CNN: Anime, Pirating & The Economy (with DBZ)

[johnboy1]

Weren't there studies that showed that people who download something are more likely to buy it?

[The Time Traveller]

Weren't there studies that showed that people who download something are more likely to buy it?

That's most likely made up by fansubbers.

[Super Sonic]

Weren't there studies that showed that people who download something are more likely to buy it?

That's most likely made up by fansubbers.

Exactly. Quite a few guys I knew said since they downloaded Paradise Kiss, there was no reason for them to buy it.

And if you download a liscensed anime that's fully available and dual-language, or an American cartoon that's fully on dvd, you are a filthy pirate.

[Smooth Criminal]

Weren't there studies that showed that people who download something are more likely to buy it?

Absolutely ludicrous. For what purpose would one person decide to purchase it on DVD after already owning a digital copy on their HDD, for free? To support the company? LOL. I applaud your efforts, but that marginal sum of pirates is just a drop in the bucket compared to those who watch and move on with their lives.

I've noticed that this isn't as big an issue with Dragonball as it is to some of the more recent anime titles. Of course, airing before the internet was a prominent tool meant that the ONLY way to experience DB/DBZ/DBGT was to wait for official releases or deal with piss-poor bootlegs on VHS tapes. Dealing with modern titles, however, means that you can own that episode the DAY of its original airing in Japan. Let's be honest with ourselves.... What kind of boyscout is going to turn down watching their favorite show even though it is the 'morally wrong' thing to do? Wait for the official American release? You've got to be kidding-- in many instances you'd be waiting several years to see what JP fans have already long forgotten. I notice that nowadays companies are striving towards bridging that gap- (i.e. speeding up the publication of Naruto and One Piece manga, anime, etc.)

I think that with these efforts, the anime companies can begin to eliminate some pirating habits of hardcore fans in other countries outside of Japan. Still..... It's like that famous motto goes... "Hungry? Why wait?"

[Raki]

Just sharing some comments from Arlong Park (One Piece) forums:

"Shit man. That is just sad, I knew animators didn't make much (which is a shame cause it's hard as shit), but I had no idea they made that little! Makes you wonder what manga artists like Oda make. I presume they're set up pretty good."

"I will never watch One Piece online again (maybe not any other Toei Anime perhaps, not sure)

I just feel so damn bad now"

Good. People who download shows that get good releases are scum. It's one thing to download a show that won't ever get a domestic release. Totally different to leech a Naruto or One Piece.

Anime is too expensive. It's as simple as that. The prices are not reasonable in the slightest. It's really bad here in Canada, one dvd is close around 30 dollars, give me a break. I refuse to be ripped off like that.

I don't download anything either but I will never ever buy something that's a huge ripoff.

Import from the US. The Canadian dollar is stronger and you'll be saving money.

[Super Sayian Prime]

Anime is too expensive. It's as simple as that. The prices are not reasonable in the slightest. It's really bad here in Canada, one dvd is close around 30 dollars, give me a break. I refuse to be ripped off like that.

I don't download anything either but I will never ever buy something that's a huge ripoff.

...You are joking around aren't you?

Joking with what? Here in Canada, a anime dvd with 3 or 4 episodes is around 34.99 or something. Are you actually suggesting that that's a cheap price?

Singles are so 2007.

Most singles I see at HMV are like $25-$30 depending on the studio. They usually just charge MSRP because anime is a niche product and no one is really competing agaisnt them since it's niche, so prices stay high just because they can. Half Season sets go for $40-$70 depending on the studio and title. One Piece goes for like $44, as does FUNi's DBZ/GT sets. My Bandai Gundam 00 set one was like $45.

My advice: www.rightstuf.com if you have a credit card.

[JulieYBM]

...You are joking around aren't you?

Joking with what? Here in Canada, a anime dvd with 3 or 4 episodes is around 34.99 or something. Are you actually suggesting that that's a cheap price?

Singles are so 2007.

Most singles I see at HMV are like $25-$30 depending on the studio. They usually just charge MSRP because anime is a niche product and no one is really competing agaisnt them since it's niche, so prices stay high just because they can. Half Season sets go for $40-$70 depending on the studio and title. One Piece goes for like $44, as does FUNi's DBZ/GT sets. My Bandai Gundam 00 set one was like $45.

My advice: www.rightstuf.com if you have a credit card.

Or mail order. That's what I do, as One Piece is $37 when pre-ordering from RightStuf, plus five bucks shipping...and presto!

[fps_anth]

I just feel so damn bad now"

Good. People who download shows that get good releases are scum. It's one thing to download a show that won't ever get a domestic release. Totally different to leech a Naruto or One Piece.

But at the same time, there's no way I'm waiting 5+ years for the dub to catch up to where the One Piece anime is currently at in Japan. I'll watch my fansubs now, and pick up the DVDs with high quality subs when the time comes. I've picked up every One Piece DVD that has been released so far, and they are 10x better than the fansubs I watched of those episodes years ago.

Dragon Ball, on the other hand, there is absolutely no excuse. For Z, we have two releases for nearly the entire series, with a third (perfect) version coming soon. If you pirate DB when the Dragonboxes are localized...I don't know what to say.

[Big Momma]

I just feel so damn bad now"

Good. People who download shows that get good releases are scum. It's one thing to download a show that won't ever get a domestic release. Totally different to leech a Naruto or One Piece.

But at the same time, there's no way I'm waiting 5+ years for the dub to catch up to where the One Piece anime is currently at in Japan. I'll watch my fansubs now, and pick up the DVDs with high quality subs when the time comes. I've picked up every One Piece DVD that has been released so far, and they are 10x better than the fansubs I watched of those episodes years ago.

Dragon Ball, on the other hand, there is absolutely no excuse. For Z, we have two releases for nearly the entire series, with a third (perfect) version coming soon. If you pirate DB when the Dragonboxes are localized...I don't know what to say.

Well, the only fansubs of DBZ you'll find nowadays would most likely be those of AnimeLabs...and that's pretty much an entirely different show than official releases will give you.

[JulieYBM]

I just feel so damn bad now"

Good. People who download shows that get good releases are scum. It's one thing to download a show that won't ever get a domestic release. Totally different to leech a Naruto or One Piece.

But at the same time, there's no way I'm waiting 5+ years for the dub to catch up to where the One Piece anime is currently at in Japan. I'll watch my fansubs now, and pick up the DVDs with high quality subs when the time comes. I've picked up every One Piece DVD that has been released so far, and they are 10x better than the fansubs I watched of those episodes years ago.

Well, it only took two years for FUNimation to dub the first 195 episodes of One Piece. I