Instances in Movie 5 removing its "canonity?"

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:06 pm

Well, you could always recut the footage (with rewritten subs using the Japanese audio) if it matters so much.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:30 pm

Dayspring wrote:Going with the hallucination motif, did anybody else wish a cop-out exaplanation was given in which a movie (2, 3, or 4) was actually taking place in Krillin and Gohan's virtual training aboard the Namekian ship en route to Namek?$

Another piss off of mine was the wasted 3 years training. Minor tweaking could have made movies 5-7 take place then without problem: get rid of the random plotholes in movie 5; make Kaio ask Goku and co instead of Dende, and remove the Nail cameo in movie 6; remove the flashback prologue in movie 7.

EDIT: Speaking of gaps, why not make more movies other than 9 take place in the years between Cell and Orange Star High eras?

The simple answer is that nerds don't work for Japanese animation companies.

Well, either that, or there wasn't time and Goku was dead?
Actually, since the movies seem to be based on the story magically resolving itself where it is when the movie is made, that pretty much explains why we don't have a lot of easy time-gap movies; the movies work with the currently active characters and situations, and that gap would lose most of the post-gap stuff (Videl, Saiyaman, and... stuff?

*confused*). Or... umm... Nah, I'll just say it's a timing thing.
Yes.
Darn it.

.

On that note, I think I need to go grab Snail's movies list...

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:41 pm

Dayspring wrote:EDIT: Speaking of gaps, why not make more movies other than 9 take place in the years between Cell and Orange Star High eras?

Because all the ones before 9 have a living Goku, and all the ones after 9 have Videl (except 11, I think, but that explicitly mentions the 25th Budokai).

mister yummy · Post by **mister yummy** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:42 pm

The hallucination thing rang a bell for me. I used to write Movie 4 off as a dream Goku had while recovering in the 'bacta tank' on Namek.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:50 pm

Dayspring wrote: Another piss off of mine was the wasted 3 years training. Minor tweaking could have made movies 5-7 take place then without problem: get rid of the random plotholes in movie 5; make Kaio ask Goku and co instead of Dende, and remove the Nail cameo in movie 6; remove the flashback prologue in movie 7.

The reason I give 5 slack is because they didn't do those things on purpose. The movie made sense within the context of what Toriyama had already set down, and when Toriyama did do the stuff with Goku's return we now had a quicker SSJ change and a slightly redrawn Gohan. Leading to some mild "inconsistencies" with the movie. But nothing that can't be easily fanwanked. I mean, if Toriyama had personally directed the movie, everyone would be all in depth on how Toriyama must have wanted to save SSJ's movie debut to be dramatic. But since it was someone else, now people just talk about how the notion of Goku using a non-specific level of Kaio-ken to take on a guy who, like two minutes before, he was mopping the floor with is totally out of character and makes the whole thing a bust.

Speaking of gaps, why not make more movies other than 9 take place in the years between Cell and Orange Star High eras?

10's just after I guess. If Videl wasn't in it, or if she had long hair and was there as a coincidence, that could have even worked out (outside of movie 8's non-canon status, obviously).

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:43 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Dayspring wrote:EDIT: Speaking of gaps, why not make more movies other than 9 take place in the years between Cell and Orange Star High eras?
Because all the ones before 9 have a living Goku, and all the ones after 9 have Videl (except 11, I think, but that explicitly mentions the 25th Budokai).

I meant instead of Boo-era movies (10 and after), why not go back and make movies that were set in the 7-year gap?

Another easy out for movies 10-12 would be to set them AFTER the Boo saga. Just drop the dead Goku motif. Movie 13 would work if it was Tapion's story instead of the story of how Trunks got his sword.

Puto · Post by **Puto** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:48 pm

Movie 13 does work. It isn't outright stated that Movie 13 was how Future Trunks got his sword, it was just hinted at. A hint that can just be ignored.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:11 pm

Puto wrote:Movie 13 does work. It isn't outright stated that Movie 13 was how Future Trunks got his sword, it was just hinted at. A hint that can just be ignored.

