The Legendary Super-Saiyan, a cover up?

[Horgus]

A thought I had the other day when I was re-watching Movie 8, one of my favorite of the specials:

What if the Legendary Super-Saiyan occurred more commonly as a genetic trait amongst the Saiyan people than we were led to believe? I know this is all conjecture, but what if King Vegeta conspired to keep these genetic flukes from ever 'planting roots' as it were, and overthrowing him?

Even as a child Broly posed a huge threat, King Vegeta couldn't have had many warriors with strength that surpassed 10,000, which is how powerful Broli was as a mere baby.

What if Broly represented a terrible, unrepentantly destructive further step in Saiyan genetic evolution?

Going even further, would this vindicate Freeza's destruction of the Saiyan homeworld? Maybe there was something behind his ill omen towards the Saiyan's as a race.

[Snail]

If one chooses to dwell extremely deep into the innards of the psyche behind the Saiyan race, and culture; It's a plausible theory.

[Herms]

What if Broly represented a terrible, unrepentantly destructive further step in Saiyan genetic evolution?

"Unrepentantly destructive" describes the full-blooded, non-amnesiac Saiyans we see in the series pretty well.

[Horgus]

"Unrepentantly destructive" describes the full-blooded, non-amnesiac Saiyans we see in the series pretty well.

Well yes, I could have picked my words with a little more exclusivity, but regular Saiyan's could be cowed into submission to someone who was stronger, could you see a Legendary Super Saiyan submitting to anyone but his own kind and level of strength? I couldn't.

[Saiyan-Professor]

I agree Broli is clearly a mutant. His psychological instability was evident from the events in Movie #8. His over aggressiveness was most likely from two things. Saiyans in general may have a modified pheochromocytoma. This is a growth on the adrenal gland that causes an overload of epinephrine (adrenaline) to be released in the body along with other hormones. In Broli case, he most likely receives more than the average Saiyan. Second it was stated by Vegeta in the manga and Kakarrot in Dragonball GT that Saiyan's “ferocity increases” when they go Super Saiyan. We see all of these factors multiplied many times in Broli. Therefore, King Vegeta and Freeza may have taken the right course of action. In addition, the flashback of the first Legendary Super Saiyan during the Namek Saga the dub states that he was consumed by his own madness.

Anyways Broli is still the king.

[saiyanprincess]

With the exclusion of Brolley I always wondered if it was due to Vegeta and Goku being slightly different to other saiyans in the emotional aspect. What i'm trying to get at; Vegeta had begun to change by mating with Bulma and obviously finding somebody to care for him. Sure other Saiyans mated, but perhaps Goku and Vegeta just became better people?

Goku changed to Super Saiyan after grieving about Krillin, This was clearly an emotional thing and the desire to avenge his best friend. Vegeta apparently transformed in space just in time to save his own life from a huge asteroid thus saving his life and allowing him to return to Earth and ensure the androids were taken care of.

Could it be that the other Saiyans were just too bloodthirsty and simply did not have the powerlevels to become the legendary? Basically they were just to mean.
This brainwave is obviously not the case for the demi-Saiyans as they seem to find it easier to unlock the key to becoming a super Saiyan. Perhaps as they have witnessed their parents transforming so could pick it up easier? Unless it's a gentic thing with human-Saiyan mating.

It's just an idea please don't pluck out my feathers over it.

[Dayspring]

Officially, Super Saiyan is achieved by surpassing one's potential and then achieving an insane amount of rage. This can easily explain why there haven't been SSJs in forever, why we suddenly see them popping up everywhere, and even why Broly is so insanely different and strong:

To REACH one's potential is a large undertaking. To surpass must be even more difficult and rare. Thus, it stands to reason that only select members of the race will be able to do it. Even fewer will undergo the rage needed to transform. This explains the lack of Super Saiyans when the race was in full force, as well as the abundance after the Namek saga.

Meanwhile, the mutant theory even explains Broly: if his mutation is extreme rage and a large power, then it stands to reason that he'd quickly reach the requirements of regular SSJ. It would even explain his eventually reaching USSJ and USSJ2, which would only be interpreted as "Legendary SSJ."

[Wojak]

Anyways Broli is still the king.

"A powerless king is a king nevertheless" ~ Wojak

"Even a weakling can inherit a throne, but only the strong will take it by force" ~ Wojak

"To be a powerful king, strength cannot be measured in amount of men, but in strong will" ~ Wojak

"A guy like Brolly that got killed by three weak Super Saiyans and later by a Super Saiyan (that has decreased in power, mind you) and two Super Saiyan kids cannot be called king or powerful" ~ Wojak

[Saiyan-Professor]

..."A guy like Brolly that got killed by three weak Super Saiyans and later by a Super Saiyan (that has decreased in power, mind you) and two Super Saiyan kids cannot be called king or powerful" ~ Wojak

I am not even going to address the “Toei Punch”, that ending was ridiculous. Son Gohan, Chibu Trunks, Goten and Kakarrot did not beat Broli the strain from maintaining his Ki-barrier in the sun was what killed him. His heart burst just moments prior to his making it through.

