Personality traits Vegeta and Kakkarot have in common..

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:52 pm

SaiyaMel wrote:I don't think Kakkarot had a choice at that point? He had to stall Babidi and Buu to buy Trunks some time,,, thus greatly reducing the time he had left on Earth.

I do not know if it was mentioned but he could have quickly killed Fat Buu, which would have saved time, and then teach them the fusion in case some greater threat showed up later.

SaiyaMel · Post by **SaiyaMel** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:51 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
SaiyaMel wrote:I don't think Kakkarot had a choice at that point? He had to stall Babidi and Buu to buy Trunks some time,,, thus greatly reducing the time he had left on Earth.
I do not know if it was mentioned but he could have quickly killed Fat Buu, which would have saved time, and then teach them the fusion in case some greater threat showed up later.

While I agree it was rather irresponsible of him handing over such a load on the shoulders of such young inexperienced kids... he would have had to go SSJ3 anyways (which drained most of his time) in order to destroy Fat Buu, which probably wouldn't be as effortless a task for him as you might think - didn't the news get to him about Vegeta's in vain sacrifice against FB? All of Buu's forms can regenerate from mere vapors.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:06 pm

SaiyaMel wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:
SaiyaMel wrote:I don't think Kakkarot had a choice at that point? He had to stall Babidi and Buu to buy Trunks some time,,, thus greatly reducing the time he had left on Earth.
I do not know if it was mentioned but he could have quickly killed Fat Buu, which would have saved time, and then teach them the fusion in case some greater threat showed up later.
While I agree it was rather irresponsible of him handing over such a load on the shoulders of such young inexperienced kids... he would have had to go SSJ3 anyways (which drained most of his time) in order to destroy Fat Buu, which probably wouldn't be as effortless a task for him as you might think - didn't the news get to him about Vegeta's in vain sacrifice against FB? All of Buu's forms can regenerate from mere vapors.

Later he tells Vegeta before he fights Kidd Buu that he could have easily killed Fat Buu as Super Saiyan 3, Kakarrot wasted a lot of time playing around with Buu. If he had not done so and got serious from the beginning he would have had plenty of time to train the kids in the basics of Fusion (Piccolo could have taught them the rest) and tell everyone goodbye.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:12 am

Rocketman wrote:
Victator Supreme wrote:
Rocketman wrote:Anyway, one is a selfish twisted little asshole with the deaths of millions on his hands. The other is Vegeta.
Except not really.
"Yeah, I could kill him now...but I'd rather leave it for a seven and eight year old to do!"

"Whoopsie."

Piccolo was the one who told Buu to kill everyone on Earth. And if you want to get technical, if it weren't for Vegeta and him wanting to "Bcum the Evlz Agen!!1!!" then Buu probably wouldn't have been revived in the first place.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:26 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
SaiyaMel wrote:I don't think Kakkarot had a choice at that point? He had to stall Babidi and Buu to buy Trunks some time,,, thus greatly reducing the time he had left on Earth.
I do not know if it was mentioned but he could have quickly killed Fat Buu, which would have saved time, and then teach them the fusion in case some greater threat showed up later.

With no immediate threat and Gohan coming back, I doubt Goku would have wasted time teaching the kids Fusion. They probably would have spent that remaining time having fun.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:24 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:Are you just going to pretend that he didn't tell Piccolo that he was leaving the rest of the Fusion training to him back when he first decided to train Goten and Trunks?

No, becuase it doesn't matter whether Goku or Piccolo is teaching the kids - the problem is it takes time to teach them. Goku was just hoping that Buu wouldn't kill everyone/blow up the planet before Piccolo managed to drill the technique through the kids' five inch-thick skulls.

You have a bad habit of leaving out important details to make your arguments look better. Like claiming that Gohan reverted back to a crybaby when Cell came back even though he was about to fight Cell until your beloved Vegeta jumped in and Gohan decided to save him and thus got his arm fucked up and lost more than half of his energy. That's when he started crying about things getting hopeless - when they really were.

I cannot fault a man for succumbing to rage when his son is killed.

