How strong do you think Nappa really is?

[Dayspring]

IIRC, from the point that Nappa arrives until he dies, he's seen at 5 different power levels: Whatever it is when he first arrives, the large boost he gets when he powers up to kill Tenshinhan and Chaozu, the increase intended to intimidate Goku, a small increase to launch a particular ki blast at Goku, and when he finally goes all out against Goku.

Now according to the daizenshuu, Nappa's PL is only in the 4,000s, despite how Goku admits -once Nappa is fully powered- that a fight with Nappa could last all day, and despite the fact that Goku's PL is over 8,000 and "not a threat" (according to Vegeta). Personally I always liked to think that they goofed when fact-checking and saw Goku's 5,000. They then took 4,000 to be Nappa's PL when he arrived on Earth and used his increases to boost him by only a few hundred.

For an in-story explanation, he was at 4,000 when he arrived, increased by 2,000-2,500 when he killed Tenshinhan, another 1,000 when he confronts Goku, another 100 or so for his powerful ki attack, and one more 1,000-1,500 when he finally goes all out. If Nappa went all out against everyone from the beginning instead of wasting strength all over the place because of his pride, I'd put Nappa in the 8,000s.


Sorry for the inevitable PL debates that will arise from this.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I agree with you, Dayspring. I think Nappa would have to be in the 8,000 power range for Goku to say what he said, and to be extremely cautious about takin Nappa's most powerful blast directly.

From the way everyone seemed so eager to take on Nappa in the beginning, and at how astonished they were at Nappa being able to withstand Krillin's Mega Blast without being damaged, I think his initial power level is around 3,000 or so. Once he powered-up to attack, and Piccolo stated he didn't think he would be so powerful, I believe he reach the 4,000 power range.

He was worried about Goku's 5,000 power level, so Nappa is likely still weaker at that point. We know what takes place when Goku arrives, but Vegeta even stated Goku was beatable if Nappa stopped acting like an idiot, so he obviously knows Nappa is capable of doing well against an "over 8,000" power level, or he wouldn't have said so.

So with all that, I would have to say he's 8,000 or so.

[Herms]

The only problem with that is that Vegeta says he didn't learn the trick of controlling one's battle power until he encountered Goku and the others on Earth, so presumably Nappa couldn't do it either. Though that leaves it unexplained just what Nappa is doing all those times when he generates an aura.

[Rocketman]

I would put both him and Vegeta lower than 4,000 when they first arrive. Note that despite standing a few feet from him, nobody picks up on Vegeta's (or Nappa's) strength. Piccolo only figures out Vegeta's (kinda) when he yells at Nappa and Nappa obeys.

So, Nappa arrives at resting power level maybe as low as the one thousands. He powers up to the 4,000s, enough to wreck Tien and overpower any of Earth's fighters one-on-one, but still take a good bit of damage, especially from Piccolo and a Gohan rage burst. He wigs out over Goku's 5000 reading at this point.

Goku arrives and powers up to over 8000. Nappa freaks the hell out and blindly attacks. Goku punts him away, then Nappa powers up to the 6000s (I suspect he was still thinking the scouter reading was a mistake). Goku knocks him around again, and Nappa powers up again (8000-ish), fires a big attack ("Gigantic Storm" in the PS2 games, I think) then immediately goes to hand-to-hand with Goku, resulting in a draw. This is where Goku says 'this could take all day' (Vegeta too, actually).

Nappa should be a little weaker than Goku, because Goku was able to block his ultimate attack at close range.

The only problem with that is that Vegeta says he didn't learn the trick of controlling one's battle power until he encountered Goku and the others on Earth, so presumably Nappa couldn't do it either. Though that leaves it unexplained just what Nappa is doing all those times when he generates an aura.

My Viz translation says "how to conceal my true power!" (emphasis mine).

So, Nappa could control it, raising and lowering, but if you turned a scouter on him, it would always read, say, ~8000, unless he trained or slacked off or something like that.

What Vegeta learns is how to actually hide his power from the scouter (which probably carries with it some more experience in fine ki control, but Vegeta's not the kind of guy to bother with that).

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

The only problem with that is that Vegeta says he didn't learn the trick of controlling one's battle power until he encountered Goku and the others on Earth, so presumably Nappa couldn't do it either. Though that leaves it unexplained just what Nappa is doing all those times when he generates an aura.

I think Vegeta meant more along the lines of controlling as in suppressing, or using what power was suitable for the battle. We see him power-up against Goku, who was astonished by the power, and the same with Nappa. So while they couldn't suppress their power, they had the ability to increase said power through various power-up's.

That's how I see it, anyway.

[Forgotten Hero]

I always thought his power went up to around 8000.
Agreed!

[Horgus]

In the 8000 area at full tilt, half that when dealing with the Earth-trash.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

My Viz translation says "how to conceal my true power!" (emphasis mine).

The original line is 「戦闘力のコントロールをだ！」 (sentô ryoku no kontoro-ru o da!), which is "to control my battle power!"

[Cypher]

To be devil's advocate here, could 'control' not be construed as meaning 'conceal'? I mean, in the sense of 'controlling' it to look like less than it actually was

Alternatively, Vegeta may simply not have considered his previous use of power to be 'controlled'; it was simply either used or not used to whatever degree he employed it. It's like if I punch someone, it's not really 'controlling my power', it's just using it. If I punch someone hard or softly, it just depends on how much power I employ; I suppose that's 'control' in one sense, but only very basically speaking. Thus the later 'control' he developed is in a more nuanced sense, such as in this case being able to 'conceal' it...I dunno, just random thoughts

Personally I reckon that if Nappa had a power of 8000, a scouter reading of him would always read 8000; just because he isn't currently employing said power does not mean that it's not the power his body contains. All the instances of 'powering up' we see are just him actually employing more of the power he possesses....well, that's just my opinion.

