Does Broly have more potential than Son Gohan?

[Rocketman]

Broly doesn't get a near-death powerup between movies 8 and 10, though.

[Saiyan-Professor]

...The part that you didn't understand: I meant that if Toei wanted Brolly to be weak enough to be taken out by those Saiya-jins and Piccolo, we'll have to be fine with it. The creators of the story thought so, and in this non-canon situation, Toei is right, because this occurs in their own movie-universe.

I see what you are saying and plus we all Know that Kakarrot has to win in the end no matter how ridiculous the win was. Toei built all that up to end it in a manner that is very illogical.

Instincts does not make you stronger than anyone else. Sure, if you are stronger than someone, instincts can put you up over someone's power, like Gohan's rage vs. Cell, or Kuririn's kick to Nappa. But it may also fail, like Gohan's rage in his fight against Recoome. He surely got stronger by his rage, but he didn't get strong enough.
Why do I put rage into ìnto the instincts-category? Well, mostly Gohan's instincts (being thrown at a cliff, seeing someone get hurt) puts him in a rage mode.
You can't go into an infinite power or an abnormally high power just with instincts, even if it's a Super Transformation you have.
Gohan's SSJ2 didn't give him an automatic victory over Cell. And by that time it was an instinct-driven transformation.

See my answer on the last point below.

About Brolly overpowering them: Sure, he thought this, he thought that. But in the end he was defeated by those three.

See my first response at the top.

But still, a Saiya-jin baby Oozaru could have rampaged the Earth with success.
See Jackie Chun destroying the moon, albeit it's not that of a strong argument.
Other than that, Goku showed in his early Oozaru form that he was capable of that.
And probably they would gain power during the time through zenkais and physical effort, making them stronger as Oozarus.

I am not questioning that all I am saying is that a Saiyan is born with a combat power as we saw in the Bardock Television Special. I believe that they are born with the ability to fight. I seriously doubt that they totally depended on the Ozaru transformation.

I would also mention that if Brolly didn't train, his regular SSJ form would be inferior to SSJ Vegeta, who couldn't put a scratch on him.
I mean, if he didn't train he would be at 10.000 still in base.
Sure if the LSSJ transformation taps into his hidden potential. But we forget that his regular SSJ transformation was superior to Vegeta's.
So my conclusion was that Brolly did train a lot. He was controlled in the end, and his father probably put him to training for him to release his agressions, making it easier to control him.

The actual quote from Daizenshuu 6 is:

The legendary Super Saiya-jin Broli debuted in “Burn Up!! A Close – Intense – Super-Fierce Battle” and appeared in 3 movies. Perhaps this instinct-driven form is the true Super Saiya-jin, which the legend says will “Love destruction and slaughter”.

To me that convey his uniqueness, it is reminiscent of an animal. Broli was a natural born predator and his natural instinct was towards “destruction and slaughter”. While Vegeta and Kakarrot both state in Z and GT that their Super Saiyan transformation increases their aggression, it is never described in the fashion that Broli’s is depicted. We cannot go by the rules for normal Saiyans, we do not know if that applies to Broli. As I said before the Daizenshuu implies that, he and his transformation are different. Nothing indicates that he had to train, all that Vegeta, Kakarrot Son Gohan ans so forth had to go through might not even apply to him.


Also for the record, I am really enjoying this thread; this is the first one I saw on this forum that people actually took it serious where Broli is concerned. Usually there would be comments along the lines that anyone that likes Broli was an 8 year old.

Broly doesn't get a near-death powerup between movies 8 and 10, though.

I thought Herms stated a while ago that the Daizenshuu states that Broli was stronger in Movie #10.

[rereboy]

Broly doesn't get a near-death powerup between movies 8 and 10, though.

I`ve already read in this board that Brolly in his second movie is stronger than his first.

Here is the topic: http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=10151

And this was what Herms said:

Daizenshuu 6 does say he's stronger in DBZ movie 10.

[Rocketman]

Doesn't Gohan say Broly's just as strong as he was before?


The Daizenshuu gets simple math wrong, so I don't buy it on its own.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Doesn't Gohan say Broly's just as strong as he was before?


The Daizenshuu gets simple math wrong, so I don't buy it on its own.

I thought he said that Broli was just as much trouble as before.

[Senzu_Bean]

Doesn't Gohan say Broly's just as strong as he was before?


The Daizenshuu gets simple math wrong, so I don't buy it on its own.

I thought he said that Broli was just as much trouble as before.

Note Gohan says that while Broly is only at SSJ not LSSJ.

Heck, there is a picture in that thread that clearly states Brolly received a Zenkai and wrote by Akira Toriyama.

[Wojak]

I would see Saiya-jin saga Vegeta as more brutal and savage as Brolly.
The difference is that Vegeta thought a lot about how to torture Goku.
I mean, he wanted to wait for Goku for him to see his friends and son to get killed, one after another. Then, he wanted to kill Goku slowly, and make him regret for killing Radditz.

I mean, that's worse than Brolly. In my eyes Vegeta was much more evil.
There was no personal reasons here except Goku's betrayal.
And for Vegeta to come all the way to Earth and cancelling his other duties just for that cause, is pure evil.

Brolly on the other hand, was a bit of a psychopath and was OK with just torturing and killing, without any real plan.
Vegeta used both physical and psychological torture.

[Bussani]

In my opinion, the mystic ritual turns one person into the strongest he could possibly be.

It`s like he had all the training in the world, all his hidden powers are all out, and his body is in its maximum form, all at the same time. Therefore one in mystic form can not improve (except with a fusion). In my opinion, when the author invented the mystic ritual, that`s what he was thinking.

I say this because mystic Gohan didn`t have to turn SSJ anymore, he was stronger than a SSJ3 and didn`t become stronger from healing while fighting super buu. To me it all sugests that the mystic ritual is what I think it is.
And I don`t consider GT because its full of plot holes and GT wasn´t even dreamed when the author wrote/drew the mystic ritual.

I don`t find this idea (strongest he could possibly be) unreasonable because mystic gohan was the most powerfull character in Z if we don`t consider the fusions, the absorptions of Buu (because they imply the power of more than one character) and GT (because of the plot holes).

In my opinion, by the end of Z, the Z fighters were already reaching their limit. Even Goku was almost there. I believe he could master SSJ3 state while living but I dont think he could improve much more. I believe that is why the author introduced the fusions (so that thay could be even stronger).
(Even if we consider GT regarding this, Goku only got stronger by having his tail back, by having energy given to him by other characters and with fusions.
If we really want to consider GT then maybe the mystic ritual isn`t able to bring out the power that the tail can give a sayan if the sayan doesn`t have one, but in every other way, it turns you into the strongest you could possibly be).

Because of this and because of what I already wrote, I think Mystic Brolly would be stronger than Mystic Gohan.

I'm not so sure there's a hard limit to how powerful a person can get in Dragon Ball. There might be, but from what we know already, it seems unlikely to me. Even once their body has reached it's peak they can get stronger by working on their ki, with image training and further physical training with it. According to the new guide, Goku had already gone beyond the limits of a Super Saiyajin during the Freeza saga. So yeah, Mystic Gohan's body may have been at it's peak, and at that point zenkais had kind of gone away, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's as strong as he ever could be. Of course, the level of training necessary to get stronger from that point would probably be crazy.

The reason mystic replaces Super Saiyajin forms, in my opinion, is that it brings all of that hidden ki which they release to the surface, and then some. That still doesn't imply to me that Broly had more. He never gave a hint of having anything as powerful as an SSJ2 hidden away. He may have. Heck, he probably did have. There's no evidence either way though.