Opinion of Sabat?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
User avatar
Gozar
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:18 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Post by Gozar » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:15 am

Captain Awesome wrote:I spot checked the dub in the Cell and Boo arcs last time I went through the series, the moronic heroic speeches, nonsensical re-writes, sub-par acting and terrible music are all still there, sure the bar was raised a little, but the problems still remain.
Spot Checked? Well at least you're honest. :P

Music aside, everything you named there were severely toned down post Garlic Jr.

Saago
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:30 pm

Post by Saago » Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:30 am

*Buzz*...Wrong-o buddy. The characters were created by Akira Toriyama. The only true-ness to the character is what Toriyama writes down. He did not choose Horikawa as Vegeta. A director did. Just because this director came from Japan and worked on the series doesn't mean he has a more legit opinion on how a character should sound. How a character should sound is subjective. Original does not mean true or correct. It just means he was the first.
If you are watching the anime of Dragon Ball, you are watching a product created by Toei (based on the story of Akira Toriyama), and therefore when it comes to the anime of Dragon Ball the characters become their characters (not Funimation's), and therefore the decisions on how characters should sound are theirs (not Funimation's). You don't like the adaptation Toei did of the original manga and how they brought some of the characters to life? Well, too bad. Still, that doesn't give Funimation the right to "improve" anything. Appearently now dubbing companies have the right to completely change a character if they think the way the original sounds is not appropriate? Are we crazy?

And indeed my example is like yours. You said voicing a character is very subjective and that Gokuh could very well have had a different voice. Of course. If he had had a different voice, then that's the way he should sound (or at least act and emote) when being dubbed to another language. And Vegeta could have been a different character, and that's they way he should be in the English dub. So what? Thing is, it happens that Gokuh has Nozawa's voice, and Vegeta has Horikawa's voice, and Vegeta is how he is. Speculating how they could have sound if, if, if, if, if whatever is absurd. They sound the way they sound. Period. And that's how they should be portrayed. It's not Funimation's work to analyse if the characters have been adapted accuarately. Besides, do you actually think that's the reason why all the freakin' characters in the dub sound different? The only reason Vegeta and Piccolo sound like that in the dub is they didn't want poor little kids to get confused. Having a bad guy sounding like a perfectly normal person? A green alien with a human, natural voice? They wouldn't understand!

One more thing. Using your logic, if the anime of Dragon Ball were a completely original series (not based on a manga), then Sabat's Vegeta would be intolerable because Vegeta would have been originally created by Toei? Then butchering characters of a series/movie based on a comic/book is acceptable because they are not actually their characters?

User avatar
Captain Awesome
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 2653
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:31 am
Location: Australia, Planet Earth

Post by Captain Awesome » Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:34 am

Gozar wrote:
Captain Awesome wrote:I spot checked the dub in the Cell and Boo arcs last time I went through the series, the moronic heroic speeches, nonsensical re-writes, sub-par acting and terrible music are all still there, sure the bar was raised a little, but the problems still remain.
Spot Checked? Well at least you're honest. :P
By that I mean after watching an episode, I would rewind and watch a few scenes with the dub track on, I honestly can't sit through an entire episode.

User avatar
Herms
Kanzenshuu Admin Emeritus
Posts: 10550
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: Jupiter
Contact:

Post by Herms » Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:02 am

Gozar wrote:No, it's not how they're "supposed" to sound. A voice for a character is a very subjective thing. It Masako Nozawa never auditioned for Goku then Goku could have a completely different voice. A voice choice for a character is the combination of the director and actor.
Well in Nozawa's case, Toriyama personally picked her out, and said that while drawing the manga he imagined Goku speaking in her voice, and that he couldn't imagine anyone else voicing Goku.
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.

User avatar
Tsukento
I Live Here
Posts: 2600
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Tsukento » Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:16 am

There are plenty of times where a mangaka makes a character with someone's voice in mind who later voices the character in the anime.

Oda made Franky with Kazuki Yao in mind of voicing him after hearing his performances as Jango and Mr. 2 Bon Clay in One Piece. As Herms mentioned, Goku came about having Masako Nozawa voicing him because he imagined him to have that voice.

Gozar, in regards to Horikawa getting the scene down and Sabat not, yeah it doesn't make Sabat a bad actor if it's not as good as the original. However, it doesn't make him a good actor if he can't create the very same simple illusion that Horikawa presented: Vegeta is dying, humiliated and struggling to say his final words.

