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VegettoEX
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Post by VegettoEX » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:53 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:Here's an idea.

Would some kind of additional statement in the rules be sufficient? Something (after "However, emphasis will be placed...") along the lines of:

"Certain minor inconsistent and baseless naming conventions may be automatically adjusted to reflect this global scope."
Well, if you aren't being a smart-alec I don't see a reason why not...
No, I'm being absolutely serious. I mean, we almost never have anyone bring this subject up beyond a, "Huh... that's neat...", so it never evolves into any type of "need".

If it's a genuine concern (and these particular word filters aren't really going anywhere), it at least makes sense to add in that mention to the rules and have a clear statement to point to.
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Post by Kaboom » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:55 pm

How 'bout just "we prefer to use the real names instead of the stupid, made-up ones," and leave it at that?
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Post by Tweaker » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:07 pm

I was initially going to label the action as "cheap" (because really--I got into the series through the dub, and I've seldom used anything but Tien to address the character), but then I realized a couple of things:

1. Accuracy over preference. Tenshinhan is the character's name, point blank. It's not a case of transliteration or even bad translation--it was a concious choice on part of FUNimation to change the name of the character because they arbitrarily defined it as "more suited to an American audience."

It's the same thing with Mr. Satan's name being changed to Hercule--you could argue that it's "better," but the point is that it is not the character's name. You're not getting around that.

2. His forum, his rules. If you don't like that, then, with all due respect, get the fuck out. If Mike wanted to make a filter that changed "penis" to "spargel" because he thought it was funny, then that's his prerogative, and he is absolutely entitled to that. He handles the hosting, he has run this community for years, and it is his message board.

I've made a few word filters on my own board, myself, to correct both grammatical errors and to just change things that annoy me or that I think need to be corrected. Such things involve changing "would of" to "would have," capitalizing Is in sentences, and adding correct apostrophes and capitalization to certain contractions.

Whether or not these filters are seen as "intrusive" or not is an entirely subjective view. Because of this, it only makes sense that Mike would make the final decision in regards to whether or not it should exist, given that he runs the message board on his own time and he calls the shots. This isn't to say he isn't open to suggestion at all--in fact, from what I've seen, he's very open to it--but just to say that, ultimately, it's his choice what happens to this board, for better or worse.

3. It's funny seeing peoples' reactions. Seriously, I'm laughing at the fact that this is even considered an issue. Tenshinhan is the name of the character, Mike put the filter there, and it's not going away. How about you learn to accept that and go on with your life? It certainly helps avoid flamewars over the name of the character derailing otherwise good discussion.

Finally, I'd like to address the "casual fan" comment. I consider myself a casual fan, but I still enjoy this board and the various topics of discussion within it. I enjoy discussing an animated series that I enjoyed as a child, and continue to enjoy to this day. It brings back fond memories, really. :)

So yeah, I don't think this board is limited to any specific group of fans other than those who are intelligent. If you can articulate yourself, can reason your opinions, can be insightful, and even have a good sense of humor, then you're quite welcome here!

I grew up on the dub and didn't know much outside of it, but being on this forum has taught me a ton about what the series I had enjoyed for so long is really like. I think that's a great thing. And, hell, I think that if a word filter puts me into the habit of addressing a character by its proper name, then by god, let it stay.

I think some of us take this forum for granted, and don't really understand that it's honestly one of the best of its kind. A few years ago, I never would have even thought about joining a Dragonball-related community because of the negative stigma against the series, and the embarassing attitudes of a lot of its fans. I feel welcome here, though; like I've found a new home where I can discuss the series without feeling like an idiot or feeling like I can't have a real discussion. It's a great feeling.

So not only do I say "suck it up and deal with it, you whiners," I also say thank you, Mike, for making a forum where I actually feel like I can fit in. And thank you to all the members who made a great community like this flourish. You're all awesome.

This post got sort of long-winded and off the initial subject, but I'm glad to get a lot of this off my chest. I hope you guys enjoy my testimony, though. :)

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Post by Forgotten Hero » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:48 pm

Sometimes I write Tenshinhan and sometimes I write Tien (When I'm lazy).
I know Tenshinhan is the correct way to spell his name and pronounce his name. But most of the time I write Tien, because I couldn't give a rat's ass about him in the first place, and I rarely have to write his name anyway.
That is just my thoughts on this matter.
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Post by JulieYBM » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:49 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:Here's an idea.

Would some kind of additional statement in the rules be sufficient? Something (after "However, emphasis will be placed...") along the lines of:

"Certain minor inconsistent and baseless naming conventions may be automatically adjusted to reflect this global scope."
Well, if you aren't being a smart-alec I don't see a reason why not...
No, I'm being absolutely serious. I mean, we almost never have anyone bring this subject up beyond a, "Huh... that's neat...", so it never evolves into any type of "need".

If it's a genuine concern (and these particular word filters aren't really going anywhere), it at least makes sense to add in that mention to the rules and have a clear statement to point to.
Yeah, I agree with that. I'm not going to argue against removing the filters but if it shall prevent certain things from coming up once again I'm all for an honest 'this is how we are' (which is probably terrible grammar on my part) statement to be added.
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Post by Dayspring » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:11 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:Here's an idea.

