An honest question

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Wojak]

A.) It's English, and I want to hear things in my own language.

So are subtitles.

And I already tackled this in another thread, unless you don't speak English or are illiterate, or are under 15, your mind absorbs words that appear in front of you automatically, obviously not if it's an entire paragraph.

I know you didn't say anything against subtitles, and I'm not disregarding your other reasons, but I'm just trying to get this out there.

As for acting, the Japanese seiyuu convey things well with their voices, when you have subtitles, you can fix the context together rather well.

I get what you are saying, but remember that it's a clear difference between reading and hearing, and it stimulates the enjoyment of the show differently.
And ultimately, people are different. It has nothing to do with illiteracy or whatever reason.
Also, there is the thing with the voice actors, and although them not being good, they sound more natural to your own language, especially if you speak English.
You can't come and say how "it should be". As long as you aren't an other person, you can't understand why they prefer to listen to their own language.

I'm very happy that I read the manga instead, 'cause of that noone will have a problem with that.

And frankly, I don't understand why people watch the anime at all. It's a waste of time and if I need music and VA's, I have enough of it in my imagination as I flip the pages of the manga.
Jeez, one chapter becomes, like 30 minutes of the show.
If you don't read the manga, you are illiterate. If you watch the show with subtitles, you have to be just watching the pictures, 'cause there's NO WAY that you can READ or UNDERSTAND if you don't use SUBTITLES!
Do you see how silly it sounds? Yep, thought so.

[NeptuneKai]

I get what you are saying, but remember that it's a clear difference between reading and hearing, and it stimulates the enjoyment of the show differently.
And ultimately, people are different. It has nothing to do with illiteracy or whatever reason.
Also, there is the thing with the voice actors, and although them not being good, they sound more natural to your own language, especially if you speak English.
You can't come and say how "it should be". As long as you aren't an other person, you can't understand why they prefer to listen to their own language.

I'm very happy that I read the manga instead, 'cause of that noone will have a problem with that.

And frankly, I don't understand why people watch the anime at all. It's a waste of time and if I need music and VA's, I have enough of it in my imagination as I flip the pages of the manga.
Jeez, one chapter becomes, like 30 minutes of the show.
If you don't read the manga, you are illiterate. If you watch the show with subtitles, you have to be just watching the pictures, 'cause there's NO WAY that you can READ or UNDERSTAND if you don't use SUBTITLES!
Do you see how silly it sounds? Yep, thought so.

Please don't get sarcastic, although emotion is hard to pin point through text you seemed a little hostile here. I know this may have set you in a defensive state but all it takes is somebody else to get offended by your words to cause an unrelated debate to break out. I'd like to try and have this thread be very calm and open.

[NeptuneKai]

Honestly ideally speaking, this really SHOULDN'T be a "touchy" subject to the point of eggshell walking for just about anyone... I mean at the end of the day, this is just a cartoon we're talking about here, not Sunni/Shiite relations.

But unfortunately, the reality of the general way in which the internet seems to make most people much more hypersensitive about trivial topics says differently; you are right ultimately and your point is well taken.

I fully agree with you on all terms but as you mentioned idealism and reality are two very separate entities.

[Anonymous Friend]

And I already tackled this in another thread, unless you don't speak English or are illiterate, or are under 15, your mind absorbs words that appear in front of you automatically, obviously not if it's an entire paragraph.

First, I like to have the closed captioned on when I watch TV and movies. But bI don't like being tied to reading dialog. Sometimes I want to eat while I watch something. Sometimes I like to think about a point in the scene. Whatever. I don't like being tied to the screen having to read dialog. I really like dialog but there have been times when something was happening on screen and I was paying more attention to that and missed soem things that was said. After a bit I stopped rewinding and just accepted that those lines were missed. It has nothing to do with reading comprehension or anything.

As for the topic, I stick with the dub because I like hearing stuff in my language. Plus it helps that I don't hate the voices, or the script, or the stupid jokes and whatnot.

And a lot of it is due to the fact that I spent a good five years watching the entire series in that way. It left an impression on me. Plus, I like the "Hardcore!!! let's beat the crap out of each other with hand lazers of death!!!" I just wish that I could find a show that was like that.

The FUNi version of Dragonball was enjoyable. It was all I'ld known before searching for other fans on the internet that i found out that I was wrong and that it is not enjoyable. Go figure.

To be honest, the FUNi Dragonball is enjoyable. They have the millions upon millions to prove it. Plus the fact that it was on the air for so long. and their still releasing it. There's nothing wrong with it. It just happens that the original is considered "better".