Hell, a hint that doesn't even have to be ignored. We don't know how strong the incomplete Hildegarn was. So maybe Gohan and Trunks were able to hold it off long enough to stop Hoi before he could fully unleash him. They also almost took Hildegarn out without much trouble in the movie, thanks to Tapion, but Trunks punked out from finishing the job. Maybe living in a post-apocalyptic future instead of a cheery one full of family and friends would have given Gohan or Trunks the mettle to see the deed through. Or hell, if #17 or #18 were nearby and didn't like the idea of the planet they were terrorizing being destroyed, one of them could have slain Tapion while the monster was sealed inside of him. They wouldn't have had a second thought about it.

Or maybe Tapion just stopped being all whiny and did it himself. At least with the flute backing him up, he was pretty awesome (and he had the sword too). He was able to generate a barrier that effortlessly deflected a blast from Hildegarn. A similar attack cost Vegeta all of his power to deflect.

Movie 13 wasn't a straightforward problem, so I don't see why people would assume had to take an SSJ3 to handle. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't SSJ3 Gotenks and Gohan both supposed to be stronger than Goku? Goku won by exploiting a weakness.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:21 pm

Puto wrote:Movie 13 does work. It isn't outright stated that Movie 13 was how Future Trunks got his sword, it was just hinted at. A hint that can just be ignored.

The daizenshuu confirms that it's how future Trunks got his sword. Even in the movie, it easily could have been anything other than Trunks' exact sword design, but it wasn't. That's a hell of a lot more than a hint.

One could argue that maybe a "Tapion saga" occured in Future Trunks' timeline, which would be fine with me had it not been shown that it's impossible to release Tapion w/o the Dragonballs.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:38 am

Minoshia was released using a different method, right?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:55 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Minoshia was released using a different method, right?

Yeah, by wearing down the magical seal for about a thousand years. So while I don't think it's impossible for Hoi to release Tapion, I still don't see Tapion being released in Trunks' lifetime. Even the odds of some other Earth-based magic releasing Tapion becomes less likely because of the androids. Not only that, but chances are Hoi's attempts to get help from someone powerful will end up in his meeting the androids, getting him killed before the seal is broken.

#17: "Sure, old man, we'll help you..."
#18: "Heh heh heh..."
Hoi: "Eh... heh heh... thank you?"
**KABOOSH!!!*
#17: "Let us celebrate his death with the destruction of Pepper Town!"
#18: "I see what you did there! And I LIKE it!"

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:26 pm

Was that said in one of the Daizenshuu, or is that just a guess?

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:14 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Was that said in one of the Daizenshuu, or is that just a guess?

Right, does any have an exact quote from the French and Japanese versions?

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:17 pm

...... Wait a second, what? Neru/Nail isn't in movie 6. I'd have remembered something like that o_O I believe Muuri showed up, but not Neru.

mister yummy · Post by **mister yummy** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:29 pm

Nail isn't in movie 6. A similiar looking Farming Type Namek Warrior is though. I figure if Piccolo and Nail can look the same, a random warrior and Nail can look the same too.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:01 am

Velasa wrote:...... Wait a second, what? Neru/Nail isn't in movie 6. I'd have remembered something like that o_O I believe Muuri showed up, but not Neru.

Kuririn made fun of Piccolo being a “Super Namek” in the dub that may explain why Nail is not present. I have no idea what the Japanese states.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:47 am

Well of course it would have been after he'd fused with Neru. They'd obviously been to Nameksei before if they knew about it and had Dendea. That's why he couldn't appear in the movie.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:20 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Was that said in one of the Daizenshuu, or is that just a guess?
Right, does any have an exact quote from the French and Japanese versions?

That dialogue was just me joking around around, guys. Hence the a-typical "O I C WOT U DID THAR" joke.

Regarding Nail, I personally think it was meant to be a cameo implying he got wished back by the DBs, be it a mistake or off-camera later on by the Namek DBs. But I'll overlook it. The Nail/Piccolo comment is valid enough.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:14 pm

Dayspring wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Was that said in one of the Daizenshuu, or is that just a guess?
Right, does any have an exact quote from the French and Japanese versions?
That dialogue was just me joking around around, guys. Hence the a-typical "O I C WOT U DID THAR" joke.

Regarding Nail, I personally think it was meant to be a cameo implying he got wished back by the DBs, be it a mistake or off-camera later on by the Namek DBs. But I'll overlook it. The Nail/Piccolo comment is valid enough.

I was talking about the Trunk’s sword comment.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:23 pm

And I was asking about Minoshia being released.