New Unit Power List !!! What do you think about that one?

freezamite · Post by **freezamite** » Fri May 29, 2009 2:50 pm

Freezer 4a forma 100%: 12.000.000 <---------- Never seen on the manga!!!
Freezer 4a forma 100% (injured after genkidama and the fight with Goku SSJ while he still was at 50%): 2.600.000
Freezer 4a forma 50%: 6.000.000
Freezer 4a forma 50% (injured after genkidama): 1.500.000
Freezer 4a forma 100% (injured and exhausted): 1.500.000
Goku SSJ namek (injured after fighting against freeza but Infuriated): 2.555.500
Goku SSJ namek (Infuriated): 2.850.000 <-------- Never seen on the manga!!!
Mecha freezer: 750.000
Cold (Transformed): 900.000
Trunks SSJ: 2.000.000 - 2.200.000
Goku SSJ: 2.300.000 - 2.400.000

Three years later:

#19: 1.250.000
#20: 2.300.000
Piccolo: 2.550.000
Vegeta SSJ: 2.950.000
#17: 3.200.000
#18: 3.000.000
#16: 3.750.000
picolo + Kami Sama: 3.250.000
Cell in ginger town: 2.500.000
Cell 1st forma (with people absoved): 3.800.000
Cell 2nd form: 5.300.000
Vegeta: 6.200.000
Trunks: 6.000.000

Cell's Tournament:

Perfect Cell (not his full strength): 10.600.000
Goku SSJ Full power: 10.500.000
Gohan SSJ full power: 10.600.000
Perfect Cell (power released): 12.000.000
Gohan SSJ2 (angry): 14.400.000
Super Perfect Cell (after the explosion): 13.700.000

Post by **Herms** » Fri May 29, 2009 3:15 pm

So, basically you're using the notion that Freeza was severly weakened by the Genki-Dama to justify Cell being only marginally stronger than Freeza?

...Seems like stretch to me.

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Fri May 29, 2009 3:45 pm

Could you go back and translate the Spanish parts into English? There's some things I can figure out the meaning from context clues and proper nouns, but quite a bit of that post leaves me at a loss.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Fri May 29, 2009 3:56 pm

If Goku was only at 2 Million something when SSJ, then he would have never been able to compete with Freeza before turning SSJ, not in the slightest.

freezamite · Post by **freezamite** » Fri May 29, 2009 4:03 pm

All I say on that list can be absolutely justified with the manga, and furthermore, I think is the only list that didn't contradict the manga.
Later I will explain you why I think this list is what toriyama had on mind when wrote the android saga of Dragon Ball.

Regards.

teotihuacan · Post by **teotihuacan** » Fri May 29, 2009 4:33 pm

Nope.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Fri May 29, 2009 4:38 pm

Those numbers seem like a stretch, and you could never really accurately measure power levels after Goku's Super Saiyajin transformation. Toriyama said it was impossible to measure such numbers any how.

KillerCory · Post by **KillerCory** » Fri May 29, 2009 4:55 pm

Why do 50% of newbie posters make power level topics?

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Fri May 29, 2009 5:00 pm

KillerCory wrote:Why do 50% of newbie posters make power level topics?

Because either they try to impress the board, or they are just very young and are into that sort of thing. I'll admit I was into power levels for a while. I still acknowledge the ones that are in my Landmark Forever book or various Daizenshuu, but that's it.

Don't sweat it too much.

KillerCory · Post by **KillerCory** » Fri May 29, 2009 5:01 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:
KillerCory wrote:Why do 50% of newbie posters make power level topics?
Because either they try to impress the board, or they are just very young and are into that sort of thing. I'll admit I was into power levels for a while. I still acknowledge the ones that are in my Landmark Forever book or various Daizenshuu, but that's it.

Don't sweat it too much.

Yeah...

I admit...I was too. I wanted to know what everyones levels were.

Now the only levels that interest me are the ones that are actually stated.

On-topic...

Are the powerlevels in Landmark similar to the ones listed in Daizenshuu?

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Fri May 29, 2009 5:07 pm

KillerCory wrote:
Forgotten Hero wrote:
KillerCory wrote:Why do 50% of newbie posters make power level topics?
Because either they try to impress the board, or they are just very young and are into that sort of thing. I'll admit I was into power levels for a while. I still acknowledge the ones that are in my Landmark Forever book or various Daizenshuu, but that's it.

