Akira Toriyama Quitting Dragonball

[Sn4tcH]

Is there any sources to the old rumors that Toriyama wanted to quit Dragonball after the Freeza or Cell arcs?

[Herms]

There's nothing specifically saying when he wanted to stop, but in his little farewell message at the end of the last chapter, he mentions having wanted to end it for awhile. Something like that.

[JAMM]

Did he want to make Gohan the main character after the cell saga?

[Herms]

Yes, but he says he then felt that Gohan wasn't suited to be the protagonist (this from Toriyama's Daizenshuu 2 interview).

[Saiyan-Professor]

Yes, but he says he then felt that Gohan wasn't suited to be the protagonist (this from Toriyama's Daizenshuu 2 interview).

Toriyama was a very wise man.

[Zuhalter2000]

Yes, but he says he then felt that Gohan wasn't suited to be the protagonist (this from Toriyama's Daizenshuu 2 interview).

Considering what he turned into after the Cell Games... Gosh, I'm still disappointed in him and his wasted potential

[Rocketman]

Considering what he was always, before during and after the Cell Games, which is a whiny little bitch...

Fixed that for ya, buddy.

[ultimatedbzfan]

Considering what he was always, before during and after the Cell Games, which is a whiny little bitch...

Fixed that for ya, buddy. :)

Rocketman. Why all the hate against Gohan?

[Dayspring]

Considering what he was always, before during and after the Cell Games, which is a whiny little bitch...

Fixed that for ya, buddy.

Rocketman. Why all the hate against Gohan?

It's a very valid point considering he was to become the protagonist of a fighting manga. He comes off as whiny in the Saiyan saga, understandably so, but still. In the Freeza saga it's laid a little too thick considering this is when he's supposed to have grown out of that phase, and then he's reverted to being whiny in the Cell saga ("the gravity is too high, it's hot and it's hard to breathe! And Piccolo's hurt!" Shup up and train!).

And I'm sure everybody agrees he was a whiny bitch post-Cell, as that was done for the humor.

[B]

I think he said he was gonig to end it after the Pilaf arc due to low popularity, but the 21st Tenakichi Budokai was when the series DID gain popularity, so he went on.

There's also a lot of clues that point to him wanting to end the series at Friea and Cell. I beleive he said himself that "the Cell arc was a huge mess" I'm paraphrasing here, probably due to his editors constantly making him alter enemies until they decided on Perfect Cell.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Considering what he was always, before during and after the Cell Games, which is a whiny little bitch...

Fixed that for ya, buddy.

Rocketman. Why all the hate against Gohan?

We hate on them because Son Gohan, Kakarrot and Son Goten suck Ôzaru size ass.

[jda95]

Fixed that for ya, buddy.

Rocketman. Why all the hate against Gohan?

We hate on them because Son Gohan, Kakarrot and Son Goten suck Ôzaru size ass.

........Why?

[Saiyan-Professor]

Rocketman. Why all the hate against Gohan?

We hate on them because Son Gohan, Kakarrot and Son Goten suck Ôzaru size ass.

........Why?

All the reasons mentioned above and many good characters were screwed over in order for those three to shine when most of the time they did not deserve it at all.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

All the reasons mentioned above and many good characters were screwed over in order for those three to shine when most of the time they did not deserve it at all.

*blink*

When did Gohan or Goten "shine" any more than anybody else? Goku is the main character of course, it's like expecting Ron Weasely to defeat the final enemy in a Harry Potter book.

Gohan's only "shining" moment that I can think of is his own fun personal mini-arc with the whole Saiyaman bit. And Goten...got nothing. At all. He was half of a loser, tops. =p

Dragonball isn't pro wrestlling. The point isn't who wins, it's watching a fun cartoon. Originally for children.

[Saiyan-Professor]

All the reasons mentioned above and many good characters were screwed over in order for those three to shine when most of the time they did not deserve it at all.

