How come Tien wasn't in the Buu Saga much?

[Saiyan-Professor]

Man, I really just want to make an immature joke here and write that the real reason Tenshinhan didn't show up during the Buu saga because he was too busy hiding from Lunch. Her evil side was constantly stalking the long warrior and when she finally cornered him in mountain tops some where, she forced herself onto his body...Tee-hee. But I understand this was serious question that deserved a legitimate answer.

On the serious note, I try not to look to much into it. Tenshinhan just became useless a useless character after a while. Believe me He's is one of my FAVORITE characters but even I knew was he never going appear much (if at all) after the Cell Saga. It's hard to write for a character that can't really tribute anything to the story anymore and throwing a ultra powerful, secret, bullshit, plot device, technique just to make him relevant again probably wouldn't be believable to the reader or the viewer. It was best to just make him fade into the shadows...

Wait second....Why does "secret, ultra, powerful, plot device, bullshit technique" ring a bell?

If it worked for Kakarrot (Super Saiyan 3) and Son Gohan (Ultimate power up), why not Tenshinhan, he deserved some kind BS move to make him relevant again.

[caejones]

Man, I really just want to make an immature joke here and write that the real reason Tenshinhan didn't show up during the Buu saga because he was too busy hiding from Lunch. Her evil side was constantly stalking the long warrior and when she finally cornered him in mountain tops some where, she forced herself onto his body...Tee-hee. But I understand this was serious question that deserved a legitimate answer.

On the serious note, I try not to look to much into it. Tenshinhan just became useless a useless character after a while. Believe me He's is one of my FAVORITE characters but even I knew was he never going appear much (if at all) after the Cell Saga. It's hard to write for a character that can't really tribute anything to the story anymore and throwing a ultra powerful, secret, bullshit, plot device, technique just to make him relevant again probably wouldn't be believable to the reader or the viewer. It was best to just make him fade into the shadows...

Wait second....Why does "secret, ultra, powerful, plot device, bullshit technique" ring a bell?

If it worked for Kakarrot (Super Saiyan 3) and Son Gohan (Ultimate power up), why not Tenshinhan, he deserved some kind BS move to make him relevant again.

For the same reason Vegeta, Trunks and Yamcha didn't get any... (though of the three, Trunks (future) would have been most likely given the pattern we see). Typically, if you train to surpass Goku, how much you deserve to do so is irrelvent: you just won't. . (Meanwhile, Gohan didn't care, and thus wound up getting to surpass his father. ).

That aside, though...
I think Toriyama just didn't like writing Ten-type characters (See Future Trunks being short-lived, among other things...). I think he liked the characters and might have wanted to use them more (He did admit he would have kept Future Trunks if he'd known how things would continue after Cell), but then you have to think about motivations and what's gone on since the last arc and if their characters have anywhere to go... and the Buu saga was dominated by Vegeta and the Son family, with Kuririn and Piccolo getting a little. (Compare Buu-saga Piccolo to Saiyan-saga Piccolo, though... do the same for T'en, while we're at it. XD ).

I think T'en's character was pretty much completed when he chose not to go into the RoSaT. (though his death in the Saiyan saga kinda works had the series ended with Freeza). His encounter with semi-perfect Cell was something of a victory in that he came out alive and it actually accomplished something, but in the end it didn't take down Cell, who was way stronger... and Goku was planning to fight Cell on top of all of that. It's kinda like how T'en didn't go with the Kaioken while dead, as he knew following Goku's pattern would leave him a step behind; once we get to Cell, it's pretty apparent that even though he can contribute, it no longer matters how far forward he tries to take what he has... and... umm... I'm done now.

[temujin]

I'll give Tenshinhan credit for managing to survive his arm getting punched off, but he doesn't really contribute any afterwards; he just musses up Nappa's armor and kicks the bucket.

Yeah, but that's as much as anyone did, including Piccolo, until Goku arrived. And besides, self sacrificing is always cool, that's why that and his Shin Kikoho craziness on Cell are some of my favourite moments in the series.