[Dayspring]

..."A guy like Brolly that got killed by three weak Super Saiyans and later by a Super Saiyan (that has decreased in power, mind you) and two Super Saiyan kids cannot be called king or powerful" ~ Wojak

I am not even going to address the “Toei Punch”, that ending was ridiculous. Son Gohan, Chibu Trunks, Goten and Kakarrot did not beat Broli the strain from maintaining his Ki-barrier in the sun was what killed him. His heart burst just moments prior to his making it through.

I wonder if that prooves it's impossible for Saiyans (or at least Broly) to go USSJ3...?

[Saiyan-Professor]

..."A guy like Brolly that got killed by three weak Super Saiyans and later by a Super Saiyan (that has decreased in power, mind you) and two Super Saiyan kids cannot be called king or powerful" ~ Wojak

I am not even going to address the “Toei Punch”, that ending was ridiculous. Son Gohan, Chibu Trunks, Goten and Kakarrot did not beat Broli the strain from maintaining his Ki-barrier in the sun was what killed him. His heart burst just moments prior to his making it through.

I wonder if that prooves it's impossible for Saiyans (or at least Broly) to go USSJ3...?

I thought the “Legendary” transformation was one unto itself, distinct from the Ultra Super Saiyan editions? I think Mike said that the Daizenshuu list it as something completely different.

[dario03]

It seemed different to me since he seems to be as fast as the others but much stronger. He didn't display any super acts of speed like people usually do when they power up but he also landed a hit just about everytime he wanted. And in movie 10 his regular SSJ form didn't seem to be super fast to imply that he had just been fast enough to lose speed and still keep up once going LSSJ.

[Wojak]

..."A guy like Brolly that got killed by three weak Super Saiyans and later by a Super Saiyan (that has decreased in power, mind you) and two Super Saiyan kids cannot be called king or powerful" ~ Wojak

I am not even going to address the “Toei Punch”, that ending was ridiculous. Son Gohan, Chibu Trunks, Goten and Kakarrot did not beat Broli the strain from maintaining his Ki-barrier in the sun was what killed him. His heart burst just moments prior to his making it through.
*snippetysnip*

I have watched the movie you know. That's how I can place my opinion on it.

Sure, he was blasted into the sun. But the thing is: he couldn't stop the beam in the first place.
SSJ2 Gohan's kamehameha on Cell (prior to Cell's zenkai) didn't blast him into space, but it wounded him severely.
The blast from the Weak Super Saiyans was enough to send Brolly to outer space.
Their power combined was nothing Brolly could handle.

My theory is that Brolly has a good defence and durability, and speed too, but his power isn't that great.
The Z-senshi took blast after blast and still stood up, whilst one blast was enough to bring USSJ Vegeta down by a non-powered up Cell.
Also, Goten and Trunks as Super Saiyans handled him pretty well endurance-wise.

[Saiyan-Professor]

It seemed different to me since he seems to be as fast as the others but much stronger. He didn't display any super acts of speed like people usually do when they power up but he also landed a hit just about everytime he wanted. And in movie 10 his regular SSJ form didn't seem to be super fast to imply that he had just been fast enough to lose speed and still keep up once going LSSJ.

Just from external characteristics alone, the form seems quite different. The Ultra Super Saiyan forms appear to pump up the individual’s already existing mass, which slows the person down, and they have visible irises. Whereas Broli appears to gain more mass from some unknown source and he seemed more proportioned in comparison not to mention that he does not lose any speed but gains some as well. Just because Broli did not show, any speed at all times does not mean that he did not have it to begin with.

..."A guy like Brolly that got killed by three weak Super Saiyans and later by a Super Saiyan (that has decreased in power, mind you) and two Super Saiyan kids cannot be called king or powerful" ~ Wojak

I am not even going to address the “Toei Punch”, that ending was ridiculous. Son Gohan, Chibu Trunks, Goten and Kakarrot did not beat Broli the strain from maintaining his Ki-barrier in the sun was what killed him. His heart burst just moments prior to his making it through.
*snippetysnip*

I have watched the movie you know. That's how I can place my opinion on it.

Sure, he was blasted into the sun. But the thing is: he couldn't stop the beam in the first place.
SSJ2 Gohan's kamehameha on Cell (prior to Cell's zenkai) didn't blast him into space, but it wounded him severely.
The blast from the Weak Super Saiyans was enough to send Brolly to outer space.
Their power combined was nothing Brolly could handle.

