Kai Episode 1 (05 April 2009)

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:36 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
SSj_Rambo wrote:Can anyone translate this text that appeared in the beginning of the episode, during the Bardock flashback? Thanks!
"Turn the lights on and don't sit too close to the TV or the Pokeymanz will give you seizures again, kplzthxdontsueus."

Wow, that's classic! Is this the first time we've gotten that warning with Dragonball?

SeiferA · Post by **SeiferA** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:37 pm

SSj_Rambo wrote: Wow, that's classic! Is this the first time we've gotten that warning with Dragonball?

Considering the Porygon incident in question happened back in late 97, a year after GT, I'd assume so :P

fps_anth · Post by **fps_anth** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:55 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
SSj_Rambo wrote:Can anyone translate this text that appeared in the beginning of the episode, during the Bardock flashback? Thanks!
"Turn the lights on and don't sit too close to the TV or the Pokeymanz will give you seizures again, kplzthxdontsueus."

LOL

That makes sence

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm

SeiferA wrote:
SSj_Rambo wrote: Wow, that's classic! Is this the first time we've gotten that warning with Dragonball?
Considering the Porygon incident in question happened back in late 97, a year after GT, I'd assume so

I wonder if we'll be getting one of these warnings each episode...

BrollysKin · Post by **BrollysKin** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:02 am

I didn't even notice the music much throughout this episode, does the original version also have less music compared to the funimation dub?

I was a little bothered that Raditz appearance was followed by some very palpatine sounding music, didn't seem to fit well.

Also, why is the cropping in Kai not being scrutinized as much as the cropping in the faux remastered funimation version?

Post by **Herms** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:06 am

BrollysKin wrote:Also, why is the cropping in Kai not being scrutinized as much as the cropping in the faux remastered funimation version?

I see plenty of scrutinizing going on.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:09 am

Herms wrote:
BrollysKin wrote:Also, why is the cropping in Kai not being scrutinized as much as the cropping in the faux remastered funimation version?
I see plenty of scrutinizing going on.

I got your scrutinizing right here!

No, but really just go back a few pages or check out the other DB Kai thread, there's plenty of debate on the cropping going on there.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:09 am

BrollysKin wrote:I didn't even notice the music much throughout this episode, does the original version also have less music compared to the funimation dub?

I was a little bothered that Raditz appearance was followed by some very palpatine sounding music, didn't seem to fit well.

Also, why is the cropping in Kai not being scrutinized as much as the cropping in the faux remastered funimation version?

There's plenty of it. But, the general idea against that scrutiny is that Toei has released DB, DBZ, and DBGT in 4:3 and hasn't discontinued those DVDs. If you don't like cropping, you can always get the show in 4:3. FUNimation, on the other hand, discontinued their 4:3 singles and never completed them. The only way you can get DBZ from them in it's entirety is through the cropped Bricks.

EDIT: Of course, the argument against that is that they can't get Kai in 4:3, therefore they've been wronged or something.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:18 am

Kendamu wrote:EDIT: Of course, the argument against that is that they can't get Kai in 4:3, therefore they've been wronged or something.

The argument I have against that is that cropping the footage is BAD. Call it whatever you want, but they've cut out a large amount of the original video source to fit an aspect ratio that it was not originally animated for. I'd call that a bad move. I'd say that disrespects the source material. To a Funimation extent? No. But it's still a bad aspect of Kai.

Just because a negative aspect of the show does not exist in the Dragon Boxes does not mean it doesn't exist in Kai. The source they're using was animated for 4:3, it should be in 4:3.

If someone released a special edition of your favorite film, with new content and fancy remastering for HD, would you accept it in pan and scan? I wouldn't. I'd think that this would be a bad thing.

And the SAME people argue that it's a "new show", so any perceivable negative differences don't matter at all.

It's either:

-A completely NEW SHOW that is subject to its own internal review process. This means that cropping is BAD, because it's NOT available in an un-cropped format, as this is an ALL NEW SHOW.

OR

-The OLD show repackaged. In this case, differences from the original material can be viewed as good or bad, because it is the same show, and so not having aspects can positively or negatively affect the quality of Z.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:25 am

A lot of the people that had a problem with the Bricks was because there was no other way of getting it in a legal US release.

You don't have to watch Kai. Toei has given you other options.

I don't see why this "cropped, cropped, omg cropped" stuff has just started even though there have been ads with cropped footage and there were comparisons being made to their 4:3 counterparts and FUNimation 16:9 counterparts for awhile now.