I might be running a Tenshinhan blog instead if the three-eyed git didn't have two excellent fan sites for him all ready. (And doesn't seem to be the type of guy you can rib too much anyway)

Tenshinhan made it clear that after the battle with Cell was over that the other Z-Senshi probably was not going to see him anymore after that battle. Therefore, his appearance during the Buu arc was a treat. In addition, it is sad that Toriyama could not allow him to at least keep up to Piccolo’s level of strength. Toriyama could have explored Tenshinhan’s alien ancestry in order for him to gain access to more power.

Can you Private Message the links to the Tenshinhan websites you mentioned?

I agree!

Toriyama did have a means to increase Tenshinhan’s power. His alien ancestry could have been the means to accomplish this. Perhaps Toriyama could have devised a way for him to tap into some latent power that he inherited from his ancestors that he was not aware.

So obvious!Toriyama could use kaiohken to increase Tenshinhan’s power,
considering that he had a copy eye,but hey after so many time training with kaioh even more than Goku there isn't any mention about kaiohken regarding Tenshinhan,i guess
it wouldn't be believable to the reader or the viewer too.

He could have finally sat Kuririn down and replaced him with Tenshinhan. Kuririn wanted to settle down anyway. I am glad Tenshinhan made an appearance in the Buu Saga and from his actions; he was far stronger than he was during the Cell story arc.

So true,considering that Daizenshuu states Tenshinhan's harsh training during those 7 years.

If it worked for Kakarrot (Super Saiyan 3) and Son Gohan (Ultimate power up), why not Tenshinhan, he deserved some kind BS move to make him relevant again.

Perfect!
And let's not forget Piccolo's multiple assimilations in the story to give him power,maybe it is another ultra, powerful, plot device, bullshit, to make him relevant.

[Scarz]

Toriyama could have explored Tenshinhan’s alien ancestry in order for him to gain access to more power.

Tenshinhan's an alien? I just thought he had demon ancestors which would explain his third eye.

[Bussani]

Toriyama could have explored Tenshinhan’s alien ancestry in order for him to gain access to more power.

Tenshinhan's an alien? I just thought he had demon ancestors which would explain his third eye.

He has alien ancestors, which explains the third eye. Although demons would make just as much sense.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...So obvious!Toriyama could use kaiohken to increase Tenshinhan’s power, considering that he had a copy eye,but hey after so many time training with kaioh even more than Goku there isn't any mention about kaiohken regarding Tenshinhan,i guess it wouldn't be believable to the reader or the viewer too..

Lol..I forgot Tenshinhan had the precursor to the Sharingan. Yeah, that would have been a good thing if the other humans or at least Tenshinhan had acquired the Kaiô-Ken. Given his years of training he could have done a lot more during the Cell and Buu arcs with the Kaiô-Ken x10.

Toriyama could have explored Tenshinhan’s alien ancestry in order for him to gain access to more power.

Tenshinhan's an alien? I just thought he had demon ancestors which would explain his third eye.

He has alien ancestors, which explains the third eye. Although demons would make just as much sense.

I believe the only reason why the alien ancestry thing seems weird is that Toriyama never did anything with it in the story. It looks as if like when the editors/writers of the Daizenshuu went to Toriyama and asked him how do they explain Tenshinhan’s third eye and unique abilities he sat there and pulled something out of his ass. “Uhh…we can say that he has alien ancestry….uhh, I know the “three eyed people”!

[temujin]

Lol..I forgot Tenshinhan had the precursor to the Sharingan. Yeah, that would have been a good thing if the other humans or at least Tenshinhan had acquired the Kaiô-Ken. Given his years of training he could have done a lot more during the Cell and Buu arcs with the Kaiô-Ken x10.

He could even use kaiokenx20,if i remember well goku used kaioken x20 at some point and that would be a big boost in power.

[Rocketman]

Lol..I forgot Tenshinhan had the precursor to the Sharingan. Yeah, that would have been a good thing if the other humans or at least Tenshinhan had acquired the Kaiô-Ken. Given his years of training he could have done a lot more during the Cell and Buu arcs with the Kaiô-Ken x10.

That would put him around one million and still useless.

