Taopaipai and Bukujutsu

Cypher · Post by **Cypher** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:10 am

Well, as we all know, the world’s number 1 assassin’s preferred mode of transport is the good ol’ toss-pillar-and-jump-on method; basically I wondered why the heck he’d use such a convoluted means of getting from A to B.

When we see Cyborg Tao at the 23rd Budokai, he’s defeated by Tenshinhan and his brother flies off with him on his back; the Daizenshuu has Tsurusennin at 120 (compared to Roshi’s 139) and Taopaipai, who is considered the World’s Greatest Assassin, is spoken of as superior to Roshi (and, therefore, Tsurusennin also).

Either Tao can use Bukujutsu but it’s tiring, as seems to be the case for everyone except Piccolo in Dragonball, or he can’t, necessitating the pillar method. But then, why are his techniques so clearly the same as Tsurusennin (’s students)? The Dodonpa, Tenshinhan-esque weird two-finger poke thingies, etc. It just seems odd that he wouldn’t learn to fly; it’s clearly not an issue of being weaker as he’s superior to his brother, who flies off into the distance carrying him.

At the point when Tao first appears, people sort of leap really high, but can’t fly (except on Kintoun and airships); is it just that Toriyama hadn’t thought of it being an option yet?

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:16 am

Possibly. If Shen, Chaozu, and Tien all could use bukujutsu, you would think Tao could do it as well. It Likely wasn't thought of at that point, or you could with the notion that it was too draining. I mean, Tien could barely move after he used it to save Goku from Daimao, and he's several times stronger then Tao was.

Since we never see Cyborg Tao (Who's power is increased several times more) use the ability, we can just assume his weaker self never did because he was too weak. Some may think Tao is stronger then Chaozu was in the 22nd Budokai, so my explanation might be off. I dunno.

B · Post by B » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:16 am

Goten was ridiculously strong, but couldn't fly. Make of that what you will.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:19 am

I totally forgot that. Maybe his concept of using Chi for bukujutsu wasn't good?

And I also doubt Tao is superior to Shen. Tien was astonished that Roshi was stronger then Shen during their battle, so it seems to imply Shen is greater then what Tao was.

Cypher · Post by **Cypher** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:25 am

I actually do prefer the idea of Tsurusennin, being the elder brother (and the Crane MASTER) being stronger than Taopaipai; to be honest I didn't have much evidence either way except when Kamesennin reacts at some stage to Taopaipai as if he's...not afraid, per se, but aware that he's a real tough match. Although perhaps that was after he heard Goku beat him, in which case maybe he was just surprised 'the greatest assassin' was beaten by a kid.

The only thing I'd say about Goten is that he only had Chichi to train him (you'd think Gohan would have done something for the poor kid too, but since he only realises he's a SSJ and can't fly just before the Budokai, he probably never trained with him before); Taopaipai's brother developed the technique and since Tenshinhan knew Taopaipai/looked up to him, he must have been around during his training, so it just struck me as odd Tao wouldn't have learned to fly. Thanks for the responses, it's interesting to hear people's views on the matter ^_^

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:56 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:I totally forgot that. Maybe his concept of using Chi for bukujutsu wasn't good?

And I also doubt Tao is superior to Shen. Tenshinhan was astonished that Roshi was stronger then Shen during their battle, so it seems to imply Shen is greater then what Tao was.

If Shen = Tenshinhan, then your sentence would be:
"Tenshinhan was astonished that Roshi was stronger then Tenshinhan during their battle", which turns out wierd.

If you with Shen mean Shen (Kami in a human body), Shen never was weaker than Tenshinhan until Dragonball Z, and only existed in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:22 pm

My guess is that Tao, being the first disciple of Tsuru-sennin, was capable of using bukujustsu, but probably just to levitate a for small amounts of time (a la 22nd budokai Chaozu). This wouldn't be advantageous to someone who can hurl and ride a support pillar.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:27 pm

I think it takes less energy to ride a pillar in that fashion than to fly over the same distance. Especially for a charather before DBZ.

DNA · Post by **DNA** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:39 pm

Wojak wrote: If Shen = Tenshinhan, then your sentence would be:
"Tenshinhan was astonished that Roshi was stronger then Tenshinhan during their battle", which turns out wierd.

