Correct name/spelling for Tarble?

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Post by Spazicon » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:49 pm

Taku128 wrote:But Toei has a history of not knowing what they're doing when writing names in English.
History or not, this is the here and now.
Up until recently they've used the spelling Son Goku.
Yea, I can totally see how not putting a hyphen in between that can totally change the spelling, and meaning of the word. Totally.
Recently they've been spelling Freeza's name as Frieza. Should we all start calling him that? If you say it out loud you'll still get the pun.
Again, using an _i_ in an e's place totally changes the way the name is read, and sounds. Drastic difference. It's just like the difference between Tarble, and Table.

Being extremely sarcastic, btw.
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Post by Taku128 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:52 pm

Spazicon wrote:
Taku128 wrote:Up until recently they've used the spelling Son Goku.
Yea, I can totally see how not putting a hyphen in between that can totally change the spelling, and meaning of the word. Totally.
Meant to put Son Gokou. :oops: EDIT: There's a word filter on Son Gokou. I guess I did put Gokou last time.
Spazicon wrote:
Taku128 wrote:Recently they've been spelling Freeza's name as Freeza. Should we all start calling him that? If you say it out loud you'll still get the pun.
Again, using an _i_ in an e's place totally changes the way the name is read, and sounds. Drastic difference. It's just like the difference between Tarble, and Table.

Being extremely sarcastic, btw.
Great, now I'm confused. :lol:
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Post by Olivier Hague » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:01 pm

Taku128 wrote:
Olivier Hague wrote:"Gray" doesn't quite fit with the kana...
Neither does Trunks.
Er... "Trunks" does, actually. "Torankusu" seems to be the best way to render "trunks" in Japanese.
"Gure", on the other hand, isn't the most adequate way to render "gray" in Japanese (that would be "gurei").

(and yeah, I'm thinking there's a good chance the name was actually based on "grape", here)
Toei has never been good at translating the character's names into English.
Into alphabet. English skills don't have anything to do with that, as they're imaginary names.
And even when they're based on English words, there's no Sacred Law that says "puns shall be preserved" or whatever.
In the end, it's the creators' prerogative. Their characters, their names, their spellings.
Tarble should be Table. Gure should be Gray (Unless I'm wrong and it's a pun on something else), Abo should be Avo, and ACa should be Aca (not much of a change for that one).
Who are we to tell how names "should" be spelled?
Toei has a history of not knowing what they're doing when writing names in English.
In alphabet.
And that's seriously exaggerated. For example, Tôei used "Tulece", which obviously means whoever came up with that alphabet spelling knew what they were doing.

I'm seriously tired of the old "Japanese people and their Engrish lollol!1!" angle.
No, they don't care that much about alphabet spellings (which is only natural, considering they generally don't use alphabet). Yes, the alphabet spellings the original creators/copyright holders come up with may end up being inconsistent because of that. Shit happens.
But stop claiming they don't know what the fuck they're talking about and you know better simply because *OMG* you speak English. I've seen more impressive credentials, sorry to say.
Recently they've been spelling Freeza's name as Frieza.
Blame the US translation for that one...

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Post by JulieYBM » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:28 pm

Actually, in katakana Gurei would be written as グレー.
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Post by Olivier Hague » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:01 am

JulieYBM wrote:Actually, in katakana Gurei would be written as グレー.
Nope.
But if you meant the English word "Grey"/"Gray" (rather than "Gurei"), "gurei" and "gure-" are both used. "Gurei" is more common though, I believe.

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Post by Adamant » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:43 am

Taku128 wrote:They have a dash between Son Goku, so should we all be typing Son-Goku?
Image
Done already :D

Plus the subtitles themselves used "Son Goku".