I've switched from English to Japanese to back and forth when watching all of my anime on DVD. The japanese voice acting does sound more natural than the english but I think that they are still acting and that may be as different from how they naturally speak as english voice acting and our natural speech. But then again I'm not a natural japanese speaking individual and may be completely wrong.

[NeptuneKai]

To be honest, the FUNi Dragonball is enjoyable. They have the millions upon millions to prove it. Plus the fact that it was on the air for so long. and their still releasing it. There's nothing wrong with it. It just happens that the original is considered "better".

I never doubted people found it enjoyable, I was just wondering why people enjoyed it. Luckily you answered that in the rest of your post so thank you.

[Dr. Casey]

The japanese voice acting does sound more natural than the english but I think that they are still acting and that may be as different from how they naturally speak as english voice acting and our natural speech. But then again I'm not a natural japanese speaking individual and may be completely wrong.

From what I've heard, Japanese voice acting is similar to (good) English acting. It's not identical to actual speech - a greater effort is made to speak clearly, use correct prounciation and enunciation, and in general is a bit more proper and refined than regular conversation - but it does sound natural. I've also heard that anime or television in general isn't a good source for picking up spoken language for that reason, because the characters speak more properly and formally than real people do. Dunno how much truth there is to that.

[Kendamu]

The japanese voice acting does sound more natural than the english but I think that they are still acting and that may be as different from how they naturally speak as english voice acting and our natural speech. But then again I'm not a natural japanese speaking individual and may be completely wrong.

From what I've heard, Japanese voice acting is similar to (good) English acting. It's not identical to actual speech - a greater effort is made to speak clearly, use correct prounciation and enunciation, and in general is a bit more proper and refined than regular conversation - but it does sound natural. I've also heard that anime or television in general isn't a good source for picking up spoken language for that reason, because the characters speak more properly and formally than real people do. Dunno how much truth there is to that.

Well, I can tell you that people in Dragonball may not all speak standard proper Japanese, but they do annunciate better and sometimes speak a hair more slowly than actual Japanese people I've spoken Japanese with. To a point, Dragonball can be good for refining your listening skills. However, to me it definitely doesn't sound anything like real conversation.

[Rory]

And frankly, I don't understand why people watch the anime at all. It's a waste of time and if I need music and VA's, I have enough of it in my imagination as I flip the pages of the manga.
Jeez, one chapter becomes, like 30 minutes of the show.
If you don't read the manga, you are illiterate. If you watch the show with subtitles, you have to be just watching the pictures, 'cause there's NO WAY that you can READ or UNDERSTAND if you don't use SUBTITLES!
Do you see how silly it sounds? Yep, thought so.

That's quite a bold statement. Thanks for letting us know it was complete your opinion. If I could state mine, I'd say I agree to some level, that the manga is superior, but some scenes are simply better/more effective in the anime. Umne no Hi being played while Gohan transforms for example, is a brilliant scene, and is much more of an impact than Gohan screaming and being pissed off for a page. Don't get me wrong, but key scenes, when placed with effective music, and great animation (not to mention fantastic voice acting), is simply superior to the original manga.
Again, that's my opinion, and yes, there's filler, and " HUR HUR 5 MINUTES BEFORE NAMEK EXPLODES!!", but nothing's perfect, and DVDs have that lovely "skip" feature these days. It's an alternative, don't just dismiss it like some snotty elitist.

[Gabool The Wild]

For me, I prefer the Japanese with subtitles.
I do still Love the FUNimation dub, though.
I'm 15, I GREW UP watching the dub.
I spent years as a little kid watching it on Toonami, so even though I now prefer the Japanese, I will instantly identify with the dub simply due to the fact that it's what I'm used to.
I've gotten used to hearing those voices after years, I've gotten used to hearing the dub music after years, I've gotten used to all aspects of the dub, and it also just reminds me of fond memories I have.

Is the script bad?
Fuck yes.

Are the jokes horrible?
Jesus Fucking Christ, yes.

Are there many inconsistencies?
More than we could probably count.

Do I still Love the dub?
Hell yeah.

It's just kind of like how the first character you usually see (or in my case, at least) ends up your favorite.
The first character I ever saw was Freeza, and he's still my favorite to this day.
The dub was the first version of the show I ever saw, and while it's no longer my favorite version (like Freeza is still my favorite character), it still holds a dear place in my heart.

