Dragonball GT: Why Hate

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:47 pm

Victator Supreme wrote:Not even explaining what happened to the original Dragonballs, and why they could not just wish for the black star balls to be returned.

That's pretty much explained. Kaio directly tells Goku that the only way for the Black-Star Dragonballs to be returned to Earth is by "manually" gathering them; this confirms that any other method, including gathering the ordinary Earth set to wish them back to the planet, would not work (being out of Shenlong's power). Also, they weren't forgotten, there was just a new set of Dragonballs posing a huge danger for half the series. Remember, Videl actually brought up that smart idea in episode 2 about using the Earth's Dragonballs to move the Earth's populous to another planet, though it was agreed that should be saved only as a last resort (as the gang didn't wanna lose the home they've had all their lives).

I'll prob post my thoughts on GT later.

Travis Touchdown · Post by **Travis Touchdown** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:38 am

I don't hate GT, but I agree that it was handled poorly. I like the first half. That one seems well thought out and tells a great story. A worthy sequel if there ever was one. There are a few inconsistencies, but I can overlook them because they're like the manga plotholes; small and few & far between.

GT really goes downhill for me with the Super 17 saga. I've heard that GT was only supposed to be the Bebi saga, but they wanted people to buy Dragon Ball GT: Final Bout, so they extended it so the show would still be on the air at the time of the game's release. Whether this is a myth or not, it definitely shows since the story's quality goes down.

I mean, Super 17 saga just blasts off with no build up or motivation. It has huge gaping plotholes in nearly every episode. The Bebi Saga was nothing more than a very well re-write of The Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans, but Super 17 seems like a sloppy rewrite of both Fusion Reborn & Super Android 13.

The Shadow Dragon saga is mostly okay, but it depends on the Super 17 saga, so you can't just ignore it to get to Shadow Dragons. My biggest gripes are Vegeta's Super Saiyan 4 (I'll explain later) and the Dragon Balls cracking. While I think the DBs was a good idea, I can't help but wonder why. The last time they used the DBs was well over 15 years ago with the erasing of Mr. Buu from people's minds. So, why didn't the Dragon Balls crack then instead of ever-so-randomly 15+ years later?

Vegeta's SSJ4 I didn't like because his tail randomly disappeared after he powered out of it. Why? It's a limb/appendage. His body grew it back because of an overabundance of Bruits waves, so why or how did it just disappear. Also, when he powers down, he grows his shirt back. You literally SEE his shirt grow back. That just... defies any law of anything.

So all in all, I like GT. Despite its flaws, it's a good and very entertaining TV show. For my own personal canon, I accept the Bebi saga, the Goku Jr. special, and the Goku Jr. half of episode 64. But that's just me.

the_abberration · Post by **the_abberration** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:43 pm

Travis Touchdown wrote:The last time they used the DBs was well over 15 years ago with the erasing of Mr. Buu from people's minds. So, why didn't the Dragon Balls crack then instead of ever-so-randomly 15+ years later?

That's a good point. My theory; It was the wish that broke the dragon's balls (a'la the straw that broke the camel's back).

Travis Touchdown wrote:Vegeta's SSJ4 I didn't like because his tail randomly disappeared after he powered out of it. Why? It's a limb/appendage. His body grew it back because of an overabundance of Bruits waves, so why or how did it just disappear. Also, when he powers down, he grows his shirt back. You literally SEE his shirt grow back. That just... defies any law of anything.

I think those just boiled down to being lazy/sloppy. Case in point; In the old Hulk cartoons, Hulk would always regrow his clothes when he changed back into Banner. My beef was with Goku. He's a kid, but he can turn into an adult. Who did he think he was...Space Ace?

Booney · Post by **Booney** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:48 pm

Aah GT always good for some discussion.

As for my feelings towards this part of the series.
When I first watched I enjoyed it.
It aired here 3 years after Z first aired I believe.

So yeah, I was excited to see what had become of our fighters since I last saw them at the 28th Budokai.
Truth be told I didn't like some of the decisions the creators had made at some points, but at least I got to see something new so I didn't complain much.
I didn't even notice most of the plotholes back then, I mean, I was just a 13 year old kid who just came from school and wanted to watch some Dragonball action.