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Post by sailorspazz » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:50 am

I guess my problem is that the spellings for the new characters are not consistent. We have two characters based off the word "vegetable". If you name the first one "Vegeta", why would you change it and add an 'r' to the second one and make it "Tarble" instead of "Table"? They both have an extended vowel, so why only add a letter in one of the two cases? Same goes for the new characters based off "avocado". So one is called "Cado", which retains the original spelling, yet the other is called "Abo", which doesn't? What's wrong with wanting it to be consistent? The puns are usually consistent in Dragonball, at least when the characters in question are closely related; after all, we don't mix them together by saying Freeza and Cooler (unless we're striving to be Funimation :P )

This is just my opinion, I don't want to hear any ranting about how the pun's original spelling doesn't matter (except for, you know, in all of the many cases where it does match, by some crazy coincidence :roll: )
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Post by Herms » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:47 am

sailorspazz wrote:I guess my problem is that the spellings for the new characters are not consistent. We have two characters based off the word "vegetable". If you name the first one "Vegeta", why would you change it and add an 'r' to the second one and make it "Tarble" instead of "Table"? They both have an extended vowel, so why only add a letter in one of the two cases?
Well, for one thing the extended vowel in each case is different, so that could be a reason to treat them differently. And we already have a major example of an extended 'a' sound being rendered as 'ar', in the case of Zarbon (which is also another example of the official and accepted spelling deviating from the name's origin), so I don't see what's so crazy with putting the 'r' in 'Tarble'.
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Post by Masamune_Chad » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:24 pm

Not to get off of subject but was I the only one who noticed the translation for Kakarrot was "Kakrotte"? How does that work?

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Post by VegettoEX » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:28 pm

Masamune_Chad wrote:Not to get off of subject but was I the only one who noticed the translation for Kakarrot was "Kakrotte"? How does that work?
To be fair, it looked like a standard typo to me in that one instance, since it was properly spelled out earlier in the special.
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Post by Suupaa Gohan 2 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:13 pm

sailorspazz wrote:I guess my problem is that the spellings for the new characters are not consistent. We have two characters based off the word "vegetable". If you name the first one "Vegeta", why would you change it and add an 'r' to the second one and make it "Tarble" instead of "Table"? They both have an extended vowel, so why only add a letter in one of the two cases? Same goes for the new characters based off "avocado". So one is called "Cado", which retains the original spelling, yet the other is called "Abo", which doesn't? What's wrong with wanting it to be consistent? The puns are usually consistent in Dragonball, at least when the characters in question are closely related; after all, we don't mix them together by saying Freeza and Cooler (unless we're striving to be Funimation :P )
I couldn't agree more with this angle. Toei's 'official spellings' should not religiously be taken as the only spellings, or we would all be referencing our main man as Gokou. I think that Dragonball fans have enough sense to know that Vegeta's brother's name is another in the Saiyajin vegetable pun set, and won't confuse the pronunciation with the piece of furniture, so what's wrong with Table, really? That's my personal preference. I don't have a problem with those who spell it Tarble, but it's not my preference.

I just think that we should be judging these things not on ZOMG WHAT TOEI SEZ GOEZ but on 'so long as someone can look at/say the word aloud and still get the intended pun, it's fine'. I mean, nowadays it's much more rare, but back in the old days no one ever had a problem with Vejita or Vegita. I still see Vegita a lot when it comes to non-English speaking fans. Either way you can look at it and guess pretty clearly that his name was based on vegetable. Come on, Dragonball fandom is supposed to be fun - I can't stand fans that are constantly trying to shove 'the right way' down the throats of the fans (though I'll be a hypocrite here with regards to 'Frieza') - so long as it still gets the pun across, it should be acceptable.

So long as we don't start calling them Taaburu and Bejiita, people should stop freaking out so much.
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Post by Saiyan-Professor » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:37 pm

Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:...So long as we don't start calling them Taaburu and Bejiita, people should stop freaking out so much.
There are fans that have your attitude that feel that those names are acceptable.

