Kai Episode 1 (05 April 2009)

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:59 pm

Wowzers Healthjio, might we get one of those every week? The quality is so awesome!!

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:06 pm

Wow, Kanzentai!

The size of the images for the comparisons makes seeing the differences slightly difficult for me. Could be nice if they were links to a larger version of the picture? I know that it's that way for your other(also excellent) episode guides, and there's probably a reason for that, but a larger image for the comparison shots might be nice.

Anyway, the whole thing is really great to look at and read. You guys have really outdone yourselves this time! I suppose you really are working your way towards living up to that name!

Wasted Wisher · Post by **Wasted Wisher** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:55 pm

Rod>

Dunno yet about how much (or how little) filler material is staying in.

Patient-mental>

A regular animated show is plotted around 4 months in advance, or so I've been told. The actual animation production starts to happen around the last two months of that window.
Even though Kai is basically a rehashed show, it seems to pretty much follow the same production schedule as a new show would.

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:07 am

DemonRin wrote:Wow!! REALLY REALLY Nice guide!!
Never seen such an in-depth explanation!!

But question, why does the guide go out of it's way to say "Saiya-jin" for Saiyan, "Kinto-Un" for Kintoun, and spells Freeza's name right, but Kuririn is the only one who gets stuck with a Dub name?

Well, I wouldn't say we go out of our way to spell them that way, that's just how we naturally spell them, but I do have my reasoning, or at least I did at one time. For as long as I can remember, I've just always romanized Saiya-jin (サイヤ人) instead of translating it. I think it goes way back to the early dub days and because I also do the same thing with Tsufuru-jin (ツフル人). Though, I do translate Namekian (ナメック星人), but that's because Namekku-seijin just doesn't sound as appealing.

I romanize 筋斗雲 as "Kinto-Un" instead of "Kintoun", because in Japanese those are pronounced differently, and therefore have different meanings. The word "Kinto-Un" (筋斗雲), roughly translated as "Somersault Cloud", is comprised of three kanji; 筋 (kin / きん), 斗 (to / と), and 雲 (un / うん). Since the last kanji character is "un", I separate it from the rest of the word to signify it is pronounced separately, since in Japanese, unless otherwise specified, the "u" is more-or-less silent when it follows an "o". "Kinto-Un" would be pronounced as it appears (kin + to + un), whereas "Kintoun" would be pronounced like this, "kin + tone". You can check Daizenshuu EX, they do the same thing, and I'm sure for the same reason.

Kuririn (クリリン) is just one of those names that just doesn't really roll off the tongue very well for native English speakers, so I prefer not to use it. If you want to use it, by all means feel free. In my hones opinion, Krillin is probably the best transliteration of his name, at least in English. In fact, this is something in my mind that FUNi actually got right, because it's the way I'd translate it whether that's how they did or not. That's why I use it.

Basically, like I mentioned before, the "u" sound is more-or-less silent in certain cases (I won't go into detail why, but it is). So in Kuririn's case, we can drop the "u" out entirely, which leaves us with Kririn. Also, there's not real "l" sound in Japanese, and most often the "r" and "l" sounds are interchangeable. So, we can change the middle "r" to an "l", but leave the first "r" as is, since in English you won't find too many words, if any, with an "l" after a "k". So that gives us Krilin, but we really want to drive home the "l" sound in the middle, so we add another "l" for dramatic effect. That gives us "Krillin", which for most people is much easier to pronounce. It does lose the pun a little in translation, but it's not a huge loss.

There are a bunch of name spellings that are just weird, and there's not much we can do about it. And people would complain just as much if we simply romanized everything to avoid this problem. Also, for the record, Krillin isn't the only one with a "dub" name, which I don't like saying, but what about Bulma?

JulieYBM wrote:Wowzers Healthjio, might we get one of those every week? The quality is so awesome!!

I know I'm healthy, but you've gotta take the "l" out of my name for it to really work.

But yeah, that's the plan. I hope we can stick to it.

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:The size of the images for the comparisons makes seeing the differences slightly difficult for me. Could be nice if they were links to a larger version of the picture?

It's not something I normally do, unless I absolutely have to, but I'll consider it. Though so far, if you look at the background of all those images, I think it's pretty evident they've been redrawn.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:43 am

Hujio wrote:
DemonRin wrote:Wow!! REALLY REALLY Nice guide!!
Never seen such an in-depth explanation!!

