Xenophobia: How does it impact the DragonBall fanbase?

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Ok regardless of its origin my background is the English Language. Therefore its only natural that I would want to listen to the dialog in English. Sure Dragonball has its roots in Japan and I respect that but Id prefer to hear the dialog in English. Just like any other person out their in the world, I'd prefer things to be in my native tongue so I can understand them easily.

If I knew Japanese maybe I wouldn't mind listening to the dialog in Japanese but I don't so I won't if I have the choice. I can read subs just fine but I prefer the dubs because it just feels right.

Your statements are pretty similar to what Corey was talking about in his initial post. They don't make a whole lot of sense (well, perhaps they do to you), but there's an equal amount on the other side of the fence.

I'm from the US and my primary language is English, yet I would never once think to play/watch DBZ in English if I had the choice. There are plenty of other forum members/visitors/listeners from countries throughout the world with entirely different primary languages, countries of origin, etc. that also wouldn't think twice and immediately do so in Japanese.

Of course, you could argue that there's a huge amount who'd play it with their own local dub, too.

The question is really... why? You keep answering "because I speak English" or "I'm from America". That doesn't concretely answer the question, though, because there's an equally-massed audience that sees it entirely differently.

That leads me to believe there inherently can't be a blanket statement/answer to the question, and is ultimately up to the individual. That's further complicated, though, by our poking holes through all of those

I think it doesn't make sense to you because, correct me if I'm wrong, you also speak and understand Japanese(as a second language). I do not know Japanese and therefore would rather hear it in a language I know and understand.

Yes I'm sure there are countless people out there from France, Italy, China, South America etc. who would also prefer to listen to Dragonball or other anime in the Japanese audio. However like you, a lot of those people are a little more hardcore anime watchers. The stronger populous, the ones who watch anime every so often would rather listen to the anime in there native tounge.

I'm sure there are some people out there but do you think the major population in Japan listen to shows like Batman and the Simpson in English because of its original audio?

[VegettoEX]

I think it doesn't make sense to you because, correct me if I'm wrong, you also speak and understand Japanese(as a second language).

No. I don't. I took a single semester in college nearly a decade ago and can barely get my way through basic hiragana reading these days.

[Wojak]

I unfortunately don't really follow you, Wojak . Can anyone else clarify that for me?

What I mean is simply that although for some people it's easy to read subtitles and listening to the sound of a movie or something, to others it's difficult to do so. It's as normal to be able to do so as not being able to do so.
We are speaking about different cortex in the brain, and as it's normal for you to be able to read an English subtitle and listening to the Japanese sound track, it isn't to others, as we are differently built in our brains.

The visual and the auditory cortex in the brain are separated, not combined, and it takes for some people some work to overcome that, especially younger and old individuals. And as we know a lot of Dragonball's fanbase consist of younger individuals who aren't as experienced in those things as we older ones are.

Personally, I have some ADD related problems, so I can't listen and read at once.

I hope that you follow me now.

I honestly cannot comprehend how this is the "obvious" choice. To me, the default/immediate/first/"obvious" choice is to switch it to Japanese. DBZ is Japanese, so I'll play it in Japanese. It's clearly not a blanket decision.

Well, I would like to say that the choice is based on both on an individual part and on one's own logic.
Your choice is as logical as SparkyPantsMcGee's choice to me.
You, one one hand, has put effort and time into learning Japanese, since you enjoy it better in Japanese, whereas SparkyPantsMcGee enjoy it better in English, and thus doesn't bother learning Japanese or using the Japanese audio.
Why change something that is perfect for oneself?
For you, the Japanese version is the perfect one, and for SparkyPantsMcGee it's the English dub, simply said.

EDIT

I think it doesn't make sense to you because, correct me if I'm wrong, you also speak and understand Japanese(as a second language).

No. I don't. I took a single semester in college nearly a decade ago and can barely get my way through basic hiragana reading these days.

Some people don't give a shit about other languages, simply.
They go through their whole lives without learning anything else than their native language.
It's just not appealing to some people and people are just lazy enough to stick to what they understand.
Of course I don't mean you specifically.
It is easiest to listen to your own native language.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

I think it doesn't make sense to you because, correct me if I'm wrong, you also speak and understand Japanese(as a second language).

No. I don't. I took a single semester in college nearly a decade ago and can barely get my way through basic hiragana reading these days.

Hmm, I think Wojack pretty much nailed it. There's nothing wrong with liking either one. Its all about personal preference and what you are accustomed to.

So going back to the original question on the inclusion of Japanese audio, for me personally its not a selling point but there is a demand and its best if they sell both versions or hell a multi-lingual version so we can start seeing the same day releases for games and DVD box sets.

Also, when it comes to the average person I don't think its about fear but rather personal preference. Of course there will be extremists on both sides of the spectrum but they aren't the major populous.