But you do have a point. My main problem with that it's it's really hard for me to accept "Yays, Gohan is the new hero!" when he starts blubbering when things get tough.

Metalwario64 wrote:Piccolo was the one who told Buu to kill everyone on Earth. And if you want to get technical, if it weren't for Vegeta and him wanting to "Bcum the Evlz Agen!!1!!" then Buu probably wouldn't have been revived in the first place.

Buu was at half power just from Gohan's energy. Goku vs Vegeta released him a bit early, but Gohan getting his ass shredded by Dabura would've done the same.

DragonBalllKaiHD · Post by **DragonBalllKaiHD** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:37 pm

Rocketman wrote: No, becuase it doesn't matter whether Goku or Piccolo is teaching the kids - the problem is it takes time to teach them. Goku was just hoping that Buu wouldn't kill everyone/blow up the planet before Piccolo managed to drill the technique through the kids' five inch-thick skulls.

Aren't you forgetting something important? Mark saved the world by changing Boo's bad habit. If it wasn't for two idiots, Evil Boo wouldn't have come out of Fat Boo. Goku would still be in heaven. Piccolol still would teach the kids the art of Fusion, just in case some new future threat comes to Earth.

Rocketman wrote:I cannot fault a man for succumbing to rage when his son is killed. But you do have a point. My main problem with that it's it's really hard for me to accept "Yays, Gohan is the new hero!" when he starts blubbering when things get tough.

In the end, by killing Cell, Gohan has become magnificent warrior, just like Piccolo had predicted when he first met Gohan in the wilderness. He is not crybaby anymore. He has grown to be a mature warrior. Give him some darn credit, you whiner.

Rocketman wrote: Buu was at half power just from Gohan's energy. Goku vs Vegeta released him a bit early, but Gohan getting his ass shredded by Dabura would've done the same.

Like that will happen. Gohan is roughly equal to Dabura. As we all know, Gohan had power equal to Super Perfect Cell years ago. Vegeta and Goku stated that Dabura is nothing and that he is about same as Cell. We assume he meant Super Perfect Cell. So it's safe for Gohan to fight Dabura, however hard time he may have. It's the only reason why Dabura withdrew to inform Babidi of "perfect warrior."

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:35 pm

Rocketman wrote:I cannot fault a man for succumbing to rage when his son is killed.

But you do have a point. My main problem with that it's it's really hard for me to accept "Yays, Gohan is the new hero!" when he starts blubbering when things get tough.

You can't fault a grown man for succumbing to rage, when his son is killed, but you CAN fault a measly kid for feeling the pressure when his dad just died in front of him and the entire world is breaking apart on his shoulders?

Daburcor · Post by **Daburcor** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:12 pm

mAcChaos wrote:
Rocketman wrote:I cannot fault a man for succumbing to rage when his son is killed.

But you do have a point. My main problem with that it's it's really hard for me to accept "Yays, Gohan is the new hero!" when he starts blubbering when things get tough.
You can't fault a grown man for succumbing to rage, when his son is killed, but you CAN fault a measly kid for feeling the pressure when his dad just died in front of him and the entire world is breaking apart on his shoulders?

Eight or nine-year-old kids should be made of tougher stuff than full-grown, super-strong men. Get with it, man!

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:16 pm

Daburcor wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:
Rocketman wrote:I cannot fault a man for succumbing to rage when his son is killed.

But you do have a point. My main problem with that it's it's really hard for me to accept "Yays, Gohan is the new hero!" when he starts blubbering when things get tough.
You can't fault a grown man for succumbing to rage, when his son is killed, but you CAN fault a measly kid for feeling the pressure when his dad just died in front of him and the entire world is breaking apart on his shoulders?
Eight or nine-year-old kids should be made of tougher stuff than full-grown, super-strong men. Get with it, man!

But Gohan was 11 dewd!!

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:01 pm

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Aren't you forgetting something important? Mark saved the world by changing Boo's bad habit. If it wasn't for two idiots, Evil Boo wouldn't have come out of Fat Boo. Goku would still be in heaven. Piccolol still would teach the kids the art of Fusion, just in case some new future threat comes to Earth.