Mr. Sabat has proven he CAN be a good actor. His role as Armstrong in Fullmetal Alchemist and Zoro in One Piece prove this very well. His problem is that he's presenting a cartoony voice for a character that doesn't act cartoony, thus presenting a problem that occurs when it comes time to emote. It worked with Armstrong because he's that kind of character. With Zoro, he uses something very close to his actual voice.

Meanwhile, Vegeta's always sounding like he's got hemorrhoids and Piccolo always sounds like he's bellowing. An actor has to be able to show range with a character. Sticking to just pissy with Vegeta ends up presenting problems when Vegeta does show an emotion that isn't *gasp* anger.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/user/TsukentoX]YouTube Profile[/url]

User avatar
Raki
I Live Here
Posts: 2720
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:50 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Raki » Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:49 am

Gozar wrote: *Buzz*...Wrong-o buddy. The characters were created by Akira Toriyama. The only true-ness to the character is what Toriyama writes down. He did not choose Horikawa as Vegeta. A director did. Just because this director came from Japan and worked on the series doesn't mean he has a more legit opinion on how a character should sound. How a character should sound is subjective. Original does not mean true or correct. It just means he was the first.
Many times the manga writers choose who they want to voice a character in an anime.
The series doesn't start with the arrival of Raditz. Stop being lazy and watch Dragonball.

User avatar
SSJ2bardock
I Live Here
Posts: 2592
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:10 am
Location: Chicago

Post by SSJ2bardock » Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:39 pm

Raki wrote:
Gozar wrote: *Buzz*...Wrong-o buddy. The characters were created by Akira Toriyama. The only true-ness to the character is what Toriyama writes down. He did not choose Horikawa as Vegeta. A director did. Just because this director came from Japan and worked on the series doesn't mean he has a more legit opinion on how a character should sound. How a character should sound is subjective. Original does not mean true or correct. It just means he was the first.
Many times the manga writers choose who they want to voice a character in an anime.
He just said that the director chose the actor for Vegeta.
PSN Stay_Slapped

Let’s play FighterZ

User avatar
jjgp1112
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7799
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:15 pm
Location: Crooklyn

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:44 pm

And I think that Sabat really did Piccolo and Vegeta pretty good after the Android saga. A lot of people say that Sabat only captured the angry side of Vegeta, but face it: after the Frieza saga, all Vegeta was was the guy who was pissed off at everything and was obsessed with defeating Goku. His character didn't have a different role until the Buu saga, and even then, it all stemmed from him being angry at everything.

And yes, we all know that Sabat's voice for Piccolo during the Frieza and early Android sagas was just a grunting idiot. But his voice during the Cell and Buu saga, and especially the Saiyan & Namek saga redubs, was awesome. I can't imagine anyone else playing Piccolo.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 18703
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: 🏳️‍⚧️🍉

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:53 pm

This is his current Piccolo voice. It's really just him speaking in his deeper registers.

Even Sabat admits it's hard for him to act when having to do character voices.
💙💜💖 She/Her 💙💜💖

Chrono Trigger
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1269
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:13 am
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Contact:

Post by Chrono Trigger » Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:57 pm

I think Mr. Sabat was on point as Vegeta during the Buu Saga but I honestly feel he does better as Piccolo than Vegeta.
I completely respect your opinion, and I respect you. I enjoyed discussing this with you, even if I don't completely agree.

If we're all here for a reason then I'm just visiting.

If it's held in your heart then you can't let go.

User avatar
SSJ2bardock
I Live Here
Posts: 2592
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:10 am
Location: Chicago

Post by SSJ2bardock » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:09 pm

JulieYBM wrote:This is his current Piccolo voice. It's really just him speaking in his deeper registers.

Even Sabat admits it's hard for him to act when having to do character voices.
I don't see a problem with the voice he was using there.
PSN Stay_Slapped

Let’s play FighterZ

Nikkolas
Regular
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:00 pm

Post by Nikkolas » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:35 pm

I'll never get what people have against the music added in the dub.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mb4oWAXkTI

The Super Saiyan Vegeta soung playing when Vegeta attacks is epic. I get chills when i watch this scene because the atmosphere is just so perfectly conveyed to me.

User avatar
jjgp1112
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7799
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:15 pm
Location: Crooklyn

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:38 pm

JulieYBM wrote:This is his current Piccolo voice. It's really just him speaking in his deeper registers.

