Xenophobia: How does it impact the DragonBall fanbase?

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:46 pm

Adamant wrote:Yes, everything intended for, or considered to have a sizable fanbase consisting of people over than 10 is subtitled. Dubs are solely done for children, and solely because of illiteracy or slow reading.
Studio Ghibli, Disney movies, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and similiar material which has fans of all ages get both a dubbed and subtitled release, so everyone can enjoy them. There was a massive outcry towards the recent Ninja Turtles movie getting a dub-only release due to the distributor failing to realize the movie had a large potential audience of nostalgics in their late teens/twenties, none of which would want to watch a dub, and the desicion to dub the recent Rocky TV series (the dog, not the boxer) was unanimously negative (Seriously, what the hell were they thinking? Rocky is absolutely not aimed at an audience too young to read subs).

I'm going to need evidence for this statement. What about shows for older audiences like death note and Gantz? You know shows intended for people 16-24. If dubs were intended for the 10 year old audiences why do dubs for these shows exist?

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:46 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
Olivier Hague wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:What does that say about people like me, the? You know - over 10, literate, but still don't like the idea of reading subs?
Well, where are you from?
U.S.A.

Don`t take it the wrong way but I`ve noticed that many, many people in the USA dont want subs. I believe that that`s because you are not used to it and so that repulses you.

With me its the other way around. Since everything gets subbed in my country except things for kids, I'm not very used to dubs and so they repulse me.
(For example, there is nothing that could repulse me more than going to the cinema in Spain to watch a film with Robert de Niro and find out that his voice has been dubbed over by a spanish actor. This is true, they do that. However, if I was spanish and all I ever heard was that spanish voice with Robert De Niro`s face I wouldn`t want to hear his true voice. This is what happens in USA.)

Overall, and looking at the 2 methods I think that subbing is a far better method:
- It is by far more faithful to the original product;
- People end up reading more than they would otherwise which is good for grammar and spelling;
- People end up being more aware of other languages;
- People end up being more comfortable with people of said language;
- People end up understanding quite a bit of the language just by seeing enough movies and associating the sounds with the translation (the TV was my first english teacher. I learned a lot from it before I had any classes regarding english. Being a kid helps with that because little kids learn easier)

That said, there is nothing wrong with a good dub. But it will never have these advantages.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:50 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:What about shows for older audiences like death note and Gantz? You know shows intended for people 16-24. If dubs were intended for the 10 year old audiences why do dubs for these shows exist?

Simply enough, they don't.

B · Post by B » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:50 pm

I don't see the problem with preferring a well done dub. So they threw a "the" in there to make it all fit, whatever.

Now, preferring the DBZ dub, that... doesn't make sense, outside of OMGNOSTALGIA. Lines are changed by the will of which writer is doing what episode. Personality traits of some characters are altered, downsized, or played up. Lines are thrown in where they need not be. I mean, fuck the voices, anyone notice they're saying the wrong things?

Oh, and because it seems to be some sort of "issue," misanthropy >nationalism.

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece · Post by **Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:54 pm

I've watched this thread go from a somewhat decent conversation about a legitimate question into a rage inducing, strawman littered dick measuring contest.

I am dissapointed.

On topic:

What does it matter if one prefers the dub or the original over the other?

I can see valid arguments on each side of the battle, but what do you guys think?

B · Post by B » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:59 pm

It doesn't matter; I can't fathom why anyone would care about something like that. The only time where it would remotely matter is if two people are talking about something with a dub, and it just so happens that particular dub changed things around. For the most part, DB doesn't have that problem, outside of names.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:00 pm

It all comes down to what people are more used to, I think. Thats the main factor (people in countries that dub more, typically like dubs more and the other way around).

If we remove that factor then the subbing system has the most advantages overall. Artistically the most important factor is that is always truer to the original (at least as long as the subs are well translated).

Of course it will always be a matter of personal preference, but like I said, what people are most used to is what they generally prefer.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:03 pm

B wrote:It doesn't matter; I can't fathom why anyone would care about something like that. The only time where it would remotely matter is if two people are talking about something with a dub, and it just so happens that particular dub changed things around. For the most part, DB doesn't have that problem, outside of names.

Well there's Vegetas back story and reason for gong SSJ being altered. 16 is no longer a robot he just has an "updated neural processor" power level and age inconsistencies and the occasional weird piece of dialogue that can be misconstrued. Not to mention Gero is the head of the Red Ribbon army and Tao is a general.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:03 pm

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:I've watched this thread go from a somewhat decent conversation about a legitimate question into a rage inducing, strawman littered dick measuring contest.

Really?

B · Post by B » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:04 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:I've watched this thread go from a somewhat decent conversation about a legitimate question into a rage inducing, strawman littered dick measuring contest.
Really?

It's more of a name-calling butthurt contest, if anything.

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:06 pm

B wrote:
Olivier Hague wrote:
Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:I've watched this thread go from a somewhat decent conversation about a legitimate question into a rage inducing, strawman littered dick measuring contest.
Really?
It's more of a name-calling butthurt contest, if anything.

Seems to me like the last page and a half has just been people using xenophobia to attack xenophobia.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:07 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:I've watched this thread go from a somewhat decent conversation about a legitimate question into a rage inducing, strawman littered dick measuring contest.
Really?

I'm with Olivier. I don't see it.

Sure, some people aren't exactly backing up their statements or... well... typing properly... but that doesn't mean it's a dick-measuring contest.

Frankly, I'm more enthralled with all of our non-American members putting in their two-cents than anything else. It's pretty fascinating.

