How strong was King Vegeta/Saiyan Elite?

[Dayspring]

Was it ever mentioned how powerful King Vegeta was in one of the other daizenshuu, or the Landmark or any other official source? We know Vegeta surpassed him while still a kid (so well beneath 18,000), but I'm curious to know how powerful he is compared to other Saiyans, since we only know what the average Low Level Saiyan is (1,200), not the average Saiyan in general.

What do you think the Saiyan classes are? I think it goes like this:

Low Level/Third Class Saiyan: 1-1,500
Mid Level/Second Class Saiyan: 1,501-5,000
Elite/First Class Saiyan: Above 5,000
Super Elite: Simply the upper crust of the Elite Saiyans. If it is PL sensitive, it's anything above 10,000.

Because of Bardock's PL, another possibility I was toying with was the following:

-Low Level:
Third Class Saiyan: 1-1,500 or 1-2,500
Middle Class Saiyan: 1,501 or 2,501-10,000
-Elite:
First Class Saiyan: Above 10,000
Super Elite: Simply the upper crust of the Elite Saiyans. Not PL sensitive.

To explain why Nappa couldn't defeat Goku (ie: Nappa = weaker than "over 8,000"), either his age (in the 50s) and/or the fact that he took tons of powerful blows prior to finally going all out resulted in a significant decrease in PL.

[Herms]

As far as I know, nothing is ever mentioned beyond the fact that he was no match for first-form Freeza.

Are "Mid Class Saiyans" ever mentioned in the series? I don't think I've ever heard that term.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I think he would only be around 9,000 or so. It's funny how Freeza mentioned he won without the need of his transformation, and he said it like it was a surprise to him.

I think Kid Vegeta would've been around 9,500 or 10,000 when he surpassed him, and it would make sense, since his next wall of power is 18,000.

[Dayspring]

As far as I know, nothing is ever mentioned beyond the fact that he was no match for first-form Freeza.

Are "Mid Class Saiyans" ever mentioned in the series? I don't think I've ever heard that term.

Nope. Just Low Level/Third Class, Elite and Super Elite. There must be some kind of middle class, though. All societies do, and it makes sense for there in the case of the Saiyan hierarchy as well. Radditz and Goku are Third Class Saiyans, while the elite are clearly the upper class. If there's a class beneath and above the norm, that means the norm must comprise of at least one social class (like how there are poor, rich, and middle class in economic societies).

That's why I gave two examples: I can see the Saiyans having a society based on the premise that "you're either the strongest or you're not," thus resulting in only Low Level and Elite Saiyans, but if Radditz and Goku make up the dregs, then there must be a level between them and the Elite.

[Forgotten Hero]

Some medics say in the Bardock Special that Bardock's power level was almost 10,000. "He is as strong as King Vegeta."
It could be implied in that sort of context.

[Tweaker]

Logically, wouldn't the class of Saiyan be determined based on power level from birth? I think Goku had a power level of 2, compared to Broly who had a power level of, like, 10,000 or so. If not, I'm willing to reckon it's somehow based on the family line you're born in.

If there's a concrete, established, official way that Saiyans were classed that I'm unaware of, though, do let me know. I'm just trying to brainstorm a couple of ideas.

[Forgotten Hero]

Logically, wouldn't the class of Saiyan be determined based on power level from birth? I think Goku had a power level of 2, compared to Broly who had a power level of, like, 10,000 or so. If not, I'm willing to reckon it's somehow based on the family line you're born in.

If there's a concrete, established, official way that Saiyans were classed that I'm unaware of, though, do let me know. I'm just trying to brainstorm a couple of ideas.

I think that is exactly it when it comes to class.
Bardock is a lower class Saiyajin, but he might have been the strongest Saiyajin at the time.

[Herms]

Logically, wouldn't the class of Saiyan be determined based on power level from birth?

That's what Vegeta tells Goku before they fight. Presumably in most cases the power at birth would give a good indication of what their potential was, but there would be some exceptions (like Barduck and Goku). This is consistent with the fact that Barduck was still counted as a low-level warrior despite being stronger than an elite like Nappa.