Just because they pushed, someone does not mean that they were stronger. By that reasoning Piccolo was stronger than Freeza because he kicked him 16 blocks or pre-Super Saiyan Kakarrot was stronger than Freeza because he threw him around a few times during the Namek Saga. A really extreme case is Chibi-Super Saiyan 1 Kakarrot punching Super #17 half way around the world makes him stronger in Dragonball GT. At the most, you I would say that the “Idiot Trio” concentrated their energy together which gave them a slight advantage similar to how in the Piccolo and Kakarrot versus Raditz fight we see Piccolo’s Makankôsappô killed a much stronger opponent. Yet in Movie #10 Broli’s Ki barrier was stronger because it held up the whole time except as I mentioned the strain from maintaining it in the sun made Broli’s heart burst. I would also like to mention that if Chibi-Trunk’s Ki blasts did not linger for whatever strange reason Broli Giant-Meteor would have wiped out his opponents and most likely the earth. I believe that Broli’s death in Movie #10 made more sense than the infamous “Toei Punch” ending in #8. By the way I approve this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaKcvGhf ... re=related

My theory is that Brolly has a good defence and durability, and speed too, but his power isn't that great.
The Z-senshi took blast after blast and still stood up, whilst one blast was enough to bring USSJ Vegeta down by a non-powered up Cell.
Also, Goten and Trunks as Super Saiyans handled him pretty well endurance-wise.

Broli was toying with those kids because if you recall when he got serious he almost wiped them out with a single blast. His Super Saiyan form was fast because he managed to outmaneuver Son Gohan.

[Dayspring]

I am not even going to address the “Toei Punch”, that ending was ridiculous. Son Gohan, Chibu Trunks, Goten and Kakarrot did not beat Broli the strain from maintaining his Ki-barrier in the sun was what killed him. His heart burst just moments prior to his making it through.

I wonder if that prooves it's impossible for Saiyans (or at least Broly) to go USSJ3...?

I thought the “Legendary” transformation was one unto itself, distinct from the Ultra Super Saiyan editions? I think Mike said that the Daizenshuu list it as something completely different.

They are, but look at him: LSSJ is nothing but USSJ2 without losing energy. He then gets beatened by USSJ Goku. In the context of this discussion, it is my opinion therefore that Broly is nothing but a mutant Saiyan.

[JulieYBM]

I wonder if that prooves it's impossible for Saiyans (or at least Broly) to go USSJ3...?

I thought the “Legendary” transformation was one unto itself, distinct from the Ultra Super Saiyan editions? I think Mike said that the Daizenshuu list it as something completely different.

They are, but look at him: LSSJ is nothing but USSJ2 without losing energy. He then gets beatened by USSJ Goku. In the context of this discussion, it is my opinion therefore that Broly is nothing but a mutant Saiyan.

Was Son really USSj?

[Saiyan-Professor]

...They are, but look at him: LSSJ is nothing but USSJ2 without losing energy. He then gets beatened by USSJ Goku. In the context of this discussion, it is my opinion therefore that Broly is nothing but a mutant Saiyan.

I agree about the mutant aspect but there are some differences between the Legendary form and Ultra Super Saiyan. This is a quote from one of my earlier posts.

Just from external characteristics alone, the form seems quite different. The Ultra Super Saiyan forms appear to pump up the individual’s already existing mass, which slows the person down, and they have visible irises. Whereas Broli appears to gain more mass from some unknown source and he seemed more proportioned in comparison not to mention that he does not lose any speed but gains some as well.

[Spazicon]

Yea. There's a lot of key (major) differences between the various "Ultra" forms, and LSSJ. They just aren't the same thing. Not even close.

[Bussani]

Gaining additional mass doesn't seem like such a big deal when you consider the Oozaru transformation...or even Piccolo's ability to grow that he used in the tournament.

I just thought I'd add, Trunks' irises did disappear when he first powered up to USSJ. They only came back once they were done and Kuririn commented that he thought Trunks had lost himself for a moment. It does seem possible that the two forms are related, at least in some way. Broly's more or less constantly lost in his though.

Maybe Broly's form is like the next step up from USSJ, as SSJ2 and SSJ3 are the next step ups from normal SSJ?

[Spazicon]

Gaining additional mass doesn't seem like such a big deal when you consider the Oozaru transformation...or even Piccolo's ability to grow that he used in the tournament.

This is true. I think the muscle gain is simply to demonstrate how "powerful" Broly is/was. It's an artistic/visual sign about Broly, being an overpowered madhouse, of sorts. And when you see his large, towering physique over the other Saiyan warriors, it does get the point across.

I just thought I'd add, Trunks' irises did disappear when he first powered up to USSJ. They only came back once they were done and Kuririn commented that he thought Trunks had lost himself for a moment. It does seem possible that the two forms are related, at least in some way. Broly's more or less constantly lost in his though.

There were many times were Broly seemed to be in complete control. I don't think he's in some sort of rage or anything. Broly just enjoys what he's doing, and what he likes to do is cause harm, and destruction to all.

He was in complete control during the battle in 8, where he taunts Goku, and threatens his child, and blows up [Planet] Shamo just to spite it's scared shit-less inhabitants.

Maybe Broly's form is like the next step up from USSJ, as SSJ2 and SSJ3 are the next step ups from normal SSJ?

Naw. It's not a form anyone else could obtain, nor is it a step above any other form the Saiyans have already achieved. It's literally a form Broly has, and only Broly alone, which he went after going Super Saiyan. Like a divergent path from the same stem, if you will.