Toriyama's GT Designs

DragonBalllKaiHD · Post by **DragonBalllKaiHD** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:20 pm

Jackal puFF wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:
Jackal puFF wrote:I still don't understand how Goku is still taller than Vegeta in Saiyan 4 form..
....Are you serious? Son Goku has always been taller than the Prince of all Saiyans, Vegeta.
Yeah but he was a kid at the time he transformed. Vegeta was regular height. Makes me think more how a kid suddenly turns to an adult. Would Goku look even more different if he transformed as an adult? makes me wonder.

No difference. Would Kid Vegeta (in present design, same design as Vegeta Jr) look different as an adult in SSJ4 form?

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:43 am

I thought Goku turned into an Adult because Super Saiyan 4's ki is so high it cancels out the Black Star wish... ?

Commander_Red · Post by **Commander_Red** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:59 am

The anime sorta messed up Toriyama's take on Vegeta there, didn't they? It looks like he's a lot wrinklier than what TOEI did with it... More of an old man look rather than "hey it's Vegeta with a mustache".

Tibby · Post by **Tibby** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:28 am

I'm still not impressed with most of the designs, even if they are Toriyama's creations. However his illustrations featuring Goku, Pan, and Trunks fighting/exploring each planet are still very cool. It's shame the series itself wasn't nearly as exciting as his sketches.

Saiyan-Professor wrote:So Toriyama is responsible for Bra’s whole Lolicon theme.

This is surprising?

DNA · Post by **DNA** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:43 am

The Time Traveller wrote:I thought Goku turned into an Adult because Super Saiyan 4's ki is so high it cancels out the Black Star wish... ?

That would make sense, the correct way to do it would be if the Super Saiyan 4 transformation would cancel the wish for good.

Coming back and forth from child to adult is just stupid, and just points out more the whole "magic trousers" controversy.

Watch the whole series and pay attention to every Super Saiyan 4 transformation. You never actually see it happening, apart from the first time.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:11 am

Tibby wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:So Toriyama is responsible for Bra’s whole Lolicon theme.
<<Lolicon Chichi pic>>

This is surprising?

Good point. It really is just the face of Bra that makes her too old.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:41 pm

so Toriyama was responsible for Vegeta's GT Design?...
Uuugh, Like Pixar with "Cars", this just goes to show nobody's perfect...

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:52 pm

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:01 am

DemonRin wrote:so Toriyama was responsible for Vegeta's GT Design?...
Uuugh, Like Pixar with "Cars", this just goes to show nobody's perfect...

Pixar had no say in the script. That's why Cars 2 is going to kick ass: it's the script Pixar wanted to use.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:03 am

The Time Traveller wrote:I thought Goku turned into an Adult because Super Saiyan 4's ki is so high it cancels out the Black Star wish... ?

Are you saying that insanely powerful ki can cancel out Shenlong's wishes?

Jackal puFF · Post by **Jackal puFF** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:07 am

DNA wrote:
The Time Traveller wrote:I thought Goku turned into an Adult because Super Saiyan 4's ki is so high it cancels out the Black Star wish... ?
That would make sense, the correct way to do it would be if the Super Saiyan 4 transformation would cancel the wish for good.

Coming back and forth from child to adult is just stupid, and just points out more the whole "magic trousers" controversy.

Watch the whole series and pay attention to every Super Saiyan 4 transformation. You never actually see it happening, apart from the first time.

Yeah really weird. I wonder how he does it lol.

Post by **Herms** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:37 am

Pain wrote:Are you saying that insanely powerful ki can cancel out Shenlong's wishes?

That's sort of in line with Kame-sennin's explanation of Shenlong's limits in volume 21: "That probably wouldn’t work...Shenlong said so. He said…that the dragonballs can’t grant a wish that surpasses the power of the one who made them…That is to say, they cannot suppress tremendous power…So even Shenlong couldn’t do anything about the Saiyans." (the "cannot surpress tremendous power" part gets left out in Viz).

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:49 am

And with the Ultimate DBs being as dangerous 'and powerful' as they were...I suppose it would only make sense for the ultimate super awesome power of the Super Saiyan 4 to be the last, working chance for [awesome] victory over it's evil force...

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:43 pm

I'm so happy that someone at Toei noticed that Vegeta looked terrible in his first few appearances in GT and decided to try and make him look more normal by the Bebi/Super17/Evil Dragons part.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:25 pm

Pain wrote:
The Time Traveller wrote:I thought Goku turned into an Adult because Super Saiyan 4's ki is so high it cancels out the Black Star wish... ?
Are you saying that insanely powerful ki can cancel out Shenlong's wishes?

Undoubtedly. The maximum power of the wish is directly proportional to the maximum power the maker of the DBs. A practical example instead of the verbal ones given by Herms would be when we see Goku refuse to be teleported after Krillin is brought back to life: he was stronger than Muri at that point, so his not wanting to be teleported prevented Porunga from doing so.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:03 pm

Dayspring wrote:A practical example instead of the verbal ones given by Herms would be when we see Goku refuse to be teleported after Krillin is brought back to life: he was stronger than Muri at that point, so his not wanting to be teleported prevented Porunga from doing so.

So pre-seperation Piccolo was stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:51 pm

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:28 pm

DNA wrote:
The Time Traveller wrote:I thought Goku turned into an Adult because Super Saiyan 4's ki is so high it cancels out the Black Star wish... ?
That would make sense, the correct way to do it would be if the Super Saiyan 4 transformation would cancel the wish for good.

Coming back and forth from child to adult is just stupid, and just points out more the whole "magic trousers" controversy.

Pilaf's wish to turn Goku into a kid also shrunk his clothes, when Goku turns Super Saiyan 4 the wish is broken so his clothes are restored to an adult size, and when he turns normal the wish kicks back in and turns him into a kid, and would also affect his clothes.

Wait, what about his gi?

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:43 pm

Just for references sake, where is it explicilitly said being wished back into a child made Son weaker? I thought it only made Super Saiyan 3 nigh impossible and took away his Instant Movement? A databook or even a line reference would be nice *glad he has the whole GT series*

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:20 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Dayspring wrote:A practical example instead of the verbal ones given by Herms would be when we see Goku refuse to be teleported after Krillin is brought back to life: he was stronger than Muri at that point, so his not wanting to be teleported prevented Porunga from doing so.
So pre-seperation Piccolo was stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Seeing how they didn't die out altogether when he became Kami and Daimao, I figure the rules are slightly different for the Blackstar DBs.

EDIT: Or maybe SSJ3 KID Goku is weaker than current Piccolo?

That and, of course, the obligatory "it's GT" answer.