Goku didn't know about Hercule being able to do that, thus I left it out.

In the end, by killing Cell, Gohan has become magnificent warrior, just like Piccolo had predicted when he first met Gohan in the wilderness. He is not crybaby anymore. He has grown to be a mature warrior. Give him some darn credit, you whiner.

Oh bull. He pitched a pussy fit about having to fight, turned into a dickhead worse than Vegeta, then went back to giving up and telling Cell to just kill him/the Earth/the whole damn universe until Daddy steps in again.

And then in Bojack, he needed Daddy to step in again.

And then in Buu, he'd been sitting on his ass for seven years.

Like that will happen. Gohan is roughly equal to Dabura. As we all know, Gohan had power equal to Super Perfect Cell years ago. Vegeta and Goku stated that Dabura is nothing and that he is about same as Cell. We assume he meant Super Perfect Cell. So it's safe for Gohan to fight Dabura, however hard time he may have. It's the only reason why Dabura withdrew to inform Babidi of "perfect warrior."

Even Goku was agreeing that Gohan was doing horribly against Dabura.

In any case, i argue that after Buu reached half-power, it didn't really matter. If Buu had been released at half-power, there'd just be a couple more scenes of someone blowing him up, then Buu reforming.

mAcChaos wrote:You can't fault a grown man for succumbing to rage, when his son is killed, but you CAN fault a measly kid for feeling the pressure when his dad just died in front of him and the entire world is breaking apart on his shoulders?

Yes, because the only reason Goku died and the world hung in the balance is because Gohan fucked up.

Eight or nine-year-old kids should be made of tougher stuff than full-grown, super-strong men. Get with it, man!

The guy we're supposed to feel all happy for because he's taken Goku's place should be made of tougher stuff. Did Goku break down blubbering when King Piccolo was beating his ass?

alakazam^ · Post by **alakazam^** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:36 pm

Goku was already dead, he shouldn't be held responsible for what Buu did or did not. Just because he supposedly had the power to kill Buu, it doesn't mean he had that duty. He was right in wanting them to stand up for themselves because he wasn't returning.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:08 am

Rocketman wrote:
Eight or nine-year-old kids should be made of tougher stuff than full-grown, super-strong men. Get with it, man!
The guy we're supposed to feel all happy for because he's taken Goku's place should be made of tougher stuff. Did Goku break down blubbering when King Piccolo was beating his ass?

The kid didn't like violence, yet was the worlds fate was being forced onto his shoulders against his will.

When Gohan gains the upper hand, he becomes very vengeful, which leads him to provoke Cell into destroying the world. Goku did the same thing on Namek. Then because of this, he is forced to watch his father give up his own life right in front of him because he couldn't control his rage that his father wanted him to bring out.

Goku didn't go through that when Demon King Piccolo was beating him, and Goku was older than Gohan by that point anyway. Gohan was eager to finish Cell off afterward anyway, as pointed out earlier in the thread. That plan was sent straight to hell when Vegeta jumped in causing Gohan's arm to be broken, thus weakening him a great deal.

Cell was stronger than ever, so how else was he supposed to feel about the whole situation?

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:30 am

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:43 am

The only reason Gohan got a chance to fuck up is because Vegeta fucked up and let Cell become Perfect. : P

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:58 am

I think they would've saved themselves all the trouble if they'd just gone over to Dr. Gero's and destroyed his lab right after Trunks told them about it instead of waiting it out for the chance to fight the jinzoningen in the first place. o_O;;

But that's neither here nor there.

It also would've effectively ended (maybe? Or it would've at least sent it flying in another direction) the Cell arc rather anticlimactically though.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:12 pm

mAcChaos wrote:The only reason Gohan got a chance to fuck up is because Vegeta fucked up and let Cell become Perfect. : P

And Krillin fucked up and let Cell become Perfect.

And Goku fucked up and put all his trust into his nine-year-old son.

