandom.

Also, I was kidding too. Notice smiley face?

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:38 pm

Kid Trunks wrote:I don't mean in this thread. This thread is pretty much an "anything goes" thread, since we're talking about...well, anything about fandom.

Also, I was kidding too. Notice smiley face?

Eh.

Even now that I'm looking for it, the kidding is I guess a little hard to see. Sorry about that.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:52 pm

Post by **Herms** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:49 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:I’m not offended or upset or anything in the least bit (why would I be?)… it just goes to show the futility of trying to play psychic with someone that you don’t know from the man on the fucking moon.

Ah, no wonder you won't go for the dub: you're an extraterrestrial!