[temujin]

Lol..I forgot Tenshinhan had the precursor to the Sharingan. Yeah, that would have been a good thing if the other humans or at least Tenshinhan had acquired the Kaiô-Ken. Given his years of training he could have done a lot more during the Cell and Buu arcs with the Kaiô-Ken x10.

That would put him around one million and still useless.

And that is your opinion.

[Rocketman]

Lol..I forgot Tenshinhan had the precursor to the Sharingan. Yeah, that would have been a good thing if the other humans or at least Tenshinhan had acquired the Kaiô-Ken. Given his years of training he could have done a lot more during the Cell and Buu arcs with the Kaiô-Ken x10.

That would put him around one million and still useless.

And that is your opinion.

Then tell me yours, clucky.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Lol..I forgot Tenshinhan had the precursor to the Sharingan. Yeah, that would have been a good thing if the other humans or at least Tenshinhan had acquired the Kaiô-Ken. Given his years of training he could have done a lot more during the Cell and Buu arcs with the Kaiô-Ken x10.

That would put him around one million and still useless.

How do you come to that conclusion?

[Rocketman]

How do you come to that conclusion?

1. Tien dies a little above 1000.
2. He trains on King Kai's for about 2/3 of a year.
-Goku got a 20x increase from training for five or six months; for the sake of simplicitly, I shall assume Tien's longer training and higher start balances out him not being Saiyan and say he got a 20x increase too.
3. Tien comes back to Earth about 20,000.
-He trains for the Androids, but he trains alone/with Chiaotzu and without any other aid.
4. Arrives to fight the Androids at 30,000.
-Kaioken x10 = 300,000.

So I was wrong. He wouldn't even get near one million.

[Wojak]

How do you come to that conclusion?

1. Tenshinhan dies a little above 1000.
2. He trains on King Kai's for about 2/3 of a year.
-Goku got a 20x increase from training for five or six months; for the sake of simplicitly, I shall assume Tenshinhan's longer training and higher start balances out him not being Saiyan and say he got a 20x increase too.
3. Tenshinhan comes back to Earth about 20,000.
-He trains for the Androids, but he trains alone/with Chiaotzu and without any other aid.
4. Arrives to fight the Androids at 30,000.
-Kaioken x10 = 300,000.

So I was wrong. He wouldn't even get near one million.

He could with that power hold back Semi Perfect Cell. With three times the power he could have done something more.
Like holding him back for twice that time.
And nothing would change.

EDIT: Had to do it before someone else did.

[Saiyan-Professor]

How do you come to that conclusion?

1. Tenshinhan dies a little above 1000.
2. He trains on King Kai's for about 2/3 of a year.
-Goku got a 20x increase from training for five or six months; for the sake of simplicitly, I shall assume Tenshinhan's longer training and higher start balances out him not being Saiyan and say he got a 20x increase too.
3. Tenshinhan comes back to Earth about 20,000.
-He trains for the Androids, but he trains alone/with Chiaotzu and without any other aid.
4. Arrives to fight the Androids at 30,000.
-Kaioken x10 = 300,000.

So I was wrong. He wouldn't even get near one million.

Where did you get those combat strength numbers?

How do you come to that conclusion?

1. Tenshinhan dies a little above 1000.
2. He trains on King Kai's for about 2/3 of a year.
-Goku got a 20x increase from training for five or six months; for the sake of simplicitly, I shall assume Tenshinhan's longer training and higher start balances out him not being Saiyan and say he got a 20x increase too.
3. Tenshinhan comes back to Earth about 20,000.
-He trains for the Androids, but he trains alone/with Chiaotzu and without any other aid.
4. Arrives to fight the Androids at 30,000.
-Kaioken x10 = 300,000.

So I was wrong. He wouldn't even get near one million.

He could with that power hold back Semi Perfect Cell. With three times the power he could have done something more.
Like holding him back for twice that time.
And nothing would change.

EDIT: Had to do it before someone else did.

Tenshinhan could have done much more than people realize with Kaiô-Ken. I do not trust that 30,000 number until I see proof that it showed up either in the manga, anime or Daizenshuu. The way Toriyama likes to exaggerate numbers I would put Tenshinhan in the millions even before using Kaiô-Ken. By the time of the Buu Saga he would have been a beast.

