Question To People Who Prefer The Original Japanese Version

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:59 pm

Except, russ869, those behind DragonBall Z Abridged are all big fans of the series, and Kaiser of the original Japanese. Their intent isn't to redicule DragonBall, but make a shortened and entertaining version that can appeal to all spectrums of the fanbase.

You might not perceive it that way, but I think that is their aim.

cRookie_Monster · Post by **cRookie_Monster** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:15 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
cRookie_Monster wrote:I'm guessing Japanese fans would like something they can appreciate in their own language....and to them the English dub didn't fill that need.
You hardly need to understand the language of a show to be entertained. Great acting and music is universal.

Agreed and I've enjoyed many subbed movies\shows, but it's still nice to have an English version that is good. That I'm guessing is the primary reason a fan of the original Japanese show would check out a dub. It would be for me...just common sense.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:18 pm

cRookie_Monster wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
cRookie_Monster wrote:I'm guessing Japanese fans would like something they can appreciate in their own language....and to them the English dub didn't fill that need.
You hardly need to understand the language of a show to be entertained. Great acting and music is universal.
Agreed and I've enjoyed many subbed movies\shows, but it's still nice to have an English version that is good. That I'm guessing is the primary reason a fan of the original Japanese show would check out a dub. It would be for me...just common sense.

In my case I began with the dub and only recently moved to the original Japanese version because that version really wasn't up to FUNimation current standards for their other titles. I would appreciate most probably watch an accurate and well done dub as I do for all other FUNimation properties but as it is I do have an attatchment to the original Japanese version now, too.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:53 pm

I'm gonna say it again.

Kai is the PERFECT opportunity for FUNi to do an ACCURATE Dub with the Pool of Actors they have now.
I REALLY hope they get it.

The Already "Director's Cut" feel of Kai facilitates a new dub PERFECTLY.

They just market it as such.

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:20 pm

JulieYBM wrote:You hardly need to understand the language of a show to be entertained. Great acting and music is universal.

Yeah, but it was produced in Japan for a Japanese audience. Localizations necessarily introduce losses in translation, differences in acting, etc. So there is no incentive for them to experience it in any other language, other than out of curiosity.

russ869 · Post by **russ869** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:21 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Except, russ869, those behind DragonBall Z Abridged are all big fans of the series, and Kaiser of the original Japanese. Their intent isn't to redicule DragonBall, but make a shortened and entertaining version that can appeal to all spectrums of the fanbase.

You might not perceive it that way, but I think that is their aim.

Maybe that is their intent, but it's not really what happens. Many people who watch these "abridged series" have little if any of original show and from my experience exposure to the franchise through an "abridged series" does NOT increase people interest in the original. If anything it actually makes it less likely they'll become fans of the original manga/anime because perhaps they go watch it and then are disappointed when it isn't nearly as funny as their favorite internet humor.

It's hard enough trying to convince my friends that Dragonball is an interesting show that they might actually like to watch without "OVER 9000!!" or "Ghost Nappa" going through their heads every time I mention it.

Stridex · Post by **Stridex** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:42 pm

Mike pointing out Movies 1-3 original dub is very, very important.

It's what made me into an anime fan.

I HATED Dragonball Z on Cartoon Network. Mocked the hell out of my younger brother for watching the crap. It wasn't until I saw part of the second movie (with the original soundtrack and a decent translation) that I realized I was, in fact, reacting to a censored and inaccurate product.

As such, I continue to despise dubs, even better ones, as I find the changes made are misrepresentations that impact the ability of properties to find fans... and give fans of the original property a bunch of bullshit preconceptions they are forced to regularly deal with.

Further, I dislike dubs because their fanbase tends to be immature and xenophobic (if not racist). I'm not saying this in relationship towards people on this forum, or even people on "forums" in general. I'm from the Midwest and have heard a lot of mean, bigoted assholes who will tell me about loving Jap cartoons-- all the while mocking the "slant-eyed motherfuckers". I've not heard a whole lot of sub fans talk like that.

So, yeah. No dubbing, thanks.

cRookie_Monster · Post by **cRookie_Monster** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:44 pm

Stridex wrote:Mike pointing out Movies 1-3 original dub is very, very important.

It's what made me into an anime fan.

I HATED Dragonball Z on Cartoon Network. Mocked the hell out of my younger brother for watching the crap. It wasn't until I saw part of the second movie (with the original soundtrack and a decent translation) that I realized I was, in fact, reacting to a censored and inaccurate product.

As such, I continue to despise dubs, even better ones, as I find the changes made are misrepresentations that impact the ability of properties to find fans... and give fans of the original property a bunch of bullshit preconceptions they are forced to regularly deal with.

