Vegeta's second year in the RoSaT

[Li'l Lemmy]

Does anyone have that episode on DVD?

Piccolo: I don't think there's any mistake that they were Super Saiyans. However, they must have trained so that they can maintain themselves like that as if it were their usual, everyday form.

Trunks: T-then, when they fight, they go through another, more extraordinary transformation?

Vegeta: What are you, an idiot? . . . apparently, you haven't reconsidered anything, have you? Kakarrot has judged that state to be best. Once re-training yourself so that it is your usual state, you can get away with raising your battle power while only placing a slight burden on your body. He sure thought that through!


~Da Lemmy

[loney123]

This is what I imagine in my head.

Goku uses 50% power of his FPSSj form.
Vegeta is shocked, stunned and extremely pissed off that Goku has surpassed him once again. I'll set Vegeta at 40%.
Vegeta then trains for another year, and comes out all confident, and even says at the tournament that he'll defeat Cell, not Goku. Hitting Vegeta at around 60% of Gokus full power.

It's a shame though. Considering how hard and how much Vegeta trains and he's always one step behind. That's like revising for a test for 6 weeks, while someone else only revised for 2 and he still done much better than you.

[Saiyan-Professor]

.....Vegeta: What are you, an idiot? . . . apparently, you haven't reconsidered anything, have you? Kakarrot has judged that state to be best. Once re-training yourself so that it is your usual state, you can get away with raising your battle power while only placing a slight burden on your body. He sure thought that through!

~Da Lemmy

Oh, my god that sounds so Son Gohanish, that is not the Vegeta I know; I prefer the dub in this instance.

Vegeta's RoSaT training, however, takes place after "zenkai" is no longer applicable to the Saiyan physiology, so of course he won't make the massive gains training alone that Goku did in training the same way.

Sorry to go a little off-topic, but I thought that receiving "zenkai's" after a brutal battle was a basic element of Saiyan physiology? How would it disappear or become obsolete?

Because while zenkais played such a massive role in the story up until then, they completely disappeared after Super Saiyan was introduced. The story implied as such, and one of the non-Daizenshuu guidebooks from Shueisha even said so. It seems likely that the two were a means to an end, with Super Saiyan actually being the "end goal" of the zenkai system.

Actually, the truth of the matter is that the near death power ups did not disappear. Herms said that:

Daizenshuu 7's battle power chart, which says that after the battle with Freeza, the power-ups Saiyans got from near-death experiences became small/scarce (the word used in Japanese could mean either), but that Fusion and other transformations increased Goku and co.'s battle powers to the point that they couldn't be measured numerically. It's essentially an explanation of why there are no battle power numbers for post-Freeza stuff.

[Kaboom]

Actually, the truth of the matter is that the near death power ups did not disappear. Herms said that:

Daizenshuu 7's battle power chart, which says that after the battle with Freeza, the power-ups Saiyans got from near-death experiences became small/scarce (the word used in Japanese could mean either), but that Fusion and other transformations increased Goku and co.'s battle powers to the point that they couldn't be measured numerically. It's essentially an explanation of why there are no battle power numbers for post-Freeza stuff.

Yeah, someone brought it up in another thread, too. Either way, if by becoming "scarce" or "small" implies they went back to the normal, pre-Namek size and rate, then they'd still end up almost just about compared to merely improving Super Saiyan.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Actually, the truth of the matter is that the near death power ups did not disappear. Herms said that:

Daizenshuu 7's battle power chart, which says that after the battle with Freeza, the power-ups Saiyans got from near-death experiences became small/scarce (the word used in Japanese could mean either), but that Fusion and other transformations increased Goku and co.'s battle powers to the point that they couldn't be measured numerically. It's essentially an explanation of why there are no battle power numbers for post-Freeza stuff.

Yeah, someone brought it up in another thread, too. Either way, if by becoming "scarce" or "small" implies they went back to the normal, pre-Namek size and rate, then they'd still end up almost just about compared to merely improving Super Saiyan.

Every ounce of extra power helps regardless of how little when your life is at stake against a stronger opponent, yeah it may not have been small or scarce but it is still an increase. From what we see in Dragonball GT their base combat strength increased quit a bit.