Even Sabat admits it's hard for him to act when having to do character voices.
What's wrong with it? It's my favorite voice for him.
Nikkolas wrote:I'll never get what people have against the music added in the dub.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mb4oWAXkTI

The Super Saiyan Vegeta soung playing when Vegeta attacks is epic. I get chills when i watch this scene because the atmosphere is just so perfectly conveyed to me.
That scene, and the entire episode 191 are the two occasions where I can honestly say that the dub trumped the Japanese version:

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGeTG74DF8

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8plFvPwuKs
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler

User avatar
NeptuneKai
I Live Here
Posts: 3576
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:51 pm

Post by NeptuneKai » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:52 pm

Nikkolas wrote:I'll never get what people have against the music added in the dub.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mb4oWAXkTI

The Super Saiyan Vegeta soung playing when Vegeta attacks is epic. I get chills when i watch this scene because the atmosphere is just so perfectly conveyed to me.
Some people just don't like synthesized "X-treme" music. In my opinion it's the equivalent of scrapping the Star Wars soundtrack and instead adding a bunch of music from My Chemical Romance.
Aro started to laugh. “Ha, ha, ha,” he chuckled.- Actual quote from Twilight

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 18703
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: 🏳️‍⚧️🍉

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:05 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:This is his current Piccolo voice. It's really just him speaking in his deeper registers.

Even Sabat admits it's hard for him to act when having to do character voices.
What's wrong with it? It's my favorite voice for him.
Nikkolas wrote:I'll never get what people have against the music added in the dub.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mb4oWAXkTI

The Super Saiyan Vegeta soung playing when Vegeta attacks is epic. I get chills when i watch this scene because the atmosphere is just so perfectly conveyed to me.
That scene, and the entire episode 191 are the two occasions where I can honestly say that the dub trumped the Japanese version:

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGeTG74DF8

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8plFvPwuKs[/quote

Oh, I never said I had anything against it. I loved it.
💙💜💖 She/Her 💙💜💖

User avatar
SSJ2bardock
I Live Here
Posts: 2592
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:10 am
Location: Chicago

Post by SSJ2bardock » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:17 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:
Nikkolas wrote:I'll never get what people have against the music added in the dub.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mb4oWAXkTI

The Super Saiyan Vegeta soung playing when Vegeta attacks is epic. I get chills when i watch this scene because the atmosphere is just so perfectly conveyed to me.
Some people just don't like synthesized "X-treme" music. In my opinion it's the equivalent of scrapping the Star Wars soundtrack and instead adding a bunch of music from My Chemical Romance.
How was the music in that scene "x-treme"?
PSN Stay_Slapped

Let’s play FighterZ

User avatar
Raki
I Live Here
Posts: 2720
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:50 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Raki » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:28 pm

Nikkolas wrote:I'll never get what people have against the music added in the dub.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mb4oWAXkTI

The Super Saiyan Vegeta soung playing when Vegeta attacks is epic. I get chills when i watch this scene because the atmosphere is just so perfectly conveyed to me.
How is that music any different from the stuff played before it? No offense, I just don't hear it. I must not be hardcore enough despite being an old school ECW fan.
The series doesn't start with the arrival of Raditz. Stop being lazy and watch Dragonball.

User avatar
Snail
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1989
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:38 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Snail » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:35 pm

Different tastes, it's just not the right cup o' tea to some. As the saying goes one man's garbage is another man's treasure[/b] (I think..)

User avatar
Rocketman
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10799
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:17 pm

Post by Rocketman » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:41 pm

Nikkolas wrote:I'll never get what people have against the music added in the dub.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mb4oWAXkTI

The Super Saiyan Vegeta soung playing when Vegeta attacks is epic. I get chills when i watch this scene because the atmosphere is just so perfectly conveyed to me.
Hey thanks, Toei. I never would have known Vegeta was thinking about Trunks' death without you flashing back to it.

User avatar
jjgp1112
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7799
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:15 pm
Location: Crooklyn

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:01 pm

Raki wrote:
Nikkolas wrote:I'll never get what people have against the music added in the dub.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mb4oWAXkTI

The Super Saiyan Vegeta soung playing when Vegeta attacks is epic. I get chills when i watch this scene because the atmosphere is just so perfectly conveyed to me.
How is that music any different from the stuff played before it? No offense, I just don't hear it. I must not be hardcore enough despite being an old school ECW fan.
*Goku fires Super Kamehameha*

EC-DUB! EC-DUB! EC-DUB
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler

Post Reply