Extent of Majin Buu's magical abilities.

B · Post by B » Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:53 pm

It's pretty much established throughout the series that Shenron/Shenlong is relatively weak. King Piccolo kills him, and he can't perform wishes on the Artificial Humans due to them being much more powerful. By simple deduction, Majin Buu is stronger than Shenlong as well. Is it entirely out of the realm of possibilty that Buu could, perhaps, bring a planet and all it's people back to life with his magic? I would mention he brought Satan and Bee back to life, but I'm not entirely sure they were dead to begin with, and not just passed out. We see Buu do little things such as rig numbers at the final TB, turn people and things into well, other things, and change his facial features(although, that may be Toriyama just having fun with his final saga instead of Buu having an *actual* power to change his face).

But there is the debate as to whether ki and magic are two seperate entities or if they follow some sort of similar pattern. While Buu may have more ki/a higher power level than Shenlong, that wouldn't necissarily mean his magical powers are greater. Then there's the rules of the Dragon Balls, which Buu is not tied to. Theoretically, he could bring people back who had been dead for over a year, perform the same wish twice, revive those who died of natural causes, etc.

Thoughts?

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:27 pm

Um, I don't think the powers of the androids had anything to do with Shenlong not granting Kuririn's "Turn the humans with stuff in their arms human!" wish.

That aside... While Buu does some geni-like things (:lol: ddjin refference), there are many things we don't see him do... for instance, when Mr. Satan turned him good, he didn't bother trying to undo the damage he'd done.
On the other hand, human Genecide attack is pretty Shenlongian...

Only in reverse!

I think Buu as a Geni (Babidi totally doesn't count XD ) could be ... entertaining.

.

(I don't think he can resurrect the dead, but can heal the mortally wounded (Babidi, Bee, Mr. Satan); I doubt he could fix someone who's a pile of bones, but that could be interesting to see him try. Anyone wanna email it to Toriyama?

)

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:32 pm

I don't think that Bibidi would create a being with greater magic powers than himself, and Bibidi was physically weak too.
It seemed a lot like that most of Buu's powers were "magical tricks", and maybe the magic theme there was because of the "Bibbity Boppity Boo" thing.
Other than the regeneration and healing, we only see his henka-beam and also his ability to to what he wants with his body, but that's probably because of that he seems to be made of bubble-gum (probably Toriyama wanted the final villain to be a bubble-gum monster!).
Myself, I believe that ki and magic are separate entities.
Kami was well around the 300 in power, and I doubt that Dende was at that level, being a kid and all, and still he could make more powerful Dragonballs than Kami.
Magic probably has to do a lot with skill, and also the state of the spirit (good/evil).

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:14 pm

caejones wrote:Um, I don't think the powers of the androids had anything to do with Shenlong not granting Kuririn's "Turn the humans with stuff in their arms human!" wish.

Shenlong says "their power is too great and strange".

Anyway, magic and ki... I think the Daizensuu state that the real difference is that using ki tires you out and using magic does not. Like ki comes from within, magic is commanding external energies somehow.

Buu supposedly does have strong magical powers. He's probably more powerful than Kami/Dende in terms of raw power, but I think the dragon balls are special, designed especially to do what they do. I don't think Buu can grant wishes like bringing lots of people back to life, but he certainly can restore their bodies if they're injured. Babidi got karate chopped in half and Buu healed him.

Bibidi probably didn't have the knowledge to create something that can do what the dragon balls do. Just because you have strong magic doesn't mean you know every spell, you know?

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:22 pm

Wojak wrote:I don't think that Bibidi would create a being with greater magic powers than himself, and Bibidi was physically weak too.

I maybe wrong, but I though it was said Bibidi "summoned" Buu, rather than created him.

B · Post by B » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:29 pm

I suppose there's not a real instance where Buu does something with magic that's on or near the level of the Dragon Balls to make my assumptions. And yeah, Shenlong was created for the sole purpose of granting wishes, while Buu simply has magic powers.

Post by **Herms** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:34 pm

Bussani wrote:Anyway, magic and ki... I think the Daizensuu state that the real difference is that using ki tires you out and using magic does not. Like ki comes from within, magic is commanding external energies somehow.

The line in question is from Daizenshuu 4's attack classification section, under sorcery:

Techniques used by the wizard Babidi. Unlike ki manipulation techniques, these don't exhaust one's stamina.

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:50 pm

Bussani wrote:Anyway, magic and ki... I think the Daizensuu state that the real difference is that using ki tires you out and using magic does not. Like ki comes from within, magic is commanding external energies somehow.

This reminds me of a certain something...

ImmortalSandwich · Post by **ImmortalSandwich** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:06 pm

I don't see Buu as having magic powers comparable to Babidi or the dragon balls, but rather, he's just telepathic, like Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu. While he has some unique abilities which can be classified as "magic", such as turning people into candy, I think that's something completely different than resurrecting the dead. Now that raises the question of, did Kami ever have the ability to resurrect the dead to begin with? Because I can't remember him ever using anything comparable to "magic" once, other than creating the dragon balls.

