Did Vegeta Physically Cast Out Babidi's Influence?

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:45 pm

I don't know if this is anime-only, but after Babidi finishes possesing Vegeta, he says, "And now, to bring out his true power beyond his limits!" So perhaps they were two separate spells as suggested earlier.

EDIT: Herms beat me to it.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:48 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:I don't know if this is anime-only, but after Babidi finishes possesing Vegeta, he says, "And now, to bring out his true power beyond his limits!" So perhaps they were two separate spells as suggested earlier.

EDIT: Herms beat me to it.

Yeah, that's the idea I've sorta subscribed to as well. In the Manga (I say this because I haven't seen the episode(s) in about 5 years) it seemed like a one-two punch-

Possession -> Latent Power release

The first phase didn't really finish...Babidi never had it "fail" so he didn't check before letting the power out, but the spell worked in the regard that it made Vegeta more ruthless, at least for a while (blowing up thousands of people and all).

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:03 pm

saiyanprincess wrote:So basically Vegeta's pride was actually enough to almost break the curse.

Ironically in a way it was his pride that made him decide to let himself be taken over by Babidi. Goku didn't think Vegeta's pride would let him be controlled, but it was his pride driving him the whole time, to fight Goku. I don't think he saw being taken over as Babidi as detrimental to his pride at all, because it was all part of his own plan. He was using Babidi, rather than being used by him.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:40 pm

Bussani wrote:
saiyanprincess wrote:So basically Vegeta's pride was actually enough to almost break the curse.
Ironically in a way it was his pride that made him decide to let himself be taken over by Babidi. Goku didn't think Vegeta's pride would let him be controlled, but it was his pride driving him the whole time, to fight Goku. I don't think he saw being taken over as Babidi as detrimental to his pride at all, because it was all part of his own plan. He was using Babidi, rather than being used by him.

In light of this conversation, I have become more of a Vegeta fan than I already was (if that was even possible). The guy deserves more credit, he pulled off more things than I believe other characters in the show could have. Moreover, regardless of Toriyama and Japanese fans bias he always came out on top in some capacity. Vegeta got over on Babidi the whole time.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:14 pm

I love how people are always like:

"Oh Vegeta cheated to get stronger by using babidi's magic!"

Um, how is that any different than Saichiro's Power up to Gohan and Krillin, or Goku using the Holy Water in Korin's place, or Gohan getting that spell/unlock thing done to him by Old Kai.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:24 pm

omegacwa wrote:I love how people are always like:

"Oh Vegeta cheated to get stronger by using Babidi's magic!"

Um, how is that any different than Sachiro's Power up to Gohan and Krillin, or Goku using the Holy Water in Korin's place, or Gohan geting that spell/unlock thing done to him by Old Kai.

Because apparently it's only cheating if you're the antagonist (at the moment).

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:46 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:In light of this conversation, I have become more of a Vegeta fan than I already was (if that was even possible). The guy deserves more credit, he pulled off more things than I believe other characters in the show could have. Moreover, regardless of Toriyama and Japanese fans bias he always came out on top in some capacity. Vegeta got over on Babidi the whole time.

Oh, I agree. Vegeta is definitely one of the more interesting characters in the story. It doesn't stop him from making some pretty selfish and/or dumb moves, but that could be said about most of the characters. No one's perfect.

omegacwa wrote:Um, how is that any different than Saichiro's Power up to Gohan and Krillin, or Goku using the Holy Water in Korin's place, or Gohan getting that spell/unlock thing done to him by Old Kai.

A lot of people call the Old Kai power up cheating too. In Gohan's case I think it's different though, since he was only getting stronger to save the world. He's not the sort of guy that trains just to improve his skills like a lot of the others.

Post by **Herms** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:42 am

omegacwa wrote:Um, how is that any different than Saichiro's Power up to Gohan and Krillin, or Goku using the Holy Water in Korin's place, or Gohan getting that spell/unlock thing done to him by Old Kai.

Well, the Super Holy Water actually turned out to be training in the end, and not an instant power-up. The promise of getting the instant power-up was the hook to make Goku go through the training. Unless you were thinking of the Super God Water, which was an instant power-up, although one you had to risk your life for.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:43 am

Herms wrote:
omegacwa wrote:Um, how is that any different than Saichiro's Power up to Gohan and Krillin, or Goku using the Holy Water in Korin's place, or Gohan getting that spell/unlock thing done to him by Old Kai.
Well, the Super Holy Water actually turned out to be training in the end, and not an instant power-up. The promise of getting the instant power-up was the hook to make Goku go through the training. Unless you were thinking of the Super God Water, which was an instant power-up, although one you had to risk your life for.

