Dragonball Dethroned

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Thu May 21, 2009 9:45 am

Big Momma wrote:…Unless Kishimoto decides to pull a brand new villain out of freaking nowhere, then it's pretty much in its last arc or two right about now…

There are many villains he can use to drag the manga out with; there is Madara, Sasuke, Kabutomaru amongst others. Pain was just the beginning of concluding the manga.

Dayspring wrote:...Which is friggin' likely seeing how Madara turned out to be the Mizukage for absolutely NO reason other than to show that he's also the Mizukage. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire Land of Mist is just waiting to invade the now decimated Leaf Village.
Granted it was probably a throwaway comment done to tie in the Zabuza arc (as it turns out every other story ended up being related through 6 degrees of seperation)...

I think Naruto has a long way to go. There are more unanswered questions than answered ones right now. There was a 2008 interview where Kishi, he listed a number of things that would take place in Part II and we have only gone through half of them so far. A fourth Ninja War is supposed to take place, most likely the other Ninja villages versus the Kirigakure or Amegakure (since Pain was its Kage).

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:01 am

As much as I love OP, I can't help but feel a little sad...er, I don't know if that's the right word. Dragonball has always been to me the finest example of what a shonen should be and what most shonen manga of today aspire to, and I suppose it still is even now that it's been beaten in sales, but it was just nice to have the figures to show for it. Oh well, I can't really dwell on it since One Piece totally deserves it in every way.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:32 pm

Mr. Announcer wrote:...Oh well, I can't really dwell on it since One Piece totally deserves it in every way.

That is until Naruto takes the #1 spot.

Catterix2006 · Post by **Catterix2006** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:34 pm

Then again, the fact that it took 12 volumes more for One Piece to overtake Dragonball is still sort of Dragonball's victory

That's less purchases per volume.

Love One Piece though, very glad it's up there

SSJ2bardock wrote: You are correct sir! This is just one of those stupid things they can wave in our faces now... until Naruto reaches volume 70 and becomes the new #1 I mean seriously, is that series EVER going to end?

You do realise that Naruto is actually shorter than both Dragonball and One Piece at the moment, so moaning about it going on and on isn't really relevant here.

Or are you just another fan who hates Naruto for... no real reason?

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:50 pm

Catterix2006 wrote:
SSJ2bardock wrote:seriously, is that series EVER going to end?
You do realise that Naruto is actually shorter than both Dragonball and One Piece at the moment

Maybe it feels longer?

Post by **Herms** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:53 pm

So 150 million copies of DB in print. That's the same number as SSJ Goku's battle power. Coincidence? Well, yes, but it's still somewhat amusing.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:01 pm

Herms wrote:So 150 million copies of DB in print. That's the same number as SSJ Goku's battle power. Coincidence? Well, yes, but it's still somewhat amusing.

Oh sure, that's the number in books. But how about yen? US Dollars? Bhutan Ngultrums?

Obviously we have not found nearly enough coincidences.

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:14 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Mr. Announcer wrote:...Oh well, I can't really dwell on it since One Piece totally deserves it in every way.
That is until Naruto takes the #1 spot.

That's the spirit, keep on dreaming, man.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:19 pm

Catterix2006 wrote:You do realise that Naruto is actually shorter than both Dragonball and One Piece at the moment, so moaning about it going on and on isn't really relevant here.

There are 42 books of DB and 46 books of Naruto, while Naruto is still ongoing.

@Saiya: I agree that a fourth Ninja War is about to take place. The Raikage is demanding a summit of the kages. Unless something major happens, Madara being the Mizukage means the summit will end in failure (or even catastrophe).

But now I'm 98.2% off-topic, so if anybody wants to talk Naruto, please PM me. I'm quite a fan, but never found a "daizex equivalent Naruto forum." Hinthint, winkwink, nudgenudge.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:19 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Mr. Announcer wrote:...Oh well, I can't really dwell on it since One Piece totally deserves it in every way.
That is until Naruto takes the #1 spot.

If somebody told me that was going to happen... I wouldn't... Believe it.

B · Post by B » Thu May 21, 2009 2:30 pm

Mr. Announcer wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Mr. Announcer wrote:...Oh well, I can't really dwell on it since One Piece totally deserves it in every way.
That is until Naruto takes the #1 spot.
That's the spirit, keep on dreaming, man.