Would some kind of additional statement in the rules be sufficient? Something (after "However, emphasis will be placed...") along the lines of:

"Certain minor inconsistent and baseless naming conventions may be automatically adjusted to reflect this global scope."
Well, if you aren't being a smart-alec I don't see a reason why not...
No, I'm being absolutely serious. I mean, we almost never have anyone bring this subject up beyond a, "Huh... that's neat...", so it never evolves into any type of "need".

If it's a genuine concern (and these particular word filters aren't really going anywhere), it at least makes sense to add in that mention to the rules and have a clear statement to point to.
However, emphasis will be placed on the original Japanese version, as it is the single "global" version that can be enjoyed by all. Doing so also removes confusion arising from elements lost in various translations.

Add any examples (I suggest D.jinn Buu, Ti.en and Her.cule) as you deem necessary. The bold portion is just there to point out what I added, not for the addendum to actually be bolded.

I think it's valid for that reason. Ti.en is annoying and superfluous. It would be like changing my name from Brian to Bry just because you can. Does it add anything? No. Does it take away? Yes. My name is Brian, not Bryan, and I don't recall giving you permission to address me in such a familiar fashion. Ti.en is just a needless and random mispelling Chaozu's affectionate "Ten" or "Ten-san." It really shouldn't be used.

But I'm starting to rant, so I'll use the other examples now: D.jinn Buu, V.egerot and Her.cule confuse the shit out of me when I see people referencing them. Why? Because I haven't read VIZ's edition of the manga, nor seen most of FUNimation's dub.
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Post by disturbed001 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:18 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:Sometimes I write Tenshinhan and sometimes I write Tenshinhan (When I'm lazy).
That is just my thoughts on this matter.
What? You are writing the same thing... I'm so confused here...
Last edited by disturbed001 on Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by JulieYBM » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:21 pm

disturbed001 wrote:
Forgotten Hero wrote:Sometimes I write Tenshinhan and sometimes I write Tenshinhan (When I'm lazy).
That is just my thoughts on this matter.
What? you are writing the same thing... I'm so confused here...[/b]
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Post by Taku128 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:50 pm

Dayspring wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:Well, if you aren't being a smart-alec I don't see a reason why not...
No, I'm being absolutely serious. I mean, we almost never have anyone bring this subject up beyond a, "Huh... that's neat...", so it never evolves into any type of "need".

If it's a genuine concern (and these particular word filters aren't really going anywhere), it at least makes sense to add in that mention to the rules and have a clear statement to point to.
However, emphasis will be placed on the original Japanese version, as it is the single "global" version that can be enjoyed by all. Doing so also removes confusion arising from elements lost in various translations.

Add any examples (I suggest D.jinn Buu, Ti.en and Her.cule) as you deem necessary. The bold portion is just there to point out what I added, not for the addendum to actually be bolded.
Is Djinn Boo really necessary? I've never seen anyone use it outside of mentioning that Viz translated Majin Buu as such.
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Post by MajinVejitaXV » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:57 pm

VegettoEX wrote:There is absolutely no-one holding a gun to your head telling you to conform. If there is, send me a PM and we'll track him/her down.
Fuck, you mean I'm not supposed to...you know...with the guns and the head...shit... :P

As for the topic at hand, I never found the word filter to be bothersome. As noted, it's easy to circumvent to your heart's desire (and unless I'm mistaken, none of the staff go re-edit posts for character names). Plus, the name is that which was used in the original version and many international versions.

If anything, I kind of find the implied need to lend respect to a willful, meaningless change a bit more childish than the word filter itself. We're an international community, with members from all over the world. Why wouldn't certain terms be filtered to be more recognizable by the community at large?

And might I also express the amusement at reading "I like this forum, I like the people" right after reading that the forum is made up of "Mike's peons." :P

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Post by Drabaz » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:17 pm

Taku128 wrote:Is Djinn Boo really necessary? I've never seen anyone use it outside of mentioning that Viz translated Majin Buu as such.
Well, I've never seen anybody start an issue with the word filtering, but that happened. Maybe a new 9 year old was born in America and he/she enjoyed reading manga rather than watching anime. What would be familiar to him wouldn't be familiar to the rest of us. Not his/her fault. Mike just adds a word filter so that it's recognizable by everybody. I mean seriously, Innagadadavida, you just had to be that guy.

Bkev, I don't think you realize what you did. Now there's no point in the word filter since you told the only person that has a problem with it, how to get around it.
MajinVejitaXV wrote:We're an international community, with members from all over the world. Why wouldn't certain terms be filtered to be more recognizable by the community at large?
Exactly! How hard is that to understand? It's not saying, "the Japanese version/original is the best" It's just what's internationally recognized.
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Post by Captain Awesome » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:34 pm

The manga is the primary work, even Viz refers to him by his correct name, the fact of the matter is no matter how much you love the dub, in this case, it's flat out wrong, his name is not Tien.

Am I the only one that finds Tien Shinhan is harder to say than Tenshinhan?

