New Special: Canon or Not?

Yamcha_krillin · Post by **Yamcha_krillin** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:08 pm

Raki wrote:
Yamcha_krillin wrote:I don't think that this special should be considered canonical because while I know it was made going by an original concept by Akira Toriyama, but Akira Toriyama didn't write the script and story, right?

Besides, there are some plotholes in that special as well as contradictions.
He wrote the whole thing.

It was based off a concept by Toriyama that's just it. He didn't write it, he had little to do with it, and of course the fact that it was based on (based on what?) means it wasn't written by Akira Toriyama, himself.

The red means you're typing poorly, as you do in most of your posts. You need to use proper grammar here. It just takes a couple extra seconds, man, come on.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:59 pm

Raki wrote:
Yamcha_krillin wrote:I don't think that this special should be considered canonical because while I know it was made going by an original concept by Akira Toriyama, but Akira Toriyama didn't write the script and story, right?
He wrote the whole thing.

No, Koyama Takao is credited for the scenario.

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:02 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
Raki wrote:
Yamcha_krillin wrote:I don't think that this special should be considered canonical because while I know it was made going by an original concept by Akira Toriyama, but Akira Toriyama didn't write the script and story, right?
He wrote the whole thing.
No, Koyama Takao is credited for the scenario.

Yeah but the genral plot is Toriyama. So it would seem the concept of Tarble and all is Toriyama's doing.

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:04 pm

I think it could be considered canon since it came from Akira Toriyama, but I don't think it's supposed to be. It just wouldn't make that much sense for something this relaxed, campy, and lazy to be part of a relatively serious story ("Oh hey guys I'm Vegeta's brother nice to meet you lol"). Toriyama just wanted to have some fun with a bit more Dragon Ball material, I reckon.

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:06 pm

Dr. Casey wrote:I think it could be considered canon since it came from Akira Toriyama, but I don't think it's supposed to be. It just wouldn't make that much sense for something this relaxed, campy, and lazy to be part of a relatively serious story ("Oh hey guys I'm Vegeta's brother nice to meet you lol"). Toriyama just wanted to have some fun with a bit more Dragon Ball material, I reckon.

Like I've said before. The series was originally very much like this. The characters were all goofier. It just seems to be going back to it's roots.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:06 pm

Dr. Casey wrote:I think it could be considered canon since it came from Akira Toriyama, but I don't think it's supposed to be. It just wouldn't make that much sense for something this relaxed, campy, and lazy to be part of a relatively serious story

You mean Gokû and Vegeta never really played video games?

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:08 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
Dr. Casey wrote:I think it could be considered canon since it came from Akira Toriyama, but I don't think it's supposed to be. It just wouldn't make that much sense for something this relaxed, campy, and lazy to be part of a relatively serious story
You mean Gokû and Vegeta never really played video games?

Come on now. Silly pictures and a brand new animated special are 2 vastly diferent things here.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:13 pm

Gozar wrote:Silly pictures and a brand new animated special are 2 vastly diferent things here.

(silly pictures = 漫画? ^^)
I don't know, Vegeta having a younger brother is rather silly.

By the way, why are people calling this a "special"? Technically, it's a new movie, right?

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:17 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
Gozar wrote:Silly pictures and a brand new animated special are 2 vastly diferent things here.
(silly pictures = 漫画? ^^)
I don't know, Vegeta having a younger brother is rather silly.

By the way, why are people calling this a "special"? Technically, it's a new movie, right?

I actually find it kind of cute.

Actually, I've thought of this as more of an OVA. =/

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:26 pm

It wasn't produced for the video market, so it's definitely not an OVA.

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:28 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:It wasn't produced for the video market, so it's definitely not an OVA.

But it wasn't made for theaters. Do conventions count as to making it a Movie?

Ex-Dubbie369 · Post by **Ex-Dubbie369** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:32 pm

Gozar wrote:
Olivier Hague wrote:It wasn't produced for the video market, so it's definitely not an OVA.
But it wasn't made for theaters. Do conventions count as to making it a Movie?

The movies usually premiered at a Toei festival and then had a limited theatrical run (I think). This isn't going to be shown in regular movie theatres to my knowledge.

I wouldn't call it an OVA, but I think movie or special would both work.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:34 pm

I will continue to call it a Special.

It's too short for me to think of it as a movie, it wasn't made specifically for the direct-to-video market so OVA/OAV is out for me. And it was made to celebrate an event. I consider this comparable to holiday or reunion specials for sitcoms.

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:35 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:I will continue to call it a Special.

It's too short for me to think of it as a movie, it wasn't made specifically for the direct-to-video market. And it was made to celebrate an event. I consider this comparable to holiday or reunion specials for sitcoms.

Yeah. I'm game with that.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:03 pm

I would definitely say this special is canonical. There doesn't seem to be anything that contradicts the manga. I don't see any plotholes. And the narrator's final line seems to be trying pleading its case "Thus ends a sad villains story about an evil menace that failed to register in public memory simply because it appeared just a little too late in time". To me, thats like saying "This would have been in the anime/manga if it had happened 2 years earlier"...

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:33 pm

Rocketman wrote:
MajinVejitaXV wrote:And for all the people shouting "Vegeta said there were no other Saiyajin!", did Tullece, Broli and Paragus make your heads explode or what?
Those movies can't be canon even if the enemies weren't Saiyan.

Oh, I know. I wasn't arguing that those movies were canon, merely that people who said the "No more Saiyajin" ruined that special for them wouldn't be experiencing that sensation for the first time

-Corey

Cosmodious · Post by **Cosmodious** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:12 pm

LeprikanGT wrote:I count it as another movie - most all of them dont fit into the story line and this one doesnt either - as there is no Uub......and Tenshinhan is nowhere in sight.

But for as short as it was, i liked it

No Tenshinhan in sight?...there could be a reason for that...involving voices...

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:39 pm

Cosmodious wrote:
LeprikanGT wrote:I count it as another movie - most all of them dont fit into the story line and this one doesnt either - as there is no Uub......and Tenshinhan is nowhere in sight.

But for as short as it was, i liked it
No Tenshinhan in sight?...there could be a reason for that...involving voices...

My completely irrealistic explanation is because he and Chaozu are busy fighting the Raudo invaders (the ones from Dr Slump Jump Festa '99 and Neko Majin Ga Iru 2) in an upcoming 7-15 minute Dragonball Jump Festa special.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:42 pm

Dayspring wrote:My completely irrealistic explanation is because he and Chaozu are busy fighting the Raudo invaders (the ones from Dr Slump Jump Festa '99 and Neko Majin Ga Iru 2) in an upcoming 7-15 minute Dragonball Jump Festa special.

Bad Lunch humped him to death.

MorningBreeze · Post by **MorningBreeze** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:49 pm

I think anyone having problems with this special is on a serious purist rampage, but then again, everyone is entitled to their particular opinion.

If you wanna be all fussy and make a big deal out of little things you consider "silly" (which in fact can work within cannon if you give it a little thought), then go ahead.

I think the majority of people are in love with the special and majority rules (why don't we start a poll).

Anyone saying this isn't classic DBZ at its best is dismissing the spirit and flavor of Toriyama in favor of their own ideas of what DBZ should be, a story that should be restrained to a very narrow interpretation of things (there are only 3 Saiyans alive bla bla). People who normally work on the fanfiction side of things, for example, tend to embrace a wider definition of this universe, where remnants of both the Ice-jin and the Saiya-jin empire may have survived in the outer rims of space (remnants Vegeta would have been oblivious to, including te brother he could have consider long dead at this point).

Now flay me if you will.