[Yi Xing Long]

After Freeza says that he killed Vegeta's father without needing to transform, Vegeta stated that he was more powerful than his father at that moment as a child. This was in the manga.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Logically, wouldn't the class of Saiyan be determined based on power level from birth?

That's what Vegeta tells Goku before they fight. Presumably in most cases the power at birth would give a good indication of what their potential was, but there would be some exceptions (like Barduck and Goku). This is consistent with the fact that Barduck was still counted as a low-level warrior despite being stronger than an elite like Nappa.

In light of that than Saiyan royalty can be reduced to the low-level class. Table is a fine example of this unless he was sent away because of the lack of desire/ability to fight instead of what the Scouter indicated at birth.

[ItsAllGood]

As a thought, where does the original SSJ fit into the hierarchy? Saiyan ancestry as a whole should not have been able to produce a child with a PL high enough to initiate the transformation to SSJ, (that is, a PL in the high hundred's of thousand's,) even into adulthood.

Now this would also beg the question, exactly how powerful would the original SSJ of legend have been in order to transform?
(This is obviously assuming that ancient saiyans were relatively weak, but steadily progressing up until the arrival of Goku and company)

Would he have been from the top ranks, or just a gifted lower class, like Goku?

[Captain Awesome]

The only thing we know about what the required power level for Super Saiya-jin is that Goku was in the millions when he transformed.

[Saiyan-Professor]

As a thought, where does the original SSJ fit into the hierarchy? Saiyan ancestry as a whole should not have been able to produce a child with a PL high enough to initiate the transformation to SSJ, (that is, a PL in the high hundred's of thousand's,) even into adulthood.

Now this would also beg the question, exactly how powerful would the original SSJ of legend have been in order to transform?
(This is obviously assuming that ancient saiyans were relatively weak, but steadily progressing up until the arrival of Goku and company)

Would he have been from the top ranks, or just a gifted lower class, like Goku?

I always pondered on this issue and what I came up with was in accordance with all the stories provided in the series, they did not they did not acquire their Scouter, technology until much later then if that was the case the combat power readings was not even an equation. Even though they lacked Scouters, the anime timeline states that:

Around 239 Before Age: The appearance of the Super Saiya-jin, considered a legend among the Saiya-jin. He made the universe tremble with destruction and slaughter.

Therefore, they did have space travel or some sort for the Legendary super Saiyan “made the universe tremble with destruction and slaughter.” I figured that the first Super Saiyan was someone like Bardock who achieved his power through combat or someone that had a leg up where power is concerned like Vegeta or his father and made the necessary advancement through combat. It would also make sense to me that it was achieved through the Ôzaru transformation into the Ôgon Ôzaru (if you hold to the filler and GT).

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I doubt there is a specific level you need to be on before transforming. SSJ Kid Trunks was about equal to base Future Gohan, using one arm no less; so his power level had to have been incredibly low for a SSJ at that point.

[Dayspring]

The only thing we know about what the required power level for Super Saiya-jin is that Goku was in the millions when he transformed.

Which wasn't even the case for the first SSJ. His untransformed PL was well beneath 180,000. Less than 90,000 if you go by the daizenshuu, and arguably even less than 60,000 if you feel Ginyu and Jeice's comments can still apply to Saiyans from 1,000 years ago.

We've seen time and time again that SSJ is triggered by rage, not power. Meanwhile, the daizenshuu explains it as experiencing extreme rage once you've already surpassed your potential. That explains why Bardock didn't go SSJ, why Goku didn't go SSJ in the Piccolo saga, why Gohan didn't go SSJ when Piccolo died, and why Vegeta didn't go SSJ until his three years of training.