This is hilarious for one reason. Do you know it, Daizex?

Miracles · Post by **Miracles** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:01 pm

DemonRin wrote:
Miracles wrote:I believe B was saying the overall arcs of One Piece are repetitive. Go to island, explore island, save island [Or someone] and beat up the villain.^^^

I really try and enjoy all three of Shonen Jumps "Holy Trinity."
We can't really say which one is better than the other until the works are finished.
On Little Garden they weren't saving anyone, they just stopped there to set the Log.
On Whiskey Peak, they weren't saving anyone either, they just wanted to Leave and Vivi ended up stowing away (Nami charged her for it) and there was no one villain to beat up, there was a whole TOWN of villains
In Skypiea at first they just wanted to relax, and then they just wanted to get the hell off the island. Enel ended up getting what he wanted, he left on his Ark, Luffy didn't stop him.
On Water Seven there wasn't anyone to save, nor was there an Island to save. They got caught up in an assassination attempt, but got totally beaten.
Enies Lobby, the Straw Hats went on a total offensive for the first time, and for the first time the series had a "Rescue" arc. (Think Soul Society in Bleach)

Spoilers ahead
In Thriller Bark, Zoro got DECIMATED By Kuma
and On the Sabaody Archipelago, They were DESTROYED By Kuma, the good guys lost completely.

There are no two arcs you can directly do a detailed comparison of side by side and explain with the same paragraph.

The road-manga Island theme actually helps make the series much much less repetitive, since the SHs have yet to visit an island with repeating scenery.

We aren't talking about scenery, we are talking about how repetitive the plot is for every arc.
Thriller Bark is where the Sh pirates saved the members on Thriller Bark by getting everyone their shadows back [Even saved/gained Brooke].
You have to remember Enies Lobby/Water Seven is ONE arc and it basically turned out to be a rescue mission for Robin.
Skypiea easily was a rescue mission because save that island/Islanders from Ener.
Whiskey Peak is Alabasta arc [It all ties in] and the SH's saved that Kingdom after defeating Crocodile.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:07 pm

Miracles wrote:We aren't talking about scenery, we are talking about how repetitive the plot is for every arc.
Thriller Bark is where the Sh pirates saved the members on Thriller Bark by getting everyone their shadows back [Even saved/gained Brooke].
You have to remember Enies Lobby/Water Seven is ONE arc and it basically turned out to be a rescue mission for Robin.
Skypiea easily was a rescue mission because save that island/Islanders from Ener.
Whiskey Peak is Alabasta arc [It all ties in] and the SH's saved that Kingdom after defeating Crocodile.

You're twisting the definition of "save" around a bit. In these types of shonen manga, so long as there's a big bad villain with plans of destruction or domination, they'res always going to be "little people" who would suffer because of it.

I think you're confusing the term "rescue" with a general sense of "someone benefits." You could say the same thing for all or most of DragonBall's "arcs."

Miracles · Post by **Miracles** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:20 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:
Miracles wrote:We aren't talking about scenery, we are talking about how repetitive the plot is for every arc.
Thriller Bark is where the Sh pirates saved the members on Thriller Bark by getting everyone their shadows back [Even saved/gained Brooke].
You have to remember Enies Lobby/Water Seven is ONE arc and it basically turned out to be a rescue mission for Robin.
Skypiea easily was a rescue mission because save that island/Islanders from Ener.
Whiskey Peak is Alabasta arc [It all ties in] and the SH's saved that Kingdom after defeating Crocodile.
You're twisting the definition of "save" around a bit. In these types of shonen manga, so long as there's a big bad villain with plans of destruction or domination, they'res always going to be "little people" who would suffer because of it.

I think you're confusing the term "rescue" with a general sense of "someone benefits." You could say the same thing for all or most of DragonBall's "arcs."

Save/Rescue it is all the samething over and over.
Dragonball is guilty of a repettive save theme as are other many shonens. It's not surprising really, Shonens are not known for having good plots.

ssjcj · Post by **ssjcj** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:37 pm

Miracles wrote: Save/Rescue it is all the samething over and over.
Dragonball is guilty of a repettive save theme as are other many shonens. It's not surprising really, Shonens are not known for having good plots.

So what attracts you to DragonBall if you dislike the story?

Not intending to be offensive, I'm just interested.