I can understand why people don't like the dub.
If I were older and would have gotten into the Japanese first, seen it first, or even never have watched Toonami in the first place (although I probably wouldn't be a Dragon Ball fan then) I know I probably wouldn't like the dub either.
Some things, no matter how shitty, just have certain sentimental value.

[Metalwario64]

C.) Minor plot details aside, DBZ is a show about people fighting. As long as Funi doesn't change what's presented in the animation, DBZ is the same. I would say the average (read: Non-hardcore) viewer cares less whether 16 human or not as much as how awesome it looks when 18 breaks Vegetas arm. Even as much as I love DBZ and the characters, I'm not under the illusion that the shows plots are anything but paper thin.

I just find it odd that same fanbase will have issues if Naruto didn't utter the exact same phrase as he did in the Japanese version or they will complain if Luffy doesn't use the word "nakama" instead of friend. It just seems many dub fans give DBZ a free pass due to the nostalgia involved.

It's got nothing to do with a "free pass." Most fans of the dub are not "nippon-o-philes." In fact, most "casual" Z fans I know don't even like most other animes, let alone the Japanese versions.

I hate having random Japanese words left untranslated in random dubs and subs to make the "OMG NIPPONESE IS the KAWAII DESU NE!!!!!!!!11!" people feel better about themselves. This is why I despise fan-subs.

I want that out of my animes!

[Freeza Heika]

C.) Minor plot details aside, DBZ is a show about people fighting. As long as Funi doesn't change what's presented in the animation, DBZ is the same. I would say the average (read: Non-hardcore) viewer cares less whether 16 human or not as much as how awesome it looks when 18 breaks Vegetas arm. Even as much as I love DBZ and the characters, I'm not under the illusion that the shows plots are anything but paper thin.

I just find it odd that same fanbase will have issues if Naruto didn't utter the exact same phrase as he did in the Japanese version or they will complain if Luffy doesn't use the word "nakama" instead of friend. It just seems many dub fans give DBZ a free pass due to the nostalgia involved.

It's got nothing to do with a "free pass." Thing is, I am not a "nippon-o-phile"

I hate having random Japanese words left untranslated in random dubs and subs to make the "OMG NIPPONESE IS the KAWAII DESU NE!!!!!!!!11!" people feel better about themselves. This is why I despise fan-subs.

I want that out of my animes!

As far a I'm concerned, the only time a word with a possible translation shouldn't be translated is if it is a both a Japanese word and propernoun. This occurs a lot in things like Naruto and Bleach.

[Metalwario64]

The only time I find it acceptable is for attack names.

[MCDaveG]

Don't take it as some offence against USA or something, but why everything american made on field of animated movies and series is such a crap? I'm talking about the Japanese or Japanese-american collabos and I'm not talking about Afro-samurai etc. but about series and movies which are age-free, I don't know much about US rating, because there is rating even for animated violence or what.......
I really enjoyed WB's Batman TAS, awesome, then some oldschools like Thundercats, Silverhawks and then...... Japanese-American collabo, animated Megaman, my favourite character since childhood, WTF!!!! That lines and everything??? That was show for 5 year old kids god damn it, and then it started, first fucked up Dragon Ball, Yu-Gi-Oh, even that non-dangerous thing like Digimon??? I don't understand it, there are tones of retush, photo montage and really stupid dialogs.......
And there are angry parents of kids, because Pikachu used thunderbolt and zapped some green animal...... Iiiiii, don't get it.
It's even worse, because the same trend started at the beginning of 2000 in Europe too, and children are going soft and dumb.

[Wojak]

And frankly, I don't understand why people watch the anime at all. It's a waste of time and if I need music and VA's, I have enough of it in my imagination as I flip the pages of the manga.
Jeez, one chapter becomes, like 30 minutes of the show.
If you don't read the manga, you are illiterate. If you watch the show with subtitles, you have to be just watching the pictures, 'cause there's NO WAY that you can READ or UNDERSTAND if you don't use SUBTITLES!
Do you see how silly it sounds? Yep, thought so.

That's quite a bold statement. Thanks for letting us know it was complete your opinion. If I could state mine, I'd say I agree to some level, that the manga is superior, but some scenes are simply better/more effective in the anime. Umne no Hi being played while Gohan transforms for example, is a brilliant scene, and is much more of an impact than Gohan screaming and being pissed off for a page. Don't get me wrong, but key scenes, when placed with effective music, and great animation (not to mention fantastic voice acting), is simply superior to the original manga.
Again, that's my opinion, and yes, there's filler, and " HUR HUR 5 MINUTES BEFORE NAMEK EXPLODES!!", but nothing's perfect, and DVDs have that lovely "skip" feature these days. It's an alternative, don't just dismiss it like some snotty elitist.