Don't sweat it too much.
Yeah...

I admit...I was too. I wanted to know what everyones power level were.

Now the only levels that interest me are the ones actually stated.

I just recently spent a bunch of my free time using statistics and calculus to find out a bunch of superfluous information about various people's power levels (rate of growth and h-what not). Sad really.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Fri May 29, 2009 5:16 pm

Freeza Heika wrote:
KillerCory wrote: Yeah...

I admit...I was too. I wanted to know what everyones power level were.

Now the only levels that interest me are the ones actually stated.

On-topic...

Are the powerlevels in Landmark similar to the ones listed in Daizenshuu?
I just recently spent a bunch of my free time using statistics and calculus to find out a bunch of superfluous information about various people's power levels (rate of growth and h-what not). Sad really.

Sad for us or you?
Spending time using calculus and statistics just makes the stigma on DBZ fan even greater. Sorry for your loss.

Yes, the power levels in Landmark were reprinted from the Daizenshuu.

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Fri May 29, 2009 5:41 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:
Freeza Heika wrote:
KillerCory wrote: Yeah...

I admit...I was too. I wanted to know what everyones power level were.

Now the only levels that interest me are the ones actually stated.

On-topic...

Are the powerlevels in Landmark similar to the ones listed in Daizenshuu?
I just recently spent a bunch of my free time using statistics and calculus to find out a bunch of superfluous information about various people's power levels (rate of growth and h-what not). Sad really.
Sad for us or you?
Spending time using calculus and statistics just makes the stigma on DBZ fan even greater. Sorry for your loss.

Yes, the power levels in Landmark were reprinted from the Daizenshuu.

At least I can honestly say that it was more Math wanking than fan wanking, if that makes sense.

lash · Post by **lash** » Fri May 29, 2009 5:48 pm

Base goku shouldn't be anything less then 1 million.

Freeza at 50% has to be greater then 20 million too

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Fri May 29, 2009 5:53 pm

Freeza Heika wrote:At least I can honestly say that it was more Math wanking than fan wanking, if that makes sense.

I guess? You just enjoy math then? Nothing wrong with that if that's the case.

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Fri May 29, 2009 5:56 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:
Freeza Heika wrote:At least I can honestly say that it was more Math wanking than fan wanking, if that makes sense.
I guess? You just enjoy math then? Nothing wrong with that if that's the case.

That is the case. I was doing things with random numbers anyway, so I decided to do something at least based on something rather than pulling numbers from my ass. Although, I was able to quantify the potential of characters, so I suppose, that could one day turn into a discussion.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Fri May 29, 2009 6:00 pm

Freeza Heika wrote:That is the case. I was doing things with random numbers anyway, so I decided to do something at least based on something rather than pulling numbers from my ass. Although, I was able to quantify the potential of characters, so I suppose, that could one day turn into a discussion.

Yeah! That's pretty cool. It's not very often I run across an avid math fan.

teotihuacan · Post by **teotihuacan** » Fri May 29, 2009 6:11 pm

SSJ goku is 150,000,000. freeza is 120,000,000 (100%)

freezamite · Post by **freezamite** » Fri May 29, 2009 8:02 pm

Well, it is my turn to demonstrate what I say on my list.
This list is not a simple estimation, I WILL DEMOSTRATE EVERY ONE OF THIS NUMBERS MATHEMATICALLY and ONLY USING THE MANGA.

To assure that my theory is not based on an error of translation, I WILL DEMONSTRATE WHAT I SAY USING 3 INDEPENDENT VERSIONS OF THE MANGA, THE ENGLISH VERSION, THE CASTILLIAN VESION AND THE CATALAN VERSION.

But firstly, before starting to give you the pages where you can find those numbers and explain you what I think about the DB manga, I will remember you some basic rules about dragon ball in wich my theory is based.