This isn't news. It's just complaining about old information for the sake of complaining. Where the Hell were you like 30 pages ago or something in the other thread?

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:28 am

I don't know who you mean in particular, because I've been unhappy with cropping from the moment I first heard of it. Shit, I don't own the beginning of the show in Japanese because I can't afford a dragonbox and I won't pay FUNi for a cropped product.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:30 am

Kendamu wrote:This isn't news. It's just complaining about old information for the sake of complaining.

Not really. I enjoyed episode 1 of Kai. It wasn't perfect, but it was nice to have something new.

All the same, it had its flaws. Some we've known about, and some we're just discovering. Like that Bulma and Raditz performance...which was less than stellar. There are good things too. The opening and closing themes really resonate well with me, and the new BGM is excellent.

On the other hand, I noticed the cropping. I noticed large chunks of the usual frame missing, especially in close-up face shots where they opted to cut off everybody's chins. I don't like it.

And it's not like there weren't people who still mentioned the cropping of the Season Sets after it was old news, y'know.

Stridex · Post by **Stridex** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:47 am

Is it just me, or does Piccolo somehow sound more awesome in crappy mono?

Le sigh.

Overall, though, I liked it. Got quite a few friends that have been interested but afraid of "Drag-On Balls", so the shorter runtime will be a plus with them.

New music is good, but not as memorable, I think. We'll see how I feel after we get to some "bigger" events.

Mosaic · Post by **Mosaic** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:57 am

Tsukento wrote:Only this time, we're not seeing rocks, towels, bushes, splashes of water or scraps of broken clothing to cover up.

In the scene where Gohan finds Goku, it looks like they put some grass over his crotch.

SeiferA · Post by **SeiferA** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:13 am

SSj_Rambo wrote: I wonder if we'll be getting one of these warnings each episode...

The warnings have actually been in every anime since the Porygon incident, with every episode. So yeah, you're gonna see it that often.

obiwan23s · Post by **obiwan23s** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:20 am

The alternative to the cropping on Kai is black bars on the left and right of the image. I've watched DBZ in 4:3 my entire life until I checked out Kai and honestly, watching it at fullscreen on a widescreen monitor wasn't hard. It didn't even feel different. Same old DBZ, with nicer colors and a really clean image.

And for those saying "they should've just remade the whole show," get real. That would cost an insane amount of money and would've had to have been planned out over a longer period of time, and definitely wouldn't have made it on TV as fast as Kai did. A completely re-animated DBZ will never happen short of Steve Jobs or Donald Trump funding it.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:19 am

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:
Kendamu wrote:This isn't news. It's just complaining about old information for the sake of complaining.
Not really. I enjoyed episode 1 of Kai. It wasn't perfect, but it was nice to have something new.

I'm glad. I'm kinda getting tired of all this Broken Base stuff and it's making me defensive.

All the same, it had its flaws. Some we've known about, and some we're just discovering. Like that Bulma and Raditz performance...which was less than stellar. There are good things too. The opening and closing themes really resonate well with me, and the new BGM is excellent.

Everything has it's flaws. I saw a couple of rough cuts toward the end of the first episode. I'm not asking for people to lie and pretend it was perfect. It's just that I've just been seeing a lot of They Changed It Now It Sucks for every little new thing that's come out lately. Like I said, it's making me defensive.

On the other hand, I noticed the cropping. I noticed large chunks of the usual frame missing, especially in close-up face shots where they opted to cut off everybody's chins. I don't like it.

It doesn't really bother me. I remember the manga better than the anime. If it translates the manga panels well enough, then I'm not bothered.

And it's not like there weren't people who still mentioned the cropping of the Season Sets after it was old news, y'know.

That doesn't make them right. I'd give them just as much crap for it as I did you. Likely more since we're on Season 8 or 9 now of those things.

I don't care if people would rather watch another version of the show, but I really don't want to see this become the "new thing" that's cool to hate. That's all.

jda95 · Post by **jda95** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:40 am

I'm wondering if we will get any 'new' scenes based off scenes omitted from the manga, or simply to explore backstories. I just watched the Death Note rewrite special, and I noticed a scene at the end where Light is laughing maniacally at L's grave, which wasn't present in the original, but really added to L's death.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:05 am

I really don't understand why everybody is still upset about cropping. It's the same thing all over again. I don't see cropping as a valid complaint for Kai because the whole series has been released in a 4:3 format with amazing quality. I just don't understand why anybody would be concerned with the missing footage, especially with selective reframing. You are not missing anything important. A chin here, a symbol there, a small bit of hair, what's the big deal?