*blink*

When did Gohan or Goten "shine" any more than anybody else? Goku is the main character of course, it's like expecting Ron Weasely to defeat the final enemy in a Harry Potter book.

Gohan's only "shining" moment that I can think of is his own fun personal mini-arc with the whole Saiyaman bit. And Goten...got nothing. At all. He was half of a loser, tops. =p

Dragonball isn't pro wrestlling. The point isn't who wins, it's watching a fun cartoon. Originally for children.

Son Gohan could access more power than the others when he got mad, he even managed to almost do 3rd Form Freeza in, he also got Super Saiyan 2 before anyone else and he received that Ultimate power-up. Kakarrot, Son Goten and Trunks received Super Saiyan 3. What did Vegeta, Piccolo and Tenshinhan get that was worthwhile? Hardly anything at all and they was far better warriors and yes they were better than Kakarrot.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

All the reasons mentioned above and many good characters were screwed over in order for those three to shine when most of the time they did not deserve it at all.

*blink*

When did Gohan or Goten "shine" any more than anybody else? Goku is the main character of course, it's like expecting Ron Weasely to defeat the final enemy in a Harry Potter book.

Gohan's only "shining" moment that I can think of is his own fun personal mini-arc with the whole Saiyaman bit. And Goten...got nothing. At all. He was half of a loser, tops. =p

Dragonball isn't pro wrestlling. The point isn't who wins, it's watching a fun cartoon. Originally for children.

Son Gohan could access more power than the others when he got mad, he even managed to almost do 3rd Form Freeza in, he also got Super Saiyan 2 before anyone else and he received that Ultimate power-up. Kakarrot, Son Goten and Trunks received Super Saiyan 3. What did Vegeta, Piccolo and Tenshinhan get that was worthwhile? Hardly anything at all and they was far better warriors and yes they were better than Kakarrot.

You didn't mention Goten. And besides, we're dealing with fusions. Goten can't get there on his OWN. Who else do you want to reach SSJ 3? Oolong? We don't have any other Saiyans.

Gohan getting that anger power-up is no different than:

-Vegeta's zenkais.
-Piccolo fusing with Nail
-Piccolo fusing with Kami
-Piccolo trapping Buu in the Room of Spirit and Time
-Piccolo's fight with Super Buu
-Tenshinhan holding back Cell
-Kuririn's power getting awakened by the Namekian Elder

It's all just their moment to shine before Goku comes in to save the day.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...
You didn't mention Goten. And besides, we're dealing with fusions. Goten can't get there on his OWN. Who else do you want to reach SSJ 3? Oolong? We don't have any other Saiyans.

Gohan getting that anger power-up is no different than:

-Vegeta's zenkais.
-Piccolo fusing with Nail
-Piccolo fusing with Kami
-Piccolo trapping Buu in the Room of Spirit and Time
-Piccolo's fight with Super Buu
-Tenshinhan holding back Cell
-Kuririn's power getting awakened by the Namekian Elder

It's all just their moment to shine before Goku comes in to save the day.

Come on of all people you are going to give those two little kids the most powerful form of Super Saiyan at that time. If anyone deserved it, Vegeta did. Yeah the others may have experienced those things early on but during the final battle for the universe against Majin Buu everyone was pretty much useless, that was when they should have been used but no...Son Gohan had to get it and he screwed that up.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

Come on of all people you are going to give those two little kids the most powerful form of Super Saiyan at that time. If anyone deserved it, Vegeta did. Yeah the others may have experienced those things early on but during the final battle for the universe against Majin Buu everyone was pretty much useless, that was when they should have been used but no...Son Gohan had to get it and he screwed that up.

I don't see why not. If you say the kids got too much power, then Vegeta DID have power in the final battle. He had that whole Vegetto thing going for him, and Vegetto was definitely more powerful than Gotenks. Like that even matters for anything.

The number after SSJ means nothing really. Vegetto had more power than either of the Super Saiyan 3s.

Vegeta also had two redemption scenes. One with his suicide attack on Majin Buu, and again at the very end.