But question, why does the guide go out of it's way to say "Saiya-jin" for Saiyan, "Kinto-Un" for Kintoun, and spells Freeza's name right, but Kuririn is the only one who gets stuck with a Dub name?
Well, I wouldn't say we go out of our way to spell them that way, that's just how we naturally spell them, but I do have my reasoning, or at least I did at one time. For as long as I can remember, I've just always romanized Saiya-jin (サイヤ人) instead of translating it. I think it goes way back to the early dub days and because I also do the same thing with Tsufuru-jin (ツフル人). Though, I do translate Namekian (ナメック星人), but that's because Namekku-seijin just doesn't sound as appealing.

I romanize 筋斗雲 as "Kinto-Un" instead of "Kintoun", because in Japanese those are pronounced differently, and therefore have different meanings. The word "Kinto-Un" (筋斗雲), roughly translated as "Somersault Cloud", is comprised of three kanji; 筋 (kin / きん), 斗 (to / と), and 雲 (un / うん). Since the last kanji character is "un", I separate it from the rest of the word to signify it is pronounced separately, since in Japanese, unless otherwise specified, the "u" is more-or-less silent when it follows an "o". "Kinto-Un" would be pronounced as it appears (kin + to + un), whereas "Kintoun" would be pronounced like this, "kin + tone". You can check Daizenshuu EX, they do the same thing, and I'm sure for the same reason.

Kuririn (クリリン) is just one of those names that just doesn't really roll off the tongue very well for native English speakers, so I prefer not to use it. If you want to use it, by all means feel free. In my hones opinion, Krillin is probably the best transliteration of his name, at least in English. In fact, this is something in my mind that FUNi actually got right, because it's the way I'd translate it whether that's how they did or not. That's why I use it.

Basically, like I mentioned before, the "u" sound is more-or-less silent in certain cases (I won't go into detail why, but it is). So in Kuririn's case, we can drop the "u" out entirely, which leaves us with Kririn. Also, there's not real "l" sound in Japanese, and most often the "r" and "l" sounds are interchangeable. So, we can change the middle "r" to an "l", but leave the first "r" as is, since in English you won't find too many words, if any, with an "l" after a "k". So that gives us Krilin, but we really want to drive home the "l" sound in the middle, so we add another "l" for dramatic effect. That gives us "Krillin", which for most people is much easier to pronounce. It does lose the pun a little in translation, but it's not a huge loss.

There are a bunch of name spellings that are just weird, and there's not much we can do about it. And people would complain just as much if we simply romanized everything to avoid this problem. Also, for the record, Krillin isn't the only one with a "dub" name, which I don't like saying, but what about Bulma?

Really Quick, for the record I'm not going "WHAT THE HELL?!? THEY USED A DUB NAME?!? COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN RAAAAAAGE!!"
I was just sorta going "Huh, they use "Saiya-jin" instead of the easier "Saiyan", they use "Kinto-Un" and such, yet they translate out Kuririn's name to his Dub counterpart? I wonder why..."
Also, you don't have to explain so much to me, Nihongo wo hanashimasu XP
And as for Bulma, well... it's written on her shirt as "Bulma" clear as day in the beginning of DBK's DB recap... so yeah

Coola Yagami · Post by **Coola Yagami** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:07 am

My thoughts.... cut and pasted from elsewhere.... in retrospect, I agree that Bulma did sound off... and that I kinda preffered Rugal-Raditz than Kai Raditz.

Well as for the show, the new Opening 'Dragon Soul' is pretty cool, a catchy GT-ish kinda beat, and the new animation is awesome, mostly inspired on the first battle between Goku and Vegeta. The ending theme is also cool and catchy. The only thing is, with the brand-new bad-ass animation of the OPs and EDs of the show (kinda drawn like the openining in the DBZ Budokai games) it makes you wish this was an all new show instead of just cutting stuff from the old show. The eye catchers are the worst offenders, cause you have old 90's-drawn DBZ and then 09 eye catchers, and back to 90's animation. LOL

Anyways, that's my thought on episode one. It's all new cause we're just getting used to the OP and ED animation, and the DB recap stuff was cool, now we have to see what we think of the upcoming episodes and how they're cut.

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:10 am

Wasted Wisher wrote:Rod>

Dunno yet about how much (or how little) filler material is staying in.

Patient-mental>

A regular animated show is plotted around 4 months in advance, or so I've been told. The actual animation production starts to happen around the last two months of that window.
Even though Kai is basically a rehashed show, it seems to pretty much follow the same production schedule as a new show would.

Do you know how much involvement Toriyama is having, if any?