Miracles · Post by **Miracles** » Thu May 21, 2009 5:20 pm

ssjcj wrote:
Miracles wrote: Save/Rescue it is all the samething over and over.
Dragonball is guilty of a repettive save theme as are other many shonens. It's not surprising really, Shonens are not known for having good plots.
So what attracts you to DragonBall if you dislike the story?

Not intending to be offensive, I'm just interested.

Did I say I "dislike" the Dragonball story...? I didn't....I always liked the story and action.
I think people misunderstood my point when I said Shonen generally has weak plots, as in very predictable and not deep. Shonens are mostly known for the drawing or action and characters.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Thu May 21, 2009 5:58 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Mr. Announcer wrote:...Oh well, I can't really dwell on it since One Piece totally deserves it in every way.
That is until Naruto takes the #1 spot.

Noooooooooooooot going to happen. Naruto is bound to end looooong before One Piece.

Miracles · Post by **Miracles** » Thu May 21, 2009 7:20 pm

I must give kubo Tite's "Bleach" props for even being in the top ten, the series only came out in 2001!!

Good Job Kubo!

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Thu May 21, 2009 7:39 pm

Miracles wrote:We aren't talking about scenery, we are talking about how repetitive the plot is for every arc.
Thriller Bark is where the Sh pirates saved the members on Thriller Bark by getting everyone their shadows back [Even saved/gained Brooke].
You have to remember Enies Lobby/Water Seven is ONE arc and it basically turned out to be a rescue mission for Robin.
Skypiea easily was a rescue mission because save that island/Islanders from Ener.
Whiskey Peak is Alabasta arc [It all ties in] and the SH's saved that Kingdom after defeating Crocodile.

You're generalizing WAY too much here.

In Naruto, every mission is either in Aid of saving a Client (there has been Two arcs based around Rescuing Sasuke, One around Rescuing Gaara, one about saving those people at the Bridge) or Rescuing the Villiage (the Chuunin exams started out as a tournament arc, but turned into "Save the Villiage" halfway through)

The First arc of Bleach was about saving the people of the town from the Hollows that would attack them, and there was always someone in Peril.
Soul Society was about Saving Rukia and Soul Society Mk II (AKA Hueco Mundo) was about Saving Orihime.

To say that the characters doing something that either willingly or inadvertently rescues or saves people makes a series repetitive, you've just named every single shounen series ever, Dragon Ball ESPECIALLY. EVERY ARC of DBZ was about saving people. (doesn't make it bad though)

What I'm saying about One Piece is the overall circumstances change drastically from arc to arc.
In one Arc they fight a tryanical Dictator, another they fight a Marine Captain bent on their capture, in Another they fight a Criminal Organization, in another they Fight GOD, in another they fight... some Random guy (Seriously, Foxy was just a Random dude) and their reasons are always different, and the Islands' settings never repeat themselves (IE, outside of Filler arcs, the Strawhats have never been to two winter islands twice)
You can accuse One Piece of a lot of things, but repetitive it is not, at least not any more or less repetitive than Every other Shounen... Ever...
My problem with Bleach is that Soul Society and Hueco Mundo are... the same Arc... almost exactly... All of the key plot points are the same... Ichigo is told not to go... defies them, goes in to save the kidnapped person with Ishida and Chad... they get led by a weak little character... Ishida wins his fight, Chad loses his... Ichigo almost loses his but gets saved by the weak guide character who turns out to be a Strong and Buxom female... I mean wow... It's the SAME Arc with different characters... The don't call me Nino fight was cool though

Naruto is about to End, which would be good as Kishi's pretty much lost focus... Sasuke's character makes no sense since the Itachi fight... first he hates his Brother... then he kills his brother... then Madara tells him how his Brother Loved the village so he did what he did to SAVE the village... so now Sasuke LOVES his brother... and wants to avenge him by... destroying the village that Itachi sacrificed everything to save?... it's enough to give me a migrane...

And Don't get me wrong, I hope and have faith that Kishi will fix this by the time he ends it... but The killing off characters for shock value during the Pain attack was odd...

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Fri May 22, 2009 12:32 am

Mr. Announcer wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Mr. Announcer wrote:...Oh well, I can't really dwell on it since One Piece totally deserves it in every way.
That is until Naruto takes the #1 spot.
That's the spirit, keep on dreaming, man.

Naw, I think you are the one trapped in that clown’s wet dream called One Piece.