Further, I dislike dubs because their fanbase tends to be immature and xenophobic (if not racist). I'm not saying this in relationship towards people on this forum, or even people on "forums" in general. I'm from the Midwest and have heard a lot of mean, bigoted assholes who will tell me about loving Jap cartoons-- all the while mocking the "slant-eyed motherfuckers". I've not heard a whole lot of sub fans talk like that.

So, yeah. No dubbing, thanks.

Did you just call all dub fans racist?

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:45 pm

Stridex wrote:
Further, I dislike dubs because their fanbase tends to be immature and xenophobic (if not racist). I'm not saying this in relationship towards people on this forum, or even people on "forums" in general. I'm from the Midwest and have heard a lot of mean, bigoted assholes who will tell me about loving Jap cartoons-- all the while mocking the "slant-eyed motherfuckers". I've not heard a whole lot of sub fans talk like that.

So, yeah. No dubbing, thanks.

Well, it is the midwest. You need to go to an area that has a lower hick population.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:47 pm

cRookie_Monster wrote:
Stridex wrote:Mike pointing out Movies 1-3 original dub is very, very important.

It's what made me into an anime fan.

I HATED Dragonball Z on Cartoon Network. Mocked the hell out of my younger brother for watching the crap. It wasn't until I saw part of the second movie (with the original soundtrack and a decent translation) that I realized I was, in fact, reacting to a censored and inaccurate product.

As such, I continue to despise dubs, even better ones, as I find the changes made are misrepresentations that impact the ability of properties to find fans... and give fans of the original property a bunch of bullshit preconceptions they are forced to regularly deal with.

Further, I dislike dubs because their fanbase tends to be immature and xenophobic (if not racist). I'm not saying this in relationship towards people on this forum, or even people on "forums" in general. I'm from the Midwest and have heard a lot of mean, bigoted assholes who will tell me about loving Jap cartoons-- all the while mocking the "slant-eyed motherfuckers". I've not heard a whole lot of sub fans talk like that.

So, yeah. No dubbing, thanks.
Did you just call all dub fans racist?

No. He even pointed out a couple examples of times he hasn't ran into racists dub fans. I bolded that part for you.

Also, the whole "tends to" thing means that there's a lot of people that way, but certainly not all of them.

Are you trying to pick a fight or something?

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:03 pm

Stridex wrote:Mike pointing out Movies 1-3 original dub is very, very important.

It's what made me into an anime fan.

I HATED Dragonball Z on Cartoon Network. Mocked the hell out of my younger brother for watching the crap. It wasn't until I saw part of the second movie (with the original soundtrack and a decent translation) that I realized I was, in fact, reacting to a censored and inaccurate product.

As such, I continue to despise dubs, even better ones, as I find the changes made are misrepresentations that impact the ability of properties to find fans... and give fans of the original property a bunch of bullshit preconceptions they are forced to regularly deal with.

Further, I dislike dubs because their fanbase tends to be immature and xenophobic (if not racist). I'm not saying this in relationship towards people on this forum, or even people on "forums" in general. I'm from the Midwest and have heard a lot of mean, bigoted assholes who will tell me about loving Jap cartoons-- all the while mocking the "slant-eyed motherfuckers". I've not heard a whole lot of sub fans talk like that.

So, yeah. No dubbing, thanks.

Most dubs these days--within the power of the flap--work very hard to be faithful representations of the original product. I think your perception of most 'dub fanbases' is pretty innacurate, at least in my experience. Save for the YouTube crowd and the wrong forums it's not entirely hard to find mature discussion on the subject of dubs and subs. Equally and admittedly, the idea of "watching it subtitled and in the original Japanese makes me cooler" is just as immature as any dub fan can be.

The Japanese version is no doubt the universal and master material but a good dub can be just as rewarding. Call me biased, but I think it's plain wrong to dispise all dubs when so many of the accurate and well-acted ones (i.e. non-DB FUNi dubs of their top properties) actually attract fans. I know I've gotten my mom invested in shows like One Piece, Naruto, Claymore, and Darker than Black through their dubs. But alas...

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:03 pm

Kendamu wrote:
cRookie_Monster wrote:Did you just call all dub fans racist?
No. He even pointed out a couple examples of times he hasn't ran into racists dub fans. I bolded that part for you.

Are you trying to pick a fight or something?

I'd say so, simply because most of us don't care for the dub(of DBZ) or the dub's music. If that isn't his intent then I apologize.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:37 pm

Stridex wrote:I've not heard a whole lot of sub fans talk like that.

Heard of the "Wapanese"?