That's probably the one he meant. I always get them confused or forget the name of the Super God Water too.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:40 pm

Bussani wrote:
Herms wrote:
omegacwa wrote:Um, how is that any different than Saichiro's Power up to Gohan and Krillin, or Goku using the Holy Water in Korin's place, or Gohan getting that spell/unlock thing done to him by Old Kai.
Well, the Super Holy Water actually turned out to be training in the end, and not an instant power-up. The promise of getting the instant power-up was the hook to make Goku go through the training. Unless you were thinking of the Super God Water, which was an instant power-up, although one you had to risk your life for.
That's probably the one he meant. I always get them confused or forget the name of the Super God Water too.

Yep, that's what I meant, sorry for the confusion.

But in the end, Vegeta used the Majin Power Boost for good. So MEH!

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:57 pm

Well, when people talk about Vegeta "cheating," it has to do with the fact that he wants to beat Goku man to man in a duel, basically. He wants to prove he's the better man and he can take down Goku. When they were fighting Freeza and the rest it wasn't about proving who was better, it was about just surviving.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:30 pm

mAcChaos wrote:Well, when people talk about Vegeta "cheating," it has to do with the fact that he wants to beat Goku man to man in a duel, basically. He wants to prove he's the better man and he can take down Goku. When they were fighting Freeza and the rest it wasn't about proving who was better, it was about just surviving.

Yeah, well put. Out of all of those examples, Vegeta was the most selfish since he wasn't doing it to fight for something. Well, except his pride.

But like omegacwa said, he used his power for good in the end, so yeah.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:37 pm

mAcChaos wrote:Well, when people talk about Vegeta "cheating," it has to do with the fact that he wants to beat Goku man to man in a duel, basically. He wants to prove he's the better man and he can take down Goku. When they were fighting Freeza and the rest it wasn't about proving who was better, it was about just surviving.

But then they whine about him 'cheating' to go SSJ4.

Y'know, which was totally different from Goku, who had no help from anyone.

jda95 · Post by **jda95** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:43 pm

Rocketman wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:Well, when people talk about Vegeta "cheating," it has to do with the fact that he wants to beat Goku man to man in a duel, basically. He wants to prove he's the better man and he can take down Goku. When they were fighting Freeza and the rest it wasn't about proving who was better, it was about just surviving.
But then they whine about him 'cheating' to go SSJ4.

Y'know, which was totally different from Goku, who had no help from anyone.

SSJ4 in hindsight is a pretty stupid stage. You can skip SSJ2 and 3 to get to an immensely powerful stage just from looking at the moon.

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:04 pm

jda95 wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:Well, when people talk about Vegeta "cheating," it has to do with the fact that he wants to beat Goku man to man in a duel, basically. He wants to prove he's the better man and he can take down Goku. When they were fighting Freeza and the rest it wasn't about proving who was better, it was about just surviving.
But then they whine about him 'cheating' to go SSJ4.

Y'know, which was totally different from Goku, who had no help from anyone.
SSJ4 in hindsight is a pretty stupid stage. You can skip SSJ2 and 3 to get to an immensely powerful stage just from looking at the moon.

But Goku had a lot of challenge there, he had to focus, as a great ape.
Think of you waking up in the morning, and you are an ape. You have never been an ape before.
You think like an ape. And then, you are supposed to concentrate.

Whilst Vegeta already had woken up as an ape before, and could concentrate easily.

It's not the ray that makes it stupid, it's the lack of effort from Vegeta's side.

And I hope that you realise by this point that I'm just screwing around.

I have a quastion though: Is it ever implied that the powerup from Babidi disappeared after Vegeta died?
If it was so, wouldn't it be odd, as his dormant powers are released?
They never said that Kuririn, for instance, got weaker/lost his powerup after getting revived (after Freeza saga).

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:12 pm

I would assume his power up didn't go away, but rather the insane durability of the Majin Charm probably did.

saiyanprincess · Post by **saiyanprincess** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:23 pm

Terra-jin wrote:
saiyanprincess wrote:Or in Vegeta's eyes not loose control, but give him additional power and revive his dark side.
It's ironic that even during his time as Majin Vegeta, he actually became even less of a dark prince than he was before the charm. He wanted to return to his life as a space pirate, but part of him already knew that it was wrong. It's like Vegeta realized that the life he lost was just a senseless dream - it shows character to accept such a thing as quickly as Vegeta did it.

"I've always wanted to be truly evil again... but now that I'm reliving it, it doesn't seem at all right anymore. Feh, I might as well accept the fact that I'm an Earthling now, with all their 'weak, little emotions'..."

That is very much true. Thanks for the quote!

It is after this change that we begin to see the true caring side of Vegeta. It is almost like a change inside of him.