Further than that, Goku didn't even really defeat Majin Buu. Not by himself. He needed the willing cooperation of everyone he'd ever met, plus millions or billions of inhabitants of Earth, PLUS a recharge thanks to the side characters, to finally beat Buu in the end.

[Bussani]

It's a very valid point considering he was to become the protagonist of a fighting manga. He comes off as whiny in the Saiyan saga, understandably so, but still. In the Freeza saga it's laid a little too thick considering this is when he's supposed to have grown out of that phase, and then he's reverted to being whiny in the Cell saga ("the gravity is too high, it's hot and it's hard to breathe! And Piccolo's hurt!" Shup up and train!).

And I'm sure everybody agrees he was a whiny bitch post-Cell, as that was done for the humor.

Hm, Gohan may not be my favorite character, but I actually like his development. He was whiny at first, and whiny here and there in the Freeza saga (but he never seemed overly so if you ask me, always willing to fly into danger to help someone).

As for the Cell saga, I just took his 'the gravity is high and it's hard to breath' comment as the usual outward monologueing all characters in shounen manga do, otherwise we wouldn't know about the gravity and air. I bet Goku sajd the exact same thing when he first entered the RoSaT by himself.

As for when Piccolo was hurt, he wasn't the only one ready to run off and help. Goku was holding himself back too, because he had more experience and knew the best way to help was to train. Really, I think it was written with Gohan having such an outburst just to show the reader what Goku was thinking, but that's not really an excuse.

Then once they began training, Gohan really pushed himself because he knew how important it was, thanks to Goku and Mr Popo. He pushed himself harder than Goku expected and trained even without his help. If you ask me, this was the defining moment of his character, as someone who was willing to do anything when it meant protecting the world and his friends.

After the Cell saga Gohan was less interesting, I'll admit that. Like I've said before, he's not a fighter by nature, he's a fighter by necessity. 7 years of peace is a long time.

Vegeta also had two redemption scenes. One with his suicide attack on Majin Buu, and again at the very end.

I'm going to have to agree with this. Power isn't everything. Vegeta and Piccolo are probably the best written characters in the story.

I think there's something tragic about Vegeta's character. He tries so hard, but never quite comes out on top. I kind of like it about him though, especially when he admits it and seems to come to terms with it at the very end. To me, it makes his whole plan to save the world thing even more meaningful in a way.

[Bejiita]

Further than that, Goku didn't even really defeat Majin Buu. Not by himself. He needed the willing cooperation of everyone he'd ever met, plus millions or billions of inhabitants of Earth, PLUS a recharge thanks to the side characters, to finally beat Buu in the end.

You have to remember that Goku said himself that he had enough power to finish of Kid Buu when he was a SSJ3, it was Vegeta's pride being damaged that was stopping Goku from just ending it when he had to. When he ran out of power for fucking about, that's when he said this. So you have to believe him there, it came from his own mouth, same as when he could have killed Fat Buu, but instead wanted the kids to do it as he was rightfully a part of the afterlife now and for some reason it wasn't right (just an excuse for Toriyama to bring in the fusions and a way to make the Buu sage a bit longer and better).

This is all off topic to what what this thread is meant to be about.

On topic, Akira Toriyama was planning on quitting DB several time, the ones I heard were true were after the Red Ribbon era in DB, then he said after the real end of DB, then after the Freeza saga, and finally Cell one after that. All of these were meant to be said in translated interviews from the Daizenshuu books. Since I can't read Japanese, who knows if it was true.

Toriyama was an unpredictable guy though, many things he has mentioned in interviews are worth noting, he always wanted to give the fans things they wouldn't expect, everyone thought Goku would win the 1st tournament (in DB), so he made him lose purposely. After changing his art style to help the animators jobs easier by using straighter lines, one letter from a fan saying the older style was better was all it took for him to think otherwise and go back t old style (even though he didn't he considered it, and still used the old stye for certain pictures in his manga after he was told to change his style).