I think the things I hate about GT doesn't even apply to the actual series.
What bothers me are the "fans" that have to say they hate it every time they get the change.
All the nagging about designs and plotholes, ugh, so tiresome.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:03 pm

It goes both ways. There's also the fans of GT who can overreact if you say anything negative about it, even if you're making a point. Just because I point out flaws in something doesn't mean I hate it, but I'm not going to pretend the flaws don't exist.

Booney · Post by **Booney** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:42 am

Oh of course.
Just as much.

I guess I forgot to add it to my reply.

Coola Yagami · Post by **Coola Yagami** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:02 pm

I woulda preffered if all or at least most of the Dark Dragons were bad-ass. Sure one or 2 joke characters for the sake of the AT style, but the rest shoulda been downright serious and have awesome designs. I also felt everyone shoulda been involved. Goku thought SSJ4 was enough to take on all 7 alone? Bebi and Super 17 rocked his ass and he still felt he could do it alone? BULLSHIT. Toe end GT on a higher note, they shoulda had Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Uub and Vegeta split up and take on a dragon each. Give them time to shine, one last time you asshats.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:56 pm

Coola Yagami wrote:I woulda preffered if all or at least most of the Dark Dragons were bad-ass. Sure one or 2 joke characters for the sake of the AT style, but the rest shoulda been downright serious and have awesome designs. I also felt everyone shoulda been involved. Goku thought SSJ4 was enough to take on all 7 alone? Bebi and Super 17 rocked his ass and he still felt he could do it alone? BULLSHIT. Toe end GT on a higher note, they shoulda had Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Uub and Vegeta split up and take on a dragon each. Give them time to shine, one last time you asshats.

That would have been good, if more of the characters had split up and there had been some serious battles going on at the same time. I never really thought about that.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:41 pm

MajinKing · Post by **MajinKing** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:17 pm

Well DBGT had some great concept, but it just did not work out. I in the other hand dont hate gt. It does have some good ideas, although pan ruins it for me. SSJ4 was cool and so was golden Oozaru. Like everyone else said it centered too much on goku. Some of the main charecters of the show were treated as side charecters, vegeta only had his moment to shine in the final few episodes but, he hardly did anything other then fuse.

I think they shoud have also developed the vilains charecters more, baby only had like what? Two flashbacks of his past. Their are some good things in gt but it just does not work out. Like the ending was pretty good in my opinion, it was waaaaaaaaay better the Z's ending that is for sure.

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:15 am

from then on for the rest of the series he looks perfectly fucking fine.

The mustache was not the big problem. It was his hair just looked stupid. It looks like Toei doing a redesign just to do a redesign. It just ruined his look and Goten looked even worse.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:01 am

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:17 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Victator Supreme wrote:
from then on for the rest of the series he looks perfectly fucking fine.
The mustache was not the big problem. It was his hair just looked stupid. It looks like Toei doing a redesign just to do a redesign. It just ruined his look and Goten looked even worse.
I'll never argue for one microsecond against the fact that Goten's hair is a total trainwreck. But Vegeta's hair was only godawful when he had the Kid & Play flattop, which again, only lasted the ten or so minutes of that one episode (and was supposed to look stupid, considering how much he gets ragged on for it within the show).

After that, I simply don't fathom what the complaint is with his hair. It's the exact same damned haircut he's always had, just cut way, way shorter (so that it doesn't come to a single point). That's it. It looks perfectly okay to me.

Vegeta had a hair style that if you tinkered witrh it at all, it messed up his look. Also with Toei the hair really helped distinguish who is who. The fight with Vegeta vs Goten and Gohan was like that South Park where the boys heads were shaved. I kept expecting Goku to show up saying "Hey Guys who do you think I am?"

Travis Touchdown · Post by **Travis Touchdown** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:00 am

Victator Supreme wrote: It looks like Toei doing a redesign just to do a redesign. It just ruined his look and Goten looked even worse.

If memory serves me correctly, Vegeta and Goten's redesigns came from the man himself in his limited contributions of designs for Toei. There's a page floating around showing his sketches of all the characters. Toei pretty much went with all of them except for Krillin.

EDIT: yeah, right here. Herms' post, third one down.
http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=10641

the_abberration · Post by **the_abberration** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:40 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:Just to throw something out there about Vegeta's GT character design: for all the shit people give GT over "Moustache-Gate", Vegeta has the damn thing for a grand total of: one episode. That’s it.