1. In DB, with a difference of power of 10% it is already possible to destroy the rival without any type of doubts.
It is demonstrated in the combat vegeta - dodoria.
We do not know the exact power that had dodoria at that moment, but we can deduce it approximately.
Dodoria knew that the power of vegeta was of approximately 18.000 before coming to namek, but in his arrival to namek, vegeta demonstrates that after the zenkay power his power had raised to 24.000.
From what Dodoria said about vegeta, we can assure he didn't consider him a rival before knowing that vegeta increased its power to 24.000, so is easily deducible that the power of dodoria was overcoming 18.000 with certain margin, the sufficient one to win with solvency vegeta.
Nevertheless, he detects the number of 24.000 and becomes terrified of vegeta. And then he loses without being able to object many resistance to vegeta.

I think dodoria had a power of 20.000, because vegeta could win the fight without using all his power. This is why with only having 10% more strength than your opponent, you can beat him easily.

2. The power of the base state of a sayan comes to a limit that once reached, one does not progress for much that he trains. Vegetat comes to this condition before the appearance of the androids 19 and 20, he explains that himself when he transformed in ssj and then we see it in the saga bu with a couple of pages dedicated to goku's training.
This means that vegeta, in the base state is as strong in the saga bu as he is in the android saga, once he reached this limit, he can't progress on this way.
In the manga this norm is kept always.
The limit of goku in his base condition is about 300.000 units, vegeta's limit is around 1.500.000 units, it is not said, but it is deduced easily from the manga series.

3. Control of energy.
We have in DB 2 types of beings in this sense, which can modify their capacity of assault and wich can not do that, and then some characters who are a mixing of both types.

For example, the normal human beings couldn't modify our capacity of assault.
That means that if my energy analyzed with a DB's scoutter is 1, it will be 1 always, even when I sleep or when I fight for my life. My force always will be of 1 point, nevertheless of the changes of effort that I realize.
With 1 unit I can stick fort or mop, or I can walk or run. But my power always will be of 1.

The second case is of whom they can control his energy. In this group we find the protas of our series, experts in martial arts.
This characters, with the only condition of not overpassing their maximum power level, can modify their energy to will, and inside this force, decide if they stick mop or fort.
Krilin, for example, that is undoubtedly the best controlling his energy, would decrease it's force to 0,5 units if he wanted to frighten a fly and then would hit it as softly as he could.

Finally, there exists people who is between these two groups, like the Cold family. The Cold family has certain control on their energy, but it is very limited.
It is for that, that they resort to transformations that allow them to diminish their power, and then from there they alter their energy and decide if to stick soft or hard.

Summarizing:
If I pass from wanting to kill someone to wanting to frighten a fly, I will limit myself to sticking hard or soft.

If krilin wants to do the same thing, first he will modify his energy to and then he will stick mop.

In case of freezer, first he will transform to the form with less power, then he will diminish his energy and finally he will stick soft.

These are the basic rules that toriyama invented for the DB manga, and aplying this rules to what is said on the mang, I will demonstrate my energy list.

SSJ goku is 150,000,000. freeza is 120,000,000 (100%)

Impossible, with a difference of 10% you can destroy your enemy without any fear of being defeat.
And furthermore, with my next message (that I will write tomorrow) I will demonstrate that those numbers are absolutely false.

Regards.

PS: I translated this text from the original one that was written in catalan using google translator and then I rewrote it to make it easier to understand.
But my english is far from being perfect, and the google translator is not very good, so I admit that this text could have a lot of gramatical errors.
Sorry for that.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Fri May 29, 2009 8:26 pm

It is said and has been confirmed (by the author) that SSJ multiplies the base power by 50. (unless I`m very mistaken)
That alone destroys your theory.

And your theory that states that 10% more power is enough to completly destroy the opponent with ease has many flaws.

Let me demonstrate with this example: The Goku and Vegeta fight during the sayan saga.

We know that Vegeta was 18 000 at the time. But we also know that Goku reached at least 21 000 while using Kaioken X 3.
Did he destroy Vegeta? No.

He later used kaioken x 4 which made him even more powerfull.
Did he destroy Vegeta? No.

Conclusion:

Battle power is only a indication. Fights are more than numbers. We can not conclude that 10% more power is enough to destroy an opponent with ease. Like it was stated in the series, battle power is a flawed system and not that accurate. It only serves as an indication.

So, this claim, "SSJ goku is 150,000,000. freeza is 120,000,000 (100%)" is very possible and likely given what we already know from the series (that second form freeza was over a million) and that SSJ multiplies the base power by 50.