[Monkey D. Goku]

It seems to me that Nappa and Vegeta could not change their battle power. Their powers are stuck at around 8,000 and 18,000 respectively. When they "power up" it seems more like getting the chi flowing (kind of like getting the blood pumping) or making their chi bigger.

During the Freeza arc, Freeza in his Third Suppression "powers up." Kuririn says "I.... never.........even....imagined......" (sort of like the comment Piccolo made about the amount of power Nappa had), and Piccolo says, "The huge chi waxes even greater!!! Freeza must be about to fight!!!!!!."

After Freeza transforms his chi is stated to get stronger. Later after Gohan attacks Freeza (Second Suppression), Freeza "powers up" again, only this time Gohan and Vegeta deliver these comments:

Gohan: "I-It can't be...His chi is getting even stronger...!!"
Vegeta: "Th-that means...He can control his battle strength...?!"

Why would Vegeta have only noticed then that Freeza could control his battle power, if Freeza's earlier power up had in fact made him stronger?

Going by these quotes there seems to be a difference between making one's chi larger and making one's chi stronger. The ability to make one's chi stronger or weaker seems to be the ability to control one's battle power, where as making one's chi larger seems to be more of something anyone who uses chi can do.

(All quotes from the Viz manga)

[omegacwa]

As most people have said, between 8000 and 9000. Strong enough to go hand to hand with Goku not using Kaio-Ken.

[kei17]

There are some jokes of Nappa in Japan.

- He blasted off a city because everyone in that city were already infected with serious plague. He actually relieved the people.
- He cut off Tien's arm because his arm had been eroded by incurable malignancy. Only great Nappa knew it.
- He tried to kill a venom insect flying around Gohan, but Piccolo, also trying to kill it, unfortunately become involved in Nappa's benevolent attack.
- In the original manga and anime, Goku beats Nappa easily, but actually that was totally Nappa's acting. Foolish Kakarot never knew it.
- It looks like stupid Vegeta killed Nappa, but behold! He escaped in ultrafast speed.
- Nappa was already SSJ2 in that time because He draped holy sparks.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

To be devil's advocate here, could 'control' not be construed as meaning 'conceal'? I mean, in the sense of 'controlling' it to look like less than it actually was

I was just pointing out that VIZ's translation wasn't exactly literal.

- Nappa was already SSJ2 in that time because He draped holy sparks.

Ha! We have that same joke over here. He gets called "LSSJ" (Legendary Super Saiyan) Nappa. The other one I've heard is that after he was "killed" by Vegeta, he grew hair and became Mr. Satan. ^.^

[Cypher]

Yeah, I know- I was just trying to get the two versions to mesh is all

[SSJmole]

Stronger than Mr Popo but weaker than SSJGogeta.

[Joey Batz]

I don't think Nappa was at 8,000. The fact of the matter is that Vegeta and Nappa couldn't raise or suppress (or conceal) their power levels. No one in Frieza's empire could. That's made pretty clear throughout the Saiyan and Frieza Sagas. So whatever his power level was, it was the whole time. He wasn't raising and lowering it like the Z-fighters were.

As for what his power level actually was, I never liked 4,000 or 8,000. 8,000 puts him almost even with Goku, which he was clearly not. Yeah, Goku says "This could take forever", but I don't think he was going all out (no matter how long the battle dragged on, he wasn't going to pull out a Kaioken x4). Throughout the fight, he sounds like he's training Nappa, patronizing him without even realizing it ("Yeah, you're doing much better this time").

4,000 is also too low. Piccolo was at 3,500, correct? Yet Nappa dispatches him easily. Two shots total, I think. Raditz had more of an advantage over Goku, but he didn't have that easy a time.

So what was Nappa's power level? Well, his OFFICIAL power level is 4,000, I believe, because that's what the Daizenshuu says. I prefer 6,000, midway between Piccolo (who he "pwned") and Goku (who "pwned" him). With this PL, the difference between Nappa and Piccolo would be greater than that of Goku and Nappa, thus justifying how Nappa could take Piccolo out with one or two hits while Goku had to actually buckle down and fight for a couple seconds.

As for what the deal with Nappa powering up is, I think there is a difference between raising (or UNconcealing) your power level and revving up.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Piccolo was at 3,500, correct?

Yes, that's his Daizenshuu 7 battle power, anyway. But that's too high. Piccolo claimed that Gohan was stronger than himself when he focused, and Gohan's highest power rating at that point was 2800. So, at most, I would say Piccolo probably had a power of 2500.

[Dayspring]

Piccolo was at 3,500, correct?

Yes, that's his Daizenshuu 7 battle power, anyway. But that's too high. Piccolo claimed that Gohan was stronger than himself when he focused, and Gohan's highest power rating at that point was 2800. So, at most, I would say Piccolo probably had a power of 2500.

When did Piccolo say that. That's an excellent point to disproove the daizenshuu, but it doesn't ring a bell. Was this in book 18 or 19?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Piccolo stated this in #19 of the manga. It was when they were about to attack Nappa with their plan to weaken him by his tail.

The fact of the matter is that Vegeta and Nappa couldn't raise or suppress (or conceal) their power levels. No one in Freeza's empire could.

Except Ginyu stated he had the ability to raise his power.

Any of them could power-up, but they just couldn't suppress their powers. When Vegeta powered-up, Goku stated he had incredible chi, and the same was stated when Nappa powered-up. Piccolo said he never imagined his power was that great, so we know they can increase their power, but only to a certain point.

I think it's just mainly them going into their "battle ready" form, if anything

[Horgus]

They can go from a 'low power' state to their 'full power state' and back again, and that's about it.

Whereas Ginyu and others can suppress their power at will so as to gain a tactical advantage.