How is it disrespectful to the animation? Toei did it themselves, how can you disrespect your own work?

Ramoro-san · Post by **Ramoro-san** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:31 am

obiwan23s wrote: And for those saying "they should've just remade the whole show," get real. That would cost an insane amount of money and would've had to have been planned out over a longer period of time, and definitely wouldn't have made it on TV as fast as Kai did. A completely re-animated DBZ will never happen short of Steve Jobs or Donald Trump funding it.

Well, making any new show in general costs a lot of money and time, and it's not like Toei couldn't afford to do it if they wanted to. Plus, DragonBall is perpetually profitable, at least in Japan I gather. So why not?

Yes, I must say I'm one of the people who wishes they would have created an all-new show. In fact, before we ever had news of Kai, I had actually contemplated the concept of how cool it would be to do a remake anime and when I first heard about Kai, I thought it would be along those lines. But of course it quickly became obvious that that would not be the case since it was being released so quickly.

Personally, I would be thrilled about a complete revamp of the DB/Z anime faithfully based on the manga, with all-new, top-notch animation like we see in the Kai openings and the recent "Son Goku and His Friends Return" special. That would be the bomb-diggity. I don't think it's entirely out of the question a few decades down the line. Furthermore, I think the concept of repackaging DragonBall with a new title and everything would make a lot more sense in that context. Kai, on the other hand... well, let's be honest, it's basically just digitally altered old footage slapped between new theme songs and eyecatchers.

That being said, I'm still very excited about Kai. I totally love the opening and ending theme songs and especially the gorgeous new animation for them. The vibe is very relevant and contemporary, with bouncy, upbeat pop songs. I never really liked the bizarre "Zenkai Power" closing song of the original series, so the update is welcome. However, I think we can all agree that "Cha-La Head Cha-La" will live on.

I was disappointed at first with the decision to re-crop the picture into widescreen, considering what a fiasco that turned out to be with Funimation. However, the effect is not nearly as disturbing due to the selective reframing work that Toei so wisely executed, plus the picture appears to be considerably extended on either side (from what I can tell with the naked eye). Thus the visual composition is almost never disrupted, with a few minor exceptions. I was quite pleased with the result.

I think the high-definition remastering job looks beautiful and clean overall. But I wish they would have stilled the little bit of jitter that remains in the footage. And earlier in this discussion, someone brought to our attention some screenshots that had some lousy retracing work on them; it’s striking how bad these moments look as frozen frames (little Goku looks rather like he’s wearing eyeliner as he’s leaping through the trees). Still, I hardly noticed these issues as they flew by during the episode, because most of the artwork looks truly renewed and effectively refurbished. Again, Kai is miles above the shoddy auto-remastering job of Funimation’s infamous “orange bricks” (which, by the way, really isn’t so bad as the seasons progress). It was absolutely stunning to not see a single black speck or white grain amongst the smoothly-enhanced colors.

And speaking of colors, I really don’t get all this previous chatter about colors from the DBox release being better than the colors from the Funimation release or vice versa, or some such thing. Colors, colors, colors. Isn’t that merely relative? It just depends on your own perspective. Plus, what’s the basis of comparison? Who of us, being the viewing audience, is to say how the original colors were actually intended to be like? Maybe I just feel that way because I’m not extremely technologically savvy. Nonetheless, the “colors” in Kai look wonderful to me, as does the overall picture clarity.

Moving on, I absolutely loved how the episode moved along so quickly. I am completely supportive and excited at the notion of removing filler and increasing the pace of the DBZ story for DBK. I’ve been re-watching DBZ recently, and I find it annoying that the pacing is so profoundly awful and slow at some parts. This concept of a faster, manga-faithful re-cut of the show definitely flies with me. Indeed, if Kai continues to be satisfactory in this respect as more episodes are released, I have a feeling it will replace Z for me when it comes time to once again revisit the anime. That means I can just sit on my ass for about 40 hours instead of 110 hours.

So, there it is. DragonBall Kai has begun. Admittedly, we’ve got a lot more to see before we can render a final verdict, but judging by my first impressions of the first episode, I approve.

Kanzenshuu

Kai Episode 1 (05 April 2009)

DBK Premiere