For me, it wasn't the moustache or the hair. It was the fact that Vegeta didn't do not one verse of "Another One Bites the Dust". Or "Princes of the Universe" for that matter.

"Here I am. Born to be King. I'm the prince of all Saiyans."

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:09 pm

Travis Touchdown wrote:
Victator Supreme wrote: It looks like Toei doing a redesign just to do a redesign. It just ruined his look and Goten looked even worse.
If memory serves me correctly, Vegeta and Goten's redesigns came from the man himself in his limited contributions of designs for Toei. There's a page floating around showing his sketches of all the characters. Toei pretty much went with all of them except for Krillin.

EDIT: yeah, right here. Herms' post, third one down.
http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=10641

Goten looks better drawn by Toruyama but Vegeta somehow looks even worse.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:48 am

Travis Touchdown wrote:
Victator Supreme wrote: It looks like Toei doing a redesign just to do a redesign. It just ruined his look and Goten looked even worse.
If memory serves me correctly, Vegeta and Goten's redesigns came from the man himself in his limited contributions of designs for Toei. There's a page floating around showing his sketches of all the characters. Toei pretty much went with all of them except for Krillin.

EDIT: yeah, right here. Herms' post, third one down.
http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=10641

But we don't exactly know how much involvement Toriyama had in the GT series. Whose to say Toei could've told him what they wanted the characters to look like and he just drew them down?

On the topic, I don't see what everyone's problem is with Vegeta's GT design is. Yeah, Vegeta with the moustache and flat-top was horrible, but it only lasted for 1 episode. And his next character design was fine too. Bra and Trunks' design looked fine too, though the same can't be said for Goten. I found it strange that Goku had a tan though. What was that about?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:41 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:After that, I simply don't fathom what the complaint is with his hair. It's the exact same damned haircut he's always had, just cut way, way shorter (so that it doesn't come to a single point). That's it. It looks perfectly okay to me.

On its own, I like it even better than his Z designs (if nothing else, because it looks different).

But, with Goten's hair whacked down and Gohan missing the downwards-spike, it's too many characters looking too similar, especially at Super Saiyan.

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:59 pm

the_abberration wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:Just to throw something out there about Vegeta's GT character design: for all the shit people give GT over "Moustache-Gate", Vegeta has the damn thing for a grand total of: one episode. That’s it.
For me, it wasn't the moustache or the hair. It was the fact that Vegeta didn't do not one verse of "Another One Bites the Dust". Or "Princes of the Universe" for that matter.

"Here I am. Born to be King. I'm the prince of all Saiyans."

There ya go.

SuperSaiyan3Goku · Post by **SuperSaiyan3Goku** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:01 pm

What do I like/dislike about GT? Well, here goes:

Pros
The Dragonballs scattering across the Universe was a pretty cool concept, and the Earth blowing up if Goku, Pan and Trunks didn't bring them back in a year added a "Doomsday-like" aspect to it all.

Super Saiya-jin 4 was a cool transformation., and it's the only time you see Goku as an Adult. Although it looks way too much like a fan-made creation (Like all those old AF images) But it's still pretty cool, and I like the Jubai Kamehameha.

Super Saiya-jin 4 Gogeta is one of the best Fusions in the Dragonball Anime. Sure, he was silly like Vegetto and nothing like his SSJ counterpart, but still a cool character, and if he didn't goof off while fighting Super Yi Xing Long, he would've won!

Cons
Goku becoming a Kid was just dumb, IMO. Yeah, Toei wanted to give the viewers a little Nostalgia by having Goku become a Kid to make it have the Comedy of the original Dragonball series, but they failed. Goku still acts like a child even as an Adult, so this move was pretty much useless.

SSJ4 Goku is a really cool character, but just the idea of SSJ4 is a con because it just does not look anything like what an SSJ transformation from the Manga would look like.

Vegeta's hair is a pretty big con. Isn't Vegeta's hair supposed to stay the same forever? Can he even cut it? Goku never did, so why did he?

Goten's hair is the product of Satan. 'Nuff said.

The villains sucked. Bad. If the Villains are supposed to get stronger, than why is SSJ Goku fighting Rildo like he's battling Freeza? If Rildo is supposed to be so strong, than why does Goku battle him as an SSJ and hold his own? If Rildo was really stronger than Buu, Goku should have went to SSJ3.

Kanzenshuu

Dragonball GT: Why Hate

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