Super Saiyan transformation page

[JulieYBM]

Goku is the first to go through the transformation into a Super Saiyan. It is widely speculated that the Sentô Ryoku ("combat strength," or if you must, "power level") of the character must be around 180,000, which Goku reaches on Namek; this cannot be confirmed or denied, however (it's merely speculation). The transformation into a Super Saiyan is generally caused by an overwhelming sense of rage and hatred.

Frankly, I've not a clue as to when this was originally written but would not it make more sense to say three million, if not at least mention that at that time Son's power was on such a level?

Hope I'm not stepping on any toes by posting this.

[Forgotten Hero]

Goku is the first to go through the transformation into a Super Saiyan. It is widely speculated that the Sentô Ryoku ("combat strength," or if you must, "power level") of the character must be around 180,000, which Goku reaches on Namek; this cannot be confirmed or denied, however (it's merely speculation). The transformation into a Super Saiyan is generally caused by an overwhelming sense of rage and hatred.

Frankly, I've not a clue as to when this was originally written but would not it make more sense to say three million, if not at least mention that at that time Son's power was on such a level?

Hope I'm not stepping on any toes by posting this.

Goku's power was around 180k (without using the Kaio-Ken). Goku was probably way above 3 million when using the Kaio-Ken.
But I still agree with what the Transformation Guide currently states.

By the way, Zarbon never got his own little section on the guide. I know Mike is busy with life, so I'm not expecting some material to be posted any time soon.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

His power rating was 180,000 only when using the Kaiô-Ken. The figure of 3,000,000 comes from Daizenshuu (this is after Goku is healed before the fight with Freeza, hence the power up).

[Forgotten Hero]

His power rating was 180,000 only when using the Kaiô-Ken. The figure of 3,000,000 comes from Daizenshuu (this is after Goku is healed before the fight with Freeza, hence the power up).

Wrong, in volume 8 of the viz Ginyu says 180k and Goku says he won't even use the Kaioken on him yet.

[Captain Awesome]

Wrong, in volume 8 of the viz Ginyu says 180k and Goku says he won't even use the Kaioken on him yet.

Goku actually says something along the lines of "and for a moment I can raise my strength even higher than this" (in the anime anyway) Goku is at this point using the Kaio ken, there is no getting around that fact. (the Kaio-ken aura in the manga and the anime is kind of a give-away )

I think what they were getting at on the Super Saiya-jin transformation page is that at the very least, someone has to be over 180,000 as this was the last stated battle power for Goku.

However we do know because of Freeza's dialogue, that Goku was in the millions when he transformed.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

His power rating was 180,000 only when using the Kaiô-Ken. The figure of 3,000,000 comes from Daizenshuu (this is after Goku is healed before the fight with Freeza, hence the power up).

Wrong, in volume 8 of the viz Ginyu says 180k and Goku says he won't even use the Kaioken on him yet.

No, he said that what he did was nothing compared to when he used his power in bursts or whatever. Or did you miss the part where Goku said "Kaiô-Ken!" aloud? (I think you're thinking of Goku saying he wouldn't use the Kaiô-Ken yet to Nappa.)

[Herms]

You know, I can't say I've heard heard this piece of speculation. Has it just gone out of fashion?

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

I remember folks used to say "You've gotta have a power of at least 300,000 to transform!" (from the old mistranslation of Goku's battle power of 3,000,000 in Daizenshuu 7), but I haven't seen anyone say that in a few years.

[Onikage725]

I'm pretty sure the 180k happened after Goku used Kaio-ken. In which case, based on that, it should probably read 90k (which would be his unaltered base at the time).

[Terra-jin]

If we want to go by what the manga states, the ability to become a SSj came for Goku after his 100.G training. Since Goku was probably using the standard amount of Kaio-ken (x2), his base power should be 90,000 indeed. Since this, Goku rose to 3 million (according to the Daizenshuu) because of the powerup he received after healing from the whole Ginyu fight.