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Post by Taku128 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:41 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:The manga is the primary work, even Viz refers to him by his correct name, the fact of the matter is no matter how much you love the dub, in this case, it's flat out wrong, his name is not Tien.

Am I the only one that finds Tien Shinhan is harder to say than Tenshinhan?
I don't really find either of them harder to say then the other. Tien Shinhan is just a syllable longer then Tenshinhan. Being harder to say doesn't change what name I use for a character though, otherwise I wouldn't say Kuririn.
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Post by Innagadadavida » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:46 pm

I know. I know. I KNOW that I should just leave this topic alone. Because I am beating a dead horse. I KNOW THAT. I feel like I'm the only one in this thread who doesn't have his fingers in his ears going LALALALALALA.

I KNOW his name is TENSHINHAN. I KNOW THAT. That is undebatable. I am simply complaining about the UNNECESSARY entry in the word filter for T I E N.

I love the manga. I love the Japanese voice acting/script and score. But I also love the FUNimation dub. Don't confuse me with an ignorant dub-only butt face.

By NOT having T I E N in the word filter, it is in NO WAY lending respect to the dub. BECAUSE IT IS AN ABSENCE OF RESPECT OR DISREGARD.

I am getting upset over this, not because of the fact that his name is or isn't Tenshinhan. I'm not even upset because it's in the word filter. I'm getting upset because you people are not reading the posts and are not listening or accepting what I have to say.

And I am reading all of your comments and I know and agree with almost all of what you say. I expect the same respect.

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Post by SSJ2bardock » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:47 pm

I'm just gonna throw in my two cents here and then slowly back away.

I have no problem with the word filter so it doesn't matter what happens with this whole situation, but if we were able to use Tien would anybody not know what we're talking about? And I know Mike talks about how we have fans from all over the world on the board sometimes and he likes to recognize that fact. So then while emphasis is put on the Japanese version, shouldn't it still be recognized that his name is different in another dub no matter how stupid or unnecessary that name change may have been?

Again, whether this gets changed or not matters very little to me, so I'm just gonna slowly back away.

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Post by Captain Awesome » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:52 pm

I was speaking more in terms of the space in the middle, the dub doesn't call him Tienshinhan, it's Tien Shinhan, it just feels awkward to say to me.

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Post by Dayspring » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:00 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:I know. I know. I KNOW that I should just leave this topic alone. Because I am beating a dead horse. I KNOW THAT. I feel like I'm the only one in this thread who doesn't have his fingers in his ears going LALALALALALA.

I KNOW his name is TENSHINHAN. I KNOW THAT. That is undebatable. I am simply complaining about the UNNECESSARY entry in the word filter for T I E N.

I love the manga. I love the Japanese voice acting/script and score. But I also love the FUNimation dub. Don't confuse me with an ignorant dub-only butt face.

By NOT having T I E N in the word filter, it is in NO WAY lending respect to the dub. BECAUSE IT IS AN ABSENCE OF RESPECT OR DISREGARD.

I am getting upset over this, not because of the fact that his name is or isn't Tenshinhan. I'm not even upset because it's in the word filter. I'm getting upset because you people are not reading the posts and are not listening or accepting what I have to say.

And I am reading all of your comments and I know and agree with almost all of what you say. I expect the same respect.
But respect is the heart of the matter. By ignoring T ien, we're disrespecting the dub's disrespect. We understand your point, we just disagree because T ien is like addressing "Sir Robert" as "Bobby." And then mispelling Bobby on top of it!

You find that we're being disrespectful towards the dub, but we're (or at least I) am trying to point out that the dub, in this instance, doesn't deserve any respect for creating such a disrespectful (and needless) change.
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Post by Captain Awesome » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:18 pm

SSJ2bardock wrote:And I know Mike talks about how we have fans from all over the world on the board sometimes and he likes to recognize that fact. So then while emphasis is put on the Japanese version, shouldn't it still be recognized that his name is different in another dub no matter how stupid or unnecessary that name change may have been?
At this point changing the word filter is kind of legitimising FUNimation's fuck up, you don't see word filters on King Kai or Krillin, because the dub got these right, that right there is acknowledgement of something that was done correctly.

The emphasis on the Japanese version makes us different from other communities, Dragonball is convoluted enough without stupid dub terms and re-writes complicating things.

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Post by SSJ2bardock » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:29 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:
SSJ2bardock wrote:And I know Mike talks about how we have fans from all over the world on the board sometimes and he likes to recognize that fact. So then while emphasis is put on the Japanese version, shouldn't it still be recognized that his name is different in another dub no matter how stupid or unnecessary that name change may have been?
At this point changing the word filter is kind of legitimising FUNimation's fuck up, you don't see word filters on King Kai or Krillin, because the dub got these right, that right there is acknowledgement of something that was done correctly.

The emphasis on the Japanese version makes us different from other communities, Dragonball is convoluted enough without stupid dub terms and re-writes complicating things.
Fucked up or not, that's his name in the US dub. Then again, I don't care either way 'cause the character in question is a total badass regardless of what his name is.
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Post by tinlunlau » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:50 pm

If push comes to shove, you might as well start calling him "T.ien Jin Fan".

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