If you with Shen mean Shen (Kami in a human body), Shen never was weaker than Tenshinhan until Dragonball Z, and only existed in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.

:wink:

It seems that in Funi dub, Tsurusennin is called Master Shen. I think in the original he was never given a proper name.

Post by **Herms** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:14 pm

Cypher wrote:the Daizenshuu has Tsurusennin at 120 (compared to Roshi’s 139) and Taopaipai, who is considered the World’s Greatest Assassin, is spoken of as superior to Roshi (and, therefore, Tsurusennin also).

I don't think Tao Pai Pai ever is actually stated to be stronger than Kame-sennin, though him easily beating Goku after Goku gave Kame-sennin such a hard fight certainly implies it. Howevr, Daizenshuu 7 only puts Kame-sennin at 139 after he powered up from training for the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai, not wanting to lose to his students. So he'd be much lower than that during the 21st TB.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:10 pm

Wojak wrote:If Shen = Tenshinhan, then your sentence would be:
"Tenshinhan was astonished that Roshi was stronger then Tenshinhan during their battle", which turns out wierd.

If you with Shen mean Shen (Kami in a human body), Shen never was weaker than Tenshinhan until Dragonball Z, and only existed in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.

Yeah. Scratch that. I didn't think about the confusion I created. Sorry.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:45 pm

I love how Tao Pai Pai gets around.

Bukujutsu was mainly used for levitating early on in the story though, not necessarily 'flying' as such. And there's the fact that it's very draining. Even Goku continues to use Kinto'un up to the Namek saga.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Tao float.

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:20 pm

I'm just going to make note, even though it's in no way canon, I'm pretty sure he could fly in Sparking! METEOR.

shinaobi · Post by **shinaobi** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:53 pm

I'ma contradict ya on that one. My memory fuzzes a little bit, but in METEOR Tao(not necessarily Cyborg) couldn't fly without the use of the flight capsule.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:43 pm

shinaobi wrote:I'ma contradict ya on that one. My memory fuzzes a little bit, but in METEOR Tao(not necessarily Cyborg) couldn't fly without the use of the flight capsule.

Nope, he was right. Tao flies in BT3 without a potera.

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:46 am

Innagadadavida wrote:
shinaobi wrote:I'ma contradict ya on that one. My memory fuzzes a little bit, but in METEOR Tao(not necessarily Cyborg) couldn't fly without the use of the flight capsule.
Nope, he was right. Tao flies in BT3 without a potera.

But I don't think he can in the second game.

Horgus · Post by **Horgus** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:01 am

Herms wrote:I don't think Tao Pai Pai ever is actually stated to be stronger than Kame-sennin, though him easily beating Goku after Goku gave Kame-sennin such a hard fight certainly implies it. Howevr, Daizenshuu 7 only puts Kame-sennin at 139 after he powered up from training for the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai, not wanting to lose to his students. So he'd be much lower than that during the 21st TB.

Is it ever explicitly stated in the manga how and when he trained for #22?

DNA · Post by **DNA** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:53 am

All this conversation makes me wonder what is the extent of Tsurusennin's abilities. Besides Bukujutsu and Dodonpa, has he got anything else up his sleeve? It would be fun seeing him in a BT game, just to pit him against Kamesennin. :D

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:54 am

DNA wrote:All this conversation makes me wonder what is the extent of Tsurusennin's abilities. Besides Bukujutsu and Dodonpa, has he got anything else up his sleeve? It would be fun seeing him in a BT game, just to pit him against Kamesennin.

More than likely. Kamesennin seems to have a lot of tricks up his sleeve that no one else ever uses, so the same is probably true about Tsurusennin.

DNA · Post by **DNA** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:56 am

Is he capable of doing the Kikoho? Or was that something that Tenshinhan created? I think he knew of the attack, hence he probably thought Tenshinhan how to do it.
In BT he would probably have a rush as well and that would be it. :P

Kanzenshuu

Taopaipai and Bukujutsu

Taopaipai and Bukujutsu

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Re: Taopaipai and Bukujutsu