Yeah I know that everyone has their own personal canon and so forth I just wish Dragonball English speaking fans could at least unify on the spelling of the names.
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Post by Li'l Lemmy » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:02 pm

For an English audience (read: you, me, us), I count Mr. Simmons' translations as the acceptable standard when it comes to names. T'aint sayin' that it's the only standard, a'course-- God knows that there's people out there who want their Toranksu-- but rather than sort through six different spellings of "Goku", I find it easier to defer to an expert opinion. I basically just spell everything the way he does.
Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:...So long as we don't start calling them Taaburu and Bejiita, people should stop freaking out so much.
Lemmy's shout-out to the girlfriend: Simmons does translate the name as "Boo", Alex, no matter how much you might wanna argue with me. And I've got more than a hundred people here who can back me up on it, so I win. :razz:


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Post by Olivier Hague » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:14 pm

Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote: Toei's 'official spellings' should not religiously be taken as the only spellings, or we would all be referencing our main man as Gokou.
(it's not like Toriyama never spelled that one in alphabet)
That's a Japanese name, and we have transliteration systems for those. Not really an issue.
I just think that we should be judging these things not on ZOMG WHAT TOEI SEZ GOEZ but on 'so long as someone can look at/say the word aloud and still get the intended pun, it's fine'.
Because the puns are so important. I don't know...
I mean, off the top of my head, the only name pun that was (kinda) acknowledged as such within the story was the one in... "Bulma". Yeah, we're not using the official spelling for that one at all.

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Post by Li'l Lemmy » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:28 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:Because the puns are so important. I don't know...
Eh. In terms of the story, no. The puns ain't really important.

In terms of the puns themselves, well . . . yeah. They're pretty darned important, I'd say. And not individually, but rather because Toriyama-sensei made so many of them out of just about everything. It's all part of the style-- take away the pun, and you lose part of the author's intention. (What FUNimation did to the names of Bardock's teammates was just atrocious to the whole Saiyajin vegetable garden concept. :D )

Names that don't reflect their given puns? Fuck, that's a good way to miss out on one of those nonsensical, whimsical shonen traits that makes DragonBall such a fun series.


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Last edited by Li'l Lemmy on Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Spazicon » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:33 pm

But Toriyama intentionally puts down a word SIMILAR to it, and not identical. Otherwise, where's the "PUN" if it's literally the word?

Think about it.

Prime example is Tapion, whose name was originally Tapioka. Too close to the original word, Toriyama says.

Remember kids, it's not a pun if it's literal.
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Post by Saiyan-Professor » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:02 pm

Li'l Lemmy wrote:For an English audience (read: you, me, us), I count Mr. Simmons' translations as the acceptable standard when it comes to names. T'aint sayin' that it's the only standard, a'course-- God knows that there's people out there who want their Toranksu-- but rather than sort through six different spellings of "Goku", I find it easier to defer to an expert opinion. I basically just spell everything the way he does...
I agree for the most part I will go with the Daizenshuu EX spelling and when they have not covered the name, I will go with the Simmons' spelling. In this instance, I will make an exception and go with Tarble. By the way, what ever happened to Daimaô/Simmons? I have not seen him post in quite awhile.
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Post by JulieYBM » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:19 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Li'l Lemmy wrote:For an English audience (read: you, me, us), I count Mr. Simmons' translations as the acceptable standard when it comes to names. T'aint sayin' that it's the only standard, a'course-- God knows that there's people out there who want their Toranksu-- but rather than sort through six different spellings of "Goku", I find it easier to defer to an expert opinion. I basically just spell everything the way he does...
I agree for the most part I will go with the Daizenshuu EX spelling and when they have not covered the name, I will go with the Simmons' spelling. In this instance, I will make an exception and go with Tarble. By the way, what ever happened to Daimaô/Simmons? I have not seen him post in quite awhile.
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Post by Rocketman » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:59 pm

Spazicon wrote:Remember kids, it's not a pun if it's literal.
Piccolo would like a word with you.

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Post by Dayspring » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:01 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Spazicon wrote:Remember kids, it's not a pun if it's literal.
Piccolo would like a word with you.
Piccolo's not a pun. Toriyama either takes random themes for names, or puns on random themes. In Piccolo's case, clearly the former.
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