[Wojak]

Tenshinhan could have done much more than people realize with Kaiô-Ken. I do not trust that 30,000 number until I see proof that it showed up either in the manga, anime or Daizenshuu. The way Toriyama likes to exaggerate numbers I would put Tenshinhan in the millions even before using Kaiô-Ken. By the time of the Buu Saga he would have been a beast.

Goku had a hard time keeping up with 50x Freeza with his kaio-ken x20 and he was 3.000.000 in power at that time. Even at the same level, we see that even though Goku has the power, it's hard to keep up with the enemy, because of that it's a complicated technique that wears out the user.

Let's say that Tenshinhan reached 6.000.000 at the Androids saga. He still would have reached only 120.000.000 with kaio-ken x20. That's Freeza's level.
Sure he could have used the Shin Kikoho then, but wouldn't you think that Cell would have let him do that? He would have felt Tenshinhan's power and not been surprised, and taken him down.
And Tenshinhan wouldn't have the time to perform the kaio-ken since Cell would have felt the sudden rise in power.
At that time, any fighter with Freeza's level was a piece of cake to take care of. Even the androids wouldn't have a problem with that.

Sure, at the Buu saga, he would have been a beast. But still, I doubt that he would have been of any use, since Buu (the Fat one) was only a match for a SSJ3.
Only Gotenks, Vegetto and Gohan could take care of Buu.

And as a last note: If Kaio-ken was so effective, why didn't Piccolo use it?
If Tenshinhan could have learned it, Piccolo would too.
And then Piccolo would have been super-strong, leaving Tenshinhan in the shadows again.

It's all about the story in the end, and I doubt that Toriyama wanted lots of overpowered heroes to take care of the main villains.
Tenshinhan and the humans were used-up and thrown into the trash-can.
Krillin barely was of any help against second form Freeza. And that after having his powers unlocked.

[Kingdom Heartless]

And as a last note: If Kaio-ken was so effective, why didn't Piccolo use it?
If Tenshinhan could have learned it, Piccolo would too.
And then Piccolo would have been super-strong, leaving Tenshinhan in the shadows again.

I assume that Piccolo did most of his Kaio planet training on his own, and probably wouldn't have been learning any techniques from Kaio.

[Rocketman]

Where did you get those combat strength numbers?

The only one stated is that he was a bit over 1000 when he died. The rest was my figuring.

The way Toriyama likes to exaggerate numbers I would put Tenshinhan in the millions even before using Kaiô-Ken. By the time of the Buu Saga he would have been a beast.

Alright then. Tien somehow gets up to five million before fighting the Androids (HA!). With Kaioken x20, that's still 'only' 100,000,000, weaker than Freeza's full power and much weaker than SSJ Goku on Namek. Tien is still useless.

[Wojak]

And as a last note: If Kaio-ken was so effective, why didn't Piccolo use it?
If Tenshinhan could have learned it, Piccolo would too.
And then Piccolo would have been super-strong, leaving Tenshinhan in the shadows again.

I assume that Piccolo did most of his Kaio planet training on his own, and probably wouldn't have been learning any techniques from Kaio.

Piccolo merged with Kami, whom he hated intensely.
I doubt that he wouldn't take the opportunity to learn the technique if it wasn't effective enough for him.
And also, Tenshinhan never learned it. Maybe he wasn't measured as capable enough.

[Rocketman]

Piccolo merged with Kami, whom he hated intensely.
I doubt that he wouldn't take the opportunity to learn the technique if it wasn't effective enough for him.
And also, Tenshinhan never learned it. Maybe he wasn't measured as capable enough.

Piccolo was there for six days. He didn't have time to learn it.

[Bussani]

Even if Tenshinhan was as strong as the base forms of the Saiyajin (which I think he could have reached, but was never explicitly shown to after Vegeta and Nappa) and learned kaioken up to x20, that still puts him far below a standard Super Saiyajin. And standard Super Saiyajin were getting their asses handed to them at that point.

It would make him better, sure. But as Rocketman is saying, it wouldn't make a big difference unless he could go beyond kaioken x50.