It could also explain why Trunks and Goten achieved SSJ so easily: Trunks, being a spoilled brat, would have lost control of his emotions more easily than his future counterpart. With post-Cell Vegeta as his sensei and gravity training at his disposal, he would have surpassed his potentially much sooner as well. Meanwhile, Goten would have probably had a very low potential -being in the family line of Low Level Saiyans- and quickly surpassed his potential as a result of his frequent battles with Trunks.

[Dayspring]

I doubt there is a specific level you need to be on before transforming. SSJ Kid Trunks was about equal to base Future Gohan, using one arm no less; so his power level had to have been incredibly low for a SSJ at that point.

The manga shows otherwise: Kid Trunks' #17 and #18 are far stronger than future Trunks' androids. Meanwhile SSJ Kid Trunks almost killed #18 by accident because of how (annoyingly) powerful he was, whereas SSJ Future Gohan was slaughtered by Future #17. SSJ Future Trunks can hold his own against both androids from his timeline. Meanwhile, he's significantly weaker than Kid Trunks' #18.

[Terra-jin]

The only thing we know about what the required power level for Super Saiya-jin is that Goku was in the millions when he transformed.

Wasn't it stated by the narrator in the manga that "Goku now had the potential to become a Super Saiyan" when he finished his training in 100G? Goku himself comments that he feels strangely calm. It's this newfound calm he later refers to, as in losing your calm to become a Super Saiyan. IMO, this means that anger is the key to become a Super Saiyan, but only if that anger is experienced from an unusual (perhaps unnatural?) state of calmness.
Before his 100G training, Goku didn't yet experience that strange calmness, hence the reason why he didn't go SSj earlier. Now, this state of calmness is reached after a certain amount of training, which could be interpreted as a base powerlevel one must reach to achieve the calm state of mind.

I have a different take on this, which I elaborated on in a previous thread. It's about the 'zenkai' powerup: it reveals, step by step, a measure of a person's hidden potential. When all this hidden potential is released, i.e. you've used up all your zenkais, you reach your maximum power (your natural amount, anyway) and this brings about the calmness. So, after your last zenkai, you have the ability to go SSj.
It makes sense, because we know that Goku completely abused the zenkai during his 100G training. After a while, he not only became über-powerful, he also reached the pinnacle of his natural power as a Saiyan - after this he was ready for the next step.

[omegacwa]

Here is a question. If Freeza had killed Krillin right after Goku arrived on Namek, would he have transformed?

[Terra-jin]

I believe so, yes, because by then, Goku was ready to become an SSj.

Oh, I just found an inconsistency in my theory After Goku landed on Namek, he still had one more zenkai, from when he was beaten by Ginyu, Vegeta etcetera and eventually healed from that in Freeza recuperation tank. He was much stronger after that than when he finished his 100G training, wasn't he?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I doubt there is a specific level you need to be on before transforming. SSJ Kid Trunks was about equal to base Future Gohan, using one arm no less; so his power level had to have been incredibly low for a SSJ at that point.

The manga shows otherwise: Kid Trunks' #17 and #18 are far stronger than future Trunks' androids. Meanwhile SSJ Kid Trunks almost killed #18 by accident because of how (annoyingly) powerful he was, whereas SSJ Future Gohan was slaughtered by Future #17. SSJ Future Trunks can hold his own against both androids from his timeline. Meanwhile, he's significantly weaker than Kid Trunks' #18.

But that wasn't my point, though. SSJ Kid Trunks looked tired just sparring with one arm base Future Gohan, so there's no telling what his base power was before he transforms into the SSJ form. I just wanted to say there isn't, or I doubt your level has to reach a certain threshold before you transform.

I also disagree with the Android counterparts thing. If the Androids were using less then half their power against SSJ Gohan, they would do the same to SSJ Trunks, or possibly a bit more, like half against him. Even when Trunks returns, #17 believes #18 is powerful enough to crush Trunks on her own, which shouldn't be, since he supposedly put up a good fight against them.

They had no reason to take Trunks seriously, and the fact that Cell knows he's powerful enough to trap the Androids and absorb them tells me he's going off of similiar data via spy robots from his timeline.