However, it's not just his power that enabled the SSj transformation. The SSj requires a calm heart - its contrast with anger then triggers SSj. After Goku finishes his 100.G training, he remarks that he's suddenly become much calmer than usual. It's a feeling that Goku was completely unfamiliar with before, as he says he doesn't understand why he's so calm when he's about to face so many powerful beings on Namek. It's this state of mind that I like to call the "ready for SSj"-state.

Now, something in his 100.G training or his newfound power of 90,000 apparently has triggered Goku's ready-state. At first I thought it had to do with Goku's abuse of the Saiyan recovery powerup, but he underwent another one after the Ginyu fight. Perhaps it was the prospect of fighting the strongest being in the Universe that pushed his Saiyan love for fighting over its limits.

In closing, I'd like to conclude that being ready for Super Saiyan constitutes more than just a level of power.

[SSj_Rambo]

In closing, I'd like to conclude that being ready for Super Saiyan constitutes more than just a level of power.

That's what I stress the most. To me, it's pretty obvious that you don't need a certain level of strength to ascend to Super Saiya-jin. Trunks (prior to transforming for the first time) definitely could not have been at the same level as Goku on Planet Namek. The same can be said for Vegeta.

[SSJ2bardock]

So Goku was actually weaker than Ginyu without the kaioken? Trippy

[Forgotten Hero]

No, he said that what he did was nothing compared to when he used his power in bursts or whatever. Or did you miss the part where Goku said "Kaiô-Ken!" aloud? (I think you're thinking of Goku saying he wouldn't use the Kaiô-Ken yet to Nappa.)

You're right, thanks so much.

[Onikage725]

So Goku was actually weaker than Ginyu without the kaioken? Trippy

Yup. But Ginyu wouldn't know the difference. Technically, Goku could easily crank it up to 900k, and push it as far as 1.8 mil at that point. So the Ginyu fight was really futile and served only to help Goku get another power up. Ginyu couldn't possibly cope with Goku, who could (with Kaio-ken) make himself around as strong as second and third form Freeza. But, not knowing Kaio-ken, Goku's body would yield him less power than his own (though in the long run, I'm sure he could have benefited from Saiyan physiology).

[JulieYBM]

So Goku was actually weaker than Ginyu without the kaioken? Trippy

Yup. But Ginyu wouldn't know the difference. Technically, Goku could easily crank it up to 900k, and push it as far as 1.8 mil at that point. So the Ginyu fight was really futile and served only to help Goku get another power up. Ginyu couldn't possibly cope with Goku, who could (with Kaio-ken) make himself around as strong as second and third form Freeza. But, not knowing Kaio-ken, Goku's body would yield him less power than his own (though in the long run, I'm sure he could have benefited from Saiyan physiology).

Third form Freeza was never given a battle reading, was he?

[Dayspring]

So Goku was actually weaker than Ginyu without the kaioken? Trippy

Yup. But Ginyu wouldn't know the difference. Technically, Goku could easily crank it up to 900k, and push it as far as 1.8 mil at that point. So the Ginyu fight was really futile and served only to help Goku get another power up. Ginyu couldn't possibly cope with Goku, who could (with Kaio-ken) make himself around as strong as second and third form Freeza. But, not knowing Kaio-ken, Goku's body would yield him less power than his own (though in the long run, I'm sure he could have benefited from Saiyan physiology).

Third form Freeza was never given a battle reading, was he?

No. All we know for sure is that it's significantly greater than 1 million.

[Onikage725]

Third form Freeza was never given a battle reading, was he?

Correct. We know form 2 was "over 1 million," and form 4 started off at 3 million before the 50% charge. So form 3 was anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 million, most likely.

[Dayspring]

Third form Freeza was never given a battle reading, was he?

Correct. We know form 2 was "over 1 million," and form 3 started off at 3 million before the 50% charge. So form 3 was anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 million, most likely.

....What?

[SSJ2bardock]

Third form Freeza was never given a battle reading, was he?

Correct. We know form 2 was "over 1 million," and form 3 started off at 3 million before the 50% charge. So form 3 was anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 million, most likely.

....What?

Third form Freeza's power level

1.5 million < Third Form < 2.5 million

that make more sense?

[Onikage725]

Sorry, I wrote form 3 in that post instead of 4. It's fixed now. Make more sense?