[Son Wukong]

If the poster in question was xenophobic I doubt they'd be playing a Japanese fighting game in the first place.

I don't think a xenophobe would give a damn if he knew it was from country-X as long as it would be available for him in his mother tongue and all of the aspects changed in a way that is understandable for his simple mind.

Anime yells out ''Japan!'' because it was made by the Japanese for the Japanese. Why do you think none of the anime series that are being released on DVD/Blu-ray in Japan have English subtitles? Honestly, the Japanese creators/producers/directors don't even stand still for a moment to think whether they should change something because it would be more understandable for the foreign viewers. On the contrary (as MajinVegeta pointed out himself) the Japanese are a bit xenophobes themselves. But do I think that most of the people who don't like the Japanese side are xenophobes? Well, let's see what the definition of a xenophobe would be,

The free Dictionary:
A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign.

Fear? Hmm, that would be a bit extreme. But contemptuous?

The free Dictionary:
Manifesting or feeling contempt; scornful.

Adjective
showing or feeling strong dislike or -->disrespect<--

Disrespecting the foreign (Japanese) culture and not be willing to adapt for a single moment as to try and understand a bit of what this cultural manifestation from Japan that is called ''anime'' is trying to convey would be my explanation.

Have you ever wondered about why the foreign distributors don't just paste subtitles on imported series and be done with it? Because it's hard for people to keep up with the rest while reading (bullshit)? So why go and record your own music, change dialogue and complete characters (and in the process f8ck up the series in some sort of way 80% of the times)? Because that way the viewer can associate himself easier with his own culture. Otherwise, their would be a chance that he'll reject it, which would mean less profit for the company that is distributing.

For example (and you may or may not call me tedious about this one), when Trunks got killed by Cell, there was a line we heard Vegeta say while he was having a flashback of Goku in the Funimation dub,

''Kakarot, this is all your fault!''.

In the Japanese version he doesn't say anything! Vegeta was not just mad that his son was killed but also that there were already two victims (hence the flashback to Goku) that Cell caused while he (the proud prince that he is) himself stood there useless. But dub companies like Funimation have to go and include such a meaningless line to the dialogue because he's THE bad boy of the show and can't have a sentimental moment for someone else but his own family, especially not his rival!

But there are also moments when cultures inevitably collide and the only thing that stays left is just a lot of disrespect and ignorance. This time I'll take the creator of the Metal Gear franchise, Hideo Kojima, as an example. When Mr.Kojima was creating the story for MGS2 he was trying to appeal more to young female gamers, but also try not to lose his male population. Thus he created Raiden. The main hero with a slender body and blond silky smooth hair.
The western reaction could be summed up as:
''OMG, this game sucks! Who is this fag with blond hair? He can't be the badass hero. He should have an eye patch with a scar on his face and go Arrrgg!''

The Japanese demographic was equally disappointed but not because he was slender and blond. To them, Raiden was a bishonen (a typical beautifull boy apperance in the world of anime and manga) who could be tough, strong and badass but......... he was simply not Snake (the previous non-bishonen hero in MGS1).

Could these things manifest itself into actual fear for the strange? Sure they can. Can it have any positive aspects on the anime/manga franchises, including DB? Not in a million years.

[JulieYBM]

But dub companies like Funimation have to go and include such a meaningless line to the dialogue because he's THE bad boy of the show and can't have a sentimental moment for someone else but his own family, especially not his rival!

Such phraseology shows a bit of a misunderstanding of current standards. FUNimation doesn't do those sorts of things anymore, and neither do the dubs produced by other companies, sans those like 4Kids trying to sell a toy.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Some people don't give a shit about other languages, simply.
They go through their whole lives without learning anything else than their native language.
It's just not appealing to some people and people are just lazy enough to stick to what they understand.
Of course I don't mean you specifically.
It is easiest to listen to your own native language.

I understand what your saying. Its not like I hate the original audio or dismiss it because its not my language I just prefer(because its easier) to listen to something in English. I would love to learn Japanese one day it would be very cool(however I don't have the spare time and I have more important things to take care of first).

I don't have a problem with Subs I can watch no problem but it is hard for some people. Here is a perfect example My mother didn't enjoy the Last Samurai until the second time watching because she had a hard time following the subs. I had to explain what was going on because she was not accustomed to Subs and couldn't really follow along.

This is the same problem for many people(especially the younger audience) because they will try to watch something but they are having a hard time keeping up until the eventually just give up entirely.

It took me awhile to get use to Subs but after I did I thought it was very cool to see the shows I was watching in English presented in their intended state. However, thats just it for me. Its sort of like a novelty I won't go out of my way to see the subs if I have the choice however I may go back to it at a different time and look at it in a brand new light.