I was being sarcastic. I don't hate the anime nor dislike it. I really like some of the filler, as an example.
And even if I dismissed it, it's within my right to do so and doesn't make me an elitist. It may be just so that I dislike cartoons and anime.

BUT, in the end, I was sarcastic, which you would know if you read NeptuneKai's response to my post (which was a couple of posts above yours):

Please don't get sarcastic, although emotion is hard to pin point through text you seemed a little hostile here. I know this may have set you in a defensive state but all it takes is somebody else to get offended by your words to cause an unrelated debate to break out. I'd like to try and have this thread be very calm and open.

Regarding the dub, I like Vegeta's first, raspy voice, y'know, where he sounds like all evil and lurky. I am really not a fan of the voice they gave him later in the redub where it was made darker and more agressive.

[jjgp1112]

I watch the dub because it's english, the VA's are great, and the music is awesome. And because I've accepted it for what it is. And I enjoy it.

Although I've recently found myself switching to the Japanese version during any scene in the Season 3 dub involving Goku and Frieza before Goku went Super Saiyan (that's the point where Sean Schemmel first started getting decent).

C.) Minor plot details aside, DBZ is a show about people fighting. As long as Funi doesn't change what's presented in the animation, DBZ is the same. I would say the average (read: Non-hardcore) viewer cares less whether 16 human or not as much as how awesome it looks when 18 breaks Vegetas arm. Even as much as I love DBZ and the characters, I'm not under the illusion that the shows plots are anything but paper thin.

And this, too.

[Adamant]

Japanese-American collabo, animated Megaman, my favourite character since childhood, WTF!!!!

To be fair, both the American and Japanese Mega Man cartoons were pretty damn awful.

(also, SatAM Sonic is a much better series than Sonic X, the Americans can do those game adaptions right at times)

[B]

However, I tried watching a dub episode (with Japanese music track) to see if maybe I could enjoy the dub more without the casio soundtrack.

Unfortunately, I couldn't last through one episode.

Shocking. I find the dub much more engaging with the Japanese score. Ignoring the fact it's just better music, it's arranged in a way that it doesn't feel like background noise and actually stirs up some amount of emotion inside of you.

To answer the initial topic, I don't dismiss the dub because their changes make the show worse, I think less of it simply due to there being changes. Even their changes that actually make some amount of sense, like Cell having a single nucleus that will keep him from dying, I don't acknowledge it because of the simple fact that that's not what he saaaa~id.

My enjoyment of the dub probably stems from nostalgia, but I like to think I'm not so dense I'm not aware I'm watching shit. Also,

And frankly, I don't understand why people watch the anime at all. It's a waste of time and if I need music and VA's, I have enough of it in my imagination as I flip the pages of the manga.
Jeez, one chapter becomes, like 30 minutes of the show.

This, a thousand times. When it's all said and done, no matter what lanugage you're watching it in, Dragon Ball Z is stretched thinly apart to ridiculous proportions and has enough cannon fodder episodes to make a whoel 'nother series. I kind of shake my head in shame whenever I see heated discussions over the integrity of what was basically an attempt to cash checks; even more so when I find myself in them. Of course, this can't be helped with it running alongside the manga. The anime versions of One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, and many others all went down the same route eventually.

[jjgp1112]

However, I tried watching a dub episode (with Japanese music track) to see if maybe I could enjoy the dub more without the casio soundtrack.

Unfortunately, I couldn't last through one episode.

Shocking. I find the dub much more engaging with the Japanese score. Ignoring the fact it's just better music, it's arranged in a way that it doesn't feel like background noise and actually stirs up some amount of emotion inside of you.

Wow, I finally found someone who agrees with me on that.

[Super Sonic]

Japanese-American collabo, animated Megaman, my favourite character since childhood, WTF!!!!

To be fair, both the American and Japanese Mega Man cartoons were pretty damn awful.

Still got to admit, the voice acting in the American Mega Man cartoon is much better than the voice acting in Mega Man 8.

With DB, I have to say, I alternate depending ont the ep, though haven't watched any in months. For all its flaws, the dub is what introduced me to the series, and that's how I got into it, so can't hate too much. Besides, like others have noticed, Speed Racer's dub is kinda worse than DB's depending on how you look at it, but a lot of people say they can't watch that show in Japanese at all. (Besides, it's dub did better here than the original did in Japan).