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece · Post by **Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:15 pm

Adamant wrote:
SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:What about shows for older audiences like death note and Gantz? You know shows intended for people 16-24. If dubs were intended for the 10 year old audiences why do dubs for these shows exist?
Simply enough, they don't.

But they do...

Dubs exist because they're for the average consumer. The guy that'll flip through the channels and could possibly end up watching that show.

Having a subtitled show might be a bit of a turn off because it's awkward at first, and if anything to market a show you wouldn't want it to be awkward. You'd want it to be somewhat easy to pick up and watch.

Insisting that dubs that aren't done specifically for children (4Kids) are for children is absurd due to their usual timeslot and the fact that they can curse.

VegettoEX wrote:
Olivier Hague wrote:
Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:I've watched this thread go from a somewhat decent conversation about a legitimate question into a rage inducing, strawman littered dick measuring contest.
Really?
I'm with Olivier. I don't see it.

Sure, some people aren't exactly backing up their statements or... well... typing properly... but that doesn't mean it's a dick-measuring contest.

Frankly, I'm more enthralled with all of our non-American members putting in their two-cents than anything else. It's pretty fascinating.

Oopsies on my part. I skimmed the newest bits of the thread and read what I thought was some super raging, but was a sarcastic strawman.

My bad, I over reacted.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:16 pm

Erm... just popping in to reiterate...

Not everyone on this forum is from the United States o' America. Just sayin'. They might not necessarily be talking about your products.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:20 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:The game gets released in Japan, and the character is now called "EVILMAN". Because he's American. And apparently evil. And a man. So it "fits".

If I was introduced to him as EVILMAN at a young age and only knew him as that, I'd probably think it suits him too. As silly as that is. But I guess that was my point; it all depends on perspective.

'EVILMAN' is a pretty cool name for a bad guy.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:28 pm

Probably just restating what EX just said, but yeah, you're not talking to an American about American releases here.

So yeah, quick and probably very pointless run-through of your post:

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote: But they do...

No, they don't.

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:Dubs exist because they're for the average consumer.

No, dubs are for children under 10.

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:The guy that'll flip through the channels and could possibly end up watching that show.

Having a subtitled show might be a bit of a turn off because it's awkward at first, and if anything to market a show you wouldn't want it to be awkward. You'd want it to be somewhat easy to pick up and watch.

Everything intended for older audiences is subtitled. If it was dubbed, the guy would say "oh, a children's cartoon" and switch the channel in a second.

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:Insisting that dubs that aren't done specifically for children (4Kids) are for children is absurd

All dubs are done specifically for children.

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:due to their usual timeslot

Weekend morning, right after school ends, and just before kids' bedtime.

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:and the fact that they can curse.

Cursing is not uncommon on material viewed by younger audiences.

There, that was pointless.

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:30 pm

VegettoEX wrote: I'm with Olivier. I don't see it.

Sure, some people aren't exactly backing up their statements or... well... typing properly... but that doesn't mean it's a dick-measuring contest.

Frankly, I'm more enthralled with all of our non-American members putting in their two-cents than anything else. It's pretty fascinating.

I didn't realize this site was so diverse. Its really cool!
Though this subs vs dubs thing isn't going to get anywhere...its all personal preference

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:31 pm

Bussani wrote:If I was introduced to him as EVILMAN at a young age and only knew him as that, I'd probably think it suits him too. As silly as that is.

Well, I was mostly talking about the change, i.e. comparing the original name and the changed one. Oh, and wondering "why did they even bother?"

I, for one, heard of the "Akuma" name only shortly before finding out about the original "Gôki". I can't say I was appalled by the name "Akuma" at first. But when I saw that it wasn't the original name... Well, there weren't any facepalm.jpg back then, but really...

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:38 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
Bussani wrote:If I was introduced to him as EVILMAN at a young age and only knew him as that, I'd probably think it suits him too. As silly as that is.
Well, I was mostly talking about the change, i.e. comparing the original name and the changed one. Oh, and wondering "why did they even bother?"

I, for one, heard of the "Akuma" name only shortly before finding out about the original "Gôki". I can't say I was appalled by the name "Akuma" at first. But when I saw that it wasn't the original name... Well, there weren't any facepalm.jpg back then, but really...

Oh, I don't disagree. Replacing one Japanese name with 'Akuma' of all things does strike me as extremely pointless. And kind of amusing.

I don't mean to go off track, but in the dub of Gash Bell they change Tio's name to Tia. I understand the reason for changing Gash (hopefully I don't have to explain it to anyone else), but Tio/Tia seems so unnecessary. Still, fans of the English version get pissy if you call her Tio, which makes me facepalm.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:45 pm

The Time Traveller wrote: The best Anime dub I've ever heard is ADV Films dub for Super Dimention Fortress Macross.

Now that is one series I can't watch, due to me being a stubborn 80s' boy who can't call the main character anything other than Rick Hunter.

And with the mentioning of Live action, I've talked in the past to some Godzilla fans who've said that while they have to watch the Heisei and Milennium eras in Japanese and subbed, they can only watch the Showa series dubbed in English because it's funny.

I don't mean to go off track, but in the dub of Gash Bell they change Tio's name to Tia. I understand the reason for changing Gash (hopefully I don't have to explain it to anyone else), but Tio/Tia seems so unnecessary. Still, fans of the English version get pissy if you call her Tio, which makes me facepalm.

Likely to make it more feminine and not get confused with someone's uncle.