Does that make more sense VegettoEX?

[Innagadadavida]

Have you ever wondered about why the foreign distributors don't just paste subtitles on imported series and be done with it? Because it's hard for people to keep up with the rest while reading (bullshit)? So why go and record your own music, change dialogue and complete characters (and in the process f8ck up the series in some sort of way 80% of the times)? Because that way the viewer can associate himself easier with his own culture. Otherwise, their would be a chance that he'll reject it, which would mean less profit for the company that is distributing.

You're exactly right, there isn't a large enough market of people who prefer subtitles to go with that alone. So yes it's about profit, for both the foreign distributer and the creators of the original product. But with that added version, with all it's changed dialog, music, and story elements, comes the original. Whether or not one enjoys watching a foreign product through spoken translation or written translation is irrelevant, the dubs serve a very important purpose. A spoken English version opens the product up to a much wider audience and the distributors can now afford to release the product in their country. Without them, we'd all be importing from Japan at very high prices.

But then suddenly the fandom is split in half. Two people who enjoy the same story or game, will argue, scoff, and put each other down for choosing something different.

[Victator Supreme]

Yes I'm sure there are countless people out there from France, Italy, China, South America etc. who would also prefer to listen to Dragonball or other anime in the Japanese audio. However like you, a lot of those people are a little more hardcore anime watchers. The stronger populous, the ones who watch anime every so often would rather listen to the anime in there native tounge.

Hearuing something in your own language (provided its done competently) allows one to build a greater connection to the characters and story. I will watch the original version of an animated series I really like if a good dub is not available.

Live action is a bit different. The dubbing always looks very bad and takes you out of the story. But I can't see any reason to not listen to a well done dub in your native language.

Finally I just do not like to read movies/tv shows.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

You're exactly right, there isn't a large enough market of people who prefer subtitles to go with that alone. So yes it's about profit, for both the foreign distributer and the creators of the original product. But with that added version, with all it's changed dialog, music, and story elements, comes the original. Whether or not one enjoys watching a foreign product through spoken translation or written translation is irrelevant, the dubs serve a very important purpose. A spoken English version opens the product up to a much wider audience and the distributors can now afford to release the product in their country. Without them, we'd all be importing from Japan at very high prices.

But then suddenly the fandom is split in half. Two people who enjoy the same story or game, will argue, scoff, and put each other down for choosing something different.

Yea but you cant stop the divide, there will always be to opinions to everything. Dimps vs Spike, Playstation vs Xbox, Mac vs PC and Subs vs Dubs. You can't stop that from happening you just have to hope people just start respecting each others preferences and the freedom of choice.

I can't see why that kid would complain about the inclusion of the Japanese voices In BlazBlue. He was just being annoying, you dont have to use it but its good to know you have choices. Just like you dont have to watch the Dubs(or subs) but its nice to know the option for both is there.

[VegettoEX]

Finally I just do not like to read movies/tv shows.

I'm shocked it took this long for this particular comment to show up.

Anyone else wanna tackle it?

[Son Wukong]

But dub companies like Funimation have to go and include such a meaningless line to the dialogue because he's THE bad boy of the show and can't have a sentimental moment for someone else but his own family, especially not his rival!

Such phraseology shows a bit of a misunderstanding of current standards. FUNimation doesn't do those sorts of things anymore, and neither do the dubs produced by other companies, sans those like 4Kids trying to sell a toy.

They didn't went out of there way not to include it in their newly remastered set. But I guess you're right *sarcasm on* current company standars have evolved more ala ''Hollywood'' trailer Evangelion *sarcasm off*.

[JulieYBM]

But dub companies like Funimation have to go and include such a meaningless line to the dialogue because he's THE bad boy of the show and can't have a sentimental moment for someone else but his own family, especially not his rival!

Such phraseology shows a bit of a misunderstanding of current standards. FUNimation doesn't do those sorts of things anymore, and neither do the dubs produced by other companies, sans those like 4Kids trying to sell a toy.

They didn't went out of there way not to include it in their newly remastered set. But I guess you're right *sarcasm on* current company standars have evolved more ala ''Hollywood'' trailer Evangelion *sarcasm off*.

I'm inclined to believe they did anything but take their current tracks and through them at their mixers to make the new track with the JPN score.

[Chrono Trigger]

It all just comes back to, "OK, this is how it was originally created, so that's the way I'd like to see it."

I understand and respect this completely but I just don't see how you can disregard a dub all together without even checking it out. I know it's extremely rare but sometimes a dub can be just as good if not better than the original. Just look at shows like Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, and Death Note. You could really miss out on a good dub just because you're so dead set on seeing as it was supposedly meant to be seen. (No offense)

[Darknat]

Live action is a bit different. The dubbing always looks very bad and takes you out of the story. But I can't see any reason to not listen to a well done dub in your native language.