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:47 am

DemonRin wrote:Really Quick, for the record I'm not going "WHAT THE HELL?!? THEY USED A DUB NAME?!? COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN RAAAAAAGE!!"
I was just sorta going "Huh, they use "Saiya-jin" instead of the easier "Saiyan", they use "Kinto-Un" and such, yet they translate out Kuririn's name to his Dub counterpart? I wonder why..."
Also, you don't have to explain so much to me, Nihongo wo hanashimasu XP
And as for Bulma, well... it's written on her shirt as "Bulma" clear as day in the beginning of DBK's DB recap... so yeah

Oh don't worry, I didn't think that at all, I was just thoroughly explaining myself. Sorry if it came off as anything more than that.

Coola Yagami wrote:My thoughts.... cut and pasted from elsewhere.... in retrospect, I agree that Bulma did sound off... and that I kinda preffered Rugal-Raditz than Kai Raditz.

What exactly are you referring to as "cut and pasted"?

Rod wrote:Do you know how much involvement Toriyama is having, if any?

I second this question, though I'm guessing he has little, if any, involvement. I mean, they're basing this off of the manga, and that's done, so I don't think they'd need too much input.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:56 am

Hujio wrote:
Coola Yagami wrote:My thoughts.... cut and pasted from elsewhere.... in retrospect, I agree that Bulma did sound off... and that I kinda preffered Rugal-Raditz than Kai Raditz.
What exactly are you referring to as "cut and pasted"?

The thoughts themselves.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:14 am

Kanzentai wrote:So this episode actually starts with Bardock's death, a scene taken from the first DragonBall Z TV special. In the original airing of this scene, a particularly poignant piece of music plays, which was originally composed for the third DragonBall Z movie, "Super Decisive Battle For Earth". As far as I'm concerned, this song is to set up the tone for everything we are about to hear from this point forward. The scene in question is not only incredibly important to the storyline, but the original composition used was one of the most beautiful pieces of music in the entire series.

Agreed, that was the point I was most weirded out by Kai. When Bardock is hit by Freeza's attack, my brain is completely tuned in to that piece of music starting to play, and it just feels wrong when it doesn't.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:47 am

Ok, I just read through the entire Kanzentai comparison Guide (It was long, I hadn't gotten to read it all before XP)
VERY Excellently done!! Only thing, it's missing the one thing I've actually been the MOST excited about. Dragon Ball Z was made in, and has been availible for years in only a Mono Audio track. Kai has a Multi-channel mix!! For the first time in 20 years, STEREO DRAGON BALL Z!! (Not counting the 40th Jump Special!
I think it should at least MENTION the mixing, which I felt was nothing short of spectacular!

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:58 am

I'm not positive, but I think that this scene was re-drawn with some changes:

Now, I was looking through Kanzentai's Episode Guide for the Piccolo Daimao Arc and saw this screenshot:

Everything matches up between the two except for the head, which I found interesting (the colors are different becasue there are flashing lights during this scene). What I'm trying to remember is was there another scene where we saw Ma Juniors egg form, and the scenes in Kai is from there, or was the scene really re-animated just close Piccolo's eyes?

So was Piccolo in his egg shell shown in any episode other than episode 123?

NOTE: 2nd image made by Hujio.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:59 am

He starts with his eyes closed and his head down. Then it snaps up and he gives a tiny evil grin before the house ends up on fire. Two different frames.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:09 am

Velasa wrote:He starts with his eyes closed and his head down. Then it snaps up and he gives a tiny evil grin before the house ends up on fire. Two different frames.

Wow, I should have thought of/remebered that...

Thank you though!

PS: Why am I not surprised that your are the one to answer this question?

SonGokuGT · Post by **SonGokuGT** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:59 am

The Kanzentai team never seizes to amaze me with their commitment to bring thorough and interesting analysis... Keep up the outstanding work!

Son Wukong · Post by **Son Wukong** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:00 am

I was just watching the first episode again and noticed that when Raditz said to Goku ''You look exactly like our father'' he uses ''chichi''. Wasn't that supposed to be used for mothers only?

jda95 · Post by **jda95** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:16 am

Son Wukong wrote:I was just watching the first episode again and noticed that when Raditz said to Goku ''You look exactly like our father'' he uses ''chichi''. Wasn't that supposed to be used for mothers only?

What? Chichi is 'my father'.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:22 am

It's actually another term in Japanese for "father." It's one of those words that has a crap load of different uses and meanings.

DBZOceanHD · Post by **DBZOceanHD** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:23 am

Chichi is the personal term used for your father. Haha is the personal term used for your mother (really, it's Haha).

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:24 am

Son Wukong wrote:I was just watching the first episode again and noticed that when Raditz said to Goku ''You look exactly like our father'' he uses ''chichi''. Wasn't that supposed to be used for mothers only?

Uh... huh?

"Chichi" is a more personal term for "father", unless you mean "chichi" as in Chi-Chi...

EDIT: Aw, hell naw, all y'all.