And Piccolo fucked up and led Cell right to 17 and 18.

Piccolo himself said it plain as day to Goku during the Cell Game: Gohan ISN’T his father (in fact almost NO kid is generally like Goku, who could almost rightly bear the label of “freak of nature”). Gohan isn’t a fighter by nature, nor had he ever remotely wanted to be one in the first place. For all the power that genetics and a shitload of training forced on him since childhood gave him, at heart he’s still just an ordinary, frightened little kid being forced to shoulder the kind of responsibility that NO kid his age should EVER be asked to shoulder

Which is why I don't want him to be the hero.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:25 pm

Rocketman wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:The only reason Gohan got a chance to fuck up is because Vegeta fucked up and let Cell become Perfect. : P
And Krillin fucked up and let Cell become Perfect.

And Goku fucked up and put all his trust into his nine-year-old son.

And Piccolo fucked up and led Cell right to 17 and 18.

Piccolo himself said it plain as day to Goku during the Cell Game: Gohan ISN’T his father (in fact almost NO kid is generally like Goku, who could almost rightly bear the label of “freak of nature”). Gohan isn’t a fighter by nature, nor had he ever remotely wanted to be one in the first place. For all the power that genetics and a shitload of training forced on him since childhood gave him, at heart he’s still just an ordinary, frightened little kid being forced to shoulder the kind of responsibility that NO kid his age should EVER be asked to shoulder
Which is why I don't want him to be the hero.

-Krillin did it because he was in love. Vegeta let Cell become perfect so he can prove how big his dick is. Krillin's reasons were a lot more noble than Vegeta's.

-Goku doesn't know better and figured that Gohan was confident. And he was right to put trust in an 11 year old boy, since he, ya know, KILLED CELL

-I don't think Piccolo really counted on Cell finding them so easily. That was more of the Androids fault themselves than anything.

Rocketman wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Aren't you forgetting something important? Mark saved the world by changing Boo's bad habit. If it wasn't for two idiots, Evil Boo wouldn't have come out of Fat Boo. Goku would still be in heaven. Piccolol still would teach the kids the art of Fusion, just in case some new future threat comes to Earth.
Goku didn't know about Mr. Satan being able to do that, thus I left it out.

In the end, by killing Cell, Gohan has become magnificent warrior, just like Piccolo had predicted when he first met Gohan in the wilderness. He is not crybaby anymore. He has grown to be a mature warrior. Give him some darn credit, you whiner.
Oh bull. He pitched a pussy fit about having to fight, turned into a dickhead worse than Vegeta, then went back to giving up and telling Cell to just kill him/the Earth/the whole damn universe until Daddy steps in again.

And then in Bojack, he needed Daddy to step in again.

And then in Buu, he'd been sitting on his ass for seven years.

Didn't we JUST go over the fact that Gohan was about to fight Cell and didn't start whining until Vegeta jumped in and Gohan was forced to save him and thus injure his arm.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:44 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:-Krillin did it because he was in love. Vegeta let Cell become perfect so he can prove how big his dick is. Krillin's reasons were a lot more noble than Vegeta's.

Bullshit. Krillin did it because he wanted to fuck 18. Don't sugarcoat it.

-Goku doesn't know better and figured that Gohan was confident. And he was right to put trust in an 11 year old boy, since he, ya know, KILLED CELL

After Goku and Trunks got killed. And a whole lot of whining and moaning. And Daddy stepping in a few times.

-I don't think Piccolo really counted on Cell finding them so easily. That was more of the Androids fault themselves than anything.

Androids can't be sensed. Cell located them by following Piccolo's ki as he fought.

Didn't we JUST go over the fact that Gohan was about to fight Cell and didn't start whining until Vegeta jumped in and Gohan was forced to save him and thus injure his arm.

One moment of bravery versus four of being a pussy.

DragonBalllKaiHD · Post by **DragonBalllKaiHD** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:49 pm

Rocketman wrote:<snip>

You have a grudge against all DB characters, don't you? Except maybe Bardock.

Do you really have to speak with foul language?