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:42 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Stridex wrote:I've not heard a whole lot of sub fans talk like that.
Heard of the "Wapanese"?

I actually more often hear "weeaboo" than "Wapanese."

obiwan23s · Post by **obiwan23s** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:36 pm

Great topic, actually.

The English dub is relevant to me for quite a few reasons despite the fact that I prefer the original version. I first got into Dragon Ball when the Ocean dub was in syndication, before it aired on CN if I recall correctly. For about three years, you'd watch up until Goku arrived on Namek and come home from school the next day expecting to see him kick some more Ginyu Force ass only to have the series start over with Raditz.

At this point, most of us with net access went online to see what was going on with DBZ and if new episodes would ever come out. During that third year, we found out that FUNimation was going to be releasing new episodes within a few months. But by that time, many of us had obtained fansubs and viewed the series to completion, deciding to skip the dub altogether.

As the dub continued to come out, it became obvious that the show was being dumbed down to suit a younger audience. In fact, it was pretty much an "American" dub rather than an English dub of the same content. The English dub matters to me for the same reasons Herms state. It is grossly incorrect and has caused a number of false perceptions about DBZ to circulate the fandom. And it continues to do so to this day.

Another fact that bothers me is this hard line stance support of the dub's music which has recently flared up because of its potential exclusion from the Dragon Box releases. While people have the right to like that musical track if they so choose, they need to realize that that music is not Dragon Ball Z. It's something a company altered from DBZ to make it sell better. And kudos to FUNimation, because it helped but money in their pockets for life. But as far as this fan is concerned, that came at the cost of cheating the show out of its own potential. DBZ would've been just as popular had the fake music and "nine year old born every day" script never came into existence.

Like Mike pointed out, the first three movies dubbed by Ocean represent what we as DBZ fans never received: a dub that doesn't point and laugh at us like Nelson on the Simpsons. A dub that doesn't resemble a modern day Myspace cam whore saying "Look at me! (and this cool picture I took using my bathroom mirror!)" As I've said before, if DBZ had a faithful dub for the whole series as it was done in those three movies, we wouldn't be discussing things in this thread. It's that simple.

If a DBZ dub at the same quality and production values as the first three movies were done for the whole series, I'd probably watch DBZ dubbed and enjoy it more than the original version. But thanks to FUNimation, the DBZ dub is a joke and always will be... unless they fix it.

snaku · Post by **snaku** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:25 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Most dubs these days--within the power of the flap--work very hard to be faithful representations of the original product. I think your perception of most 'dub fanbases' is pretty innacurate, at least in my experience. Save for the YouTube crowd and the wrong forums it's not entirely hard to find mature discussion on the subject of dubs and subs. Equally and admittedly, the idea of "watching it subtitled and in the original Japanese makes me cooler" is just as immature as any dub fan can be.

The Japanese version is no doubt the universal and master material but a good dub can be just as rewarding. Call me biased, but I think it's plain wrong to dispise all dubs when so many of the accurate and well-acted ones (i.e. non-DB FUNi dubs of their top properties) actually attract fans. I know I've gotten my mom invested in shows like One Piece, Naruto, Claymore, and Darker than Black through their dubs. But alas...

Heck, I find a few English dubs to be better acted, and more appropriate for some shows. Cowboy Bebop and The Big O come to mind immediately.

Post by **Herms** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:33 pm

Rocketman wrote:Heard of the "Wapanese"?

I've never heard the term "Wapanese" applied to the sort of "mean, bigoted assholes" that Stridex was talking about.

cRookie_Monster · Post by **cRookie_Monster** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:34 pm

Raki wrote:
Kendamu wrote:
cRookie_Monster wrote:Did you just call all dub fans racist?
No. He even pointed out a couple examples of times he hasn't ran into racists dub fans. I bolded that part for you.

Are you trying to pick a fight or something?
I'd say so, simply because most of us don't care for the dub(of DBZ) or the dub's music. If that isn't his intent then I apologize.

I don't really care what you think of the dub music.

Dub music != my music

I was just reading that post and it sounded like someone was saying he didn't like dubs because dub fans were racist....so I asked for clarification.

(more on the music...

There's a good chunk of the dub music I don't care for as well...I only worked on about 10% of it and even when I did I didn't always control the direction or sounds used. Other than that my task was to place music in scenes... Yes I do speak up and thank people who compliment things I worked on, which includes a handful of prominent themes.)

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:45 pm

Wait, wait, wait.

Wait.

Wait.

cRookie works at Funimation?

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:59 pm

Dr. Casey wrote:Wait, wait, wait.

Wait.

Wait.

cRookie works at Funimation?

He was previously employed at Funi. Worked with Falcouner and others for DBZ's score.