Also, I'm pretty sure Mr. Satan and Bee weren't dead, but just really hurt and unconscious, and Buu probably just used his powers to heal them. Weather or not that was magic or just manipulation of his own ki is debatable.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:35 am

Herms wrote:
Bussani wrote:Anyway, magic and ki... I think the Daizensuu state that the real difference is that using ki tires you out and using magic does not. Like ki comes from within, magic is commanding external energies somehow.
The line in question is from Daizenshuu 4's attack classification section, under sorcery:

Techniques used by the wizard Babidi. Unlike ki manipulation techniques, these don't exhaust one's stamina.

Thanks Herms, that's the one I was thinking of.

MisterFlashdude wrote:
Bussani wrote:Anyway, magic and ki... I think the Daizensuu state that the real difference is that using ki tires you out and using magic does not. Like ki comes from within, magic is commanding external energies somehow.
This reminds me of a certain something...

Neat, I haven't read that far in Negi Magi yet, but that is the definition I always went with. My favorite style of magic is from Slayers (novels, anime, whichever) where magic draws on spiritual energy from Mazoku (demons), Shinzoku (Gods) and natural elements/elementals/spirits. Basically it's like each spell is a genki dama that draws on a specific source, and depending on the nature of that source, the spell comes out differently (so a fire spirit's energy would cause a fire based spell).

I don't think magic and ki are too different in substance in fiction like these. It's just where you get them, how you get them and what you use them for that differs.

ImmortalSandwich wrote:I don't see Buu as having magic powers comparable to Babidi or the dragon balls, but rather, he's just telepathic, like Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu. While he has some unique abilities which can be classified as "magic", such as turning people into candy, I think that's something completely different than resurrecting the dead. Now that raises the question of, did Kami ever have the ability to resurrect the dead to begin with? Because I can't remember him ever using anything comparable to "magic" once, other than creating the dragon balls.

Also, I'm pretty sure Mr. Satan and Bee weren't dead, but just really hurt and unconscious, and Buu probably just used his powers to heal them. Weather or not that was magic or just manipulation of his own ki is debatable.

Kami's never shown doing anything too powerful with his magic. He possessed that one human, but that's about it. To be honest, do we even know if the dragon balls are created using ki or using magic? I suppose neither he nor Dende seemed tired after reactivating them, so maybe magic.

Either way, just because the dragon can grant a wish I don't think that means Kami or Dende have that power. They created the dragon balls especially to do that sort of thing -- if they could do it themselves, why would they need to do that?

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:21 am

Negima!

That manga is pretty creepy, but it's one of my favourites!

Kroni_Hunter · Post by **Kroni_Hunter** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:41 pm

The Dragonballs are specific to Namekians, I'm pretty sure the powers that the Dragonballs generate are only accessible to that species.

There's lots of magical characters in DB, but that doesn't mean they can ressurect the dead. Boss Rabbit can turn people into carrots, but I doubt anyone would compare him to Shenlong.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:55 pm

Kroni_Hunter wrote:The Dragonballs are specific to Namekians, I'm pretty sure the powers that the Dragonballs generate are only accessible to that species.

There's lots of magical characters in DB, but that doesn't mean they can ressurect the dead. Boss Rabbit can turn people into carrots, but I doubt anyone would compare him to Shenlong.

Right. Even if he could turn everyone on Earth into a carrot, that doesn't mean he's able to bring people back to life.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:59 am

Buu can't do it, but he could absorb Shenlong or Dende if he wanted and then do it.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:12 am

mAcChaos wrote:Buu can't do it, but he could absorb Shenlong or Dende if he wanted and then do it.

I don't think Dende can bring people back to life at will. Absorbing Shenlong though...that would be interesting.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:42 am

Bussani wrote:Kami's never shown doing anything too powerful with his magic.

He rebuilt the Moon, and he was able to make the Dragonballs recharge instantly.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:44 am

Rocketman wrote:
Bussani wrote:Kami's never shown doing anything too powerful with his magic.
He rebuilt the Moon, and he was able to make the Dragonballs recharge instantly.

Recharging the dragon balls makes sense since he created them. I always thought putting the moon back was a God thing, but I guess that counts.

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:02 am

Bussani wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:Buu can't do it, but he could absorb Shenlong or Dende if he wanted and then do it.
I don't think Dende can bring people back to life at will. Absorbing Shenlong though...that would be interesting.

Dibs on the fanfic!

Yasai-R-Mighty · Post by **Yasai-R-Mighty** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:09 pm

I think Babidi is the best proof, that magical abilities and Ki are two separate things. He's relatively weak, and yet we see him do some impressive things with his magic, possessing, telepathy etc. There's no guarantee then that Buu would be capable of a mass resurrection, the likes that Shenlong can produce, using his own magic.

Acid_Reign wrote:
Bussani wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:Buu can't do it, but he could absorb Shenlong or Dende if he wanted and then do it.
I don't think Dende can bring people back to life at will. Absorbing Shenlong though...that would be interesting.
Dibs on the fanfic!

Awwwww!

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:11 pm

For the record, Piccolo said this when talking about bringing Goku back with the dragon balls after the Raditz fight.

"Be sure to find those dragon balls in time. Even Kami lacks the power to bring people back to life."

If God can't do it, who can? Hell, even Rou Dai Kaioshin had to give up his own life to give Goku back his.