Finally I just do not like to read movies/tv shows.

That's not really true, there are very good dubs of movies, at least in Spain. Yet again, I do prefer the original versions of them.

What always bugged me about movies was people tend to say that someone is a good actor and they don't even know how he's voice sounds, so they haven't really seen him acting. This goes for anime as well, you hear a character talking in the original and in the dub and the acting is so different.

About the "I just do not like to read movies/tv shows"....

Well... I don't really want to go into that... but... I would just say that reading shouldn't be something you feel difficult whereas you are reading a book, or some subtitles.

Also reading subtitles is by far the simplest way of reading something. You are just reading the dialogue.

[Rocketman]

I just like the English voices better. Any vitriol I hurl against the Japanese version is just to piss off the extremist weeaboos who hounded me to repent mine evil dub-watching ways and convert to the One True Faith.

[VegettoEX]

Just look at shows like Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, and Death Note. You could really miss out on a good dub just because you're so dead set on seeing as it was supposedly meant to be seen. (No offense)

Those are all perfectly fine, and yes, I've (of course) checked them out... but I continue to bring it back to whatever the original version is will be the one that I "stick with". The rest (in this case, the dubs) are just novelties at best.

It's kinda like a cover song. The cover may be cool, and may stand on its own merits, but there's an original behind it. That original was made for a reason, has its own history, context, meaning, etc. I may love a cover version, but nothing can replace that original in terms of that history. It's just dripping with substance, and I feel like I have a burning desire to take it back to whatever that first experience was like.

[Victator Supreme]

Live action is a bit different. The dubbing always looks very bad and takes you out of the story. But I can't see any reason to not listen to a well done dub in your native language.

Finally I just do not like to read movies/tv shows.

That's not really true, there are very good dubs of movies, at least in Spain. Yet again, I do prefer the original versions of them.

What always bugged me about movies was people tend to say that someone is a good actor and they don't even know how he's voice sounds, so they haven't really seen him acting. This goes for anime as well, you hear a character talking in the original and in the dub and the acting is so different.

About the "I just do not like to read movies/tv shows"....

Well... I don't really want to go into that... but... I would just say that reading shouldn't be something you feel difficult whereas you are reading a book, or some subtitles.

Also reading subtitles is by far the simplest way of reading something. You are just reading the dialogue.

I enjoy reading books. Books were created for reading. if I'm watching a tv show/movie I want to watch a tv show. If I want to read I read a book/magazine or anything else that was meant to be read. I will switch to subtitles/foreign language track if a dub proves to be really bad.

I have never seen a live action dub that looks good. Its not the voice acting thats an issue. So i will watch live action shows with subtitles.

[B]

But dub companies like Funimation have to go and include such a meaningless line to the dialogue because he's THE bad boy of the show and can't have a sentimental moment for someone else but his own family, especially not his rival!

Such phraseology shows a bit of a misunderstanding of current standards. FUNimation doesn't do those sorts of things anymore, and neither do the dubs produced by other companies, sans those like 4Kids trying to sell a toy.

They didn't went out of there way not to include it in their newly remastered set.

That's a whole 'nother can of worms concerning Dragon Ball, outside of it's dubbing and more into it's reputation. It's not representative of what you're discussing. =/

[The Time Traveller]

Finally I just do not like to read movies/tv shows.

I'm shocked it took this long for this particular comment to show up.

Anyone else wanna tackle it?

Unless a paragraph shows up in the subtitles in one go, it really isn't that hard to watch a movie/show with subtitles.

If you've been speaking English for over 13 years you should find that your brain instantly takes in stuff that's written down clearly. Subtitles are not an effort to read, and it's not like your eyes are fixed on the bottom half of the screen.

Your mature brain absorbs your native language, unless you need people to speak slowly, or take 1 hour to read 1 page of a book.

It all just comes back to, "OK, this is how it was originally created, so that's the way I'd like to see it."

I understand and respect this completely but I just don't see how you can disregard a dub all together without even checking it out. I know it's extremely rare but sometimes a dub can be just as good if not better than the original. Just look at shows like Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, and Death Note. You could really miss out on a good dub just because you're so dead set on seeing as it was supposedly meant to be seen. (No offense)

I'm dead set on watching Dragon Ball Z in Japanese only with English Subtitles, and the reason is that the English voices don't match the characters, the dialogue is dumbed down, names are mispronounced/edited and gaping plot holes are formed.

Other anime dubs I'm fine with, I watch One Piece in English more than I do Japanese, I'm not that much of a fan, but Funimation's dub for One Piece is God compared to Dragon Ball Z.

The best Anime dub I've ever heard is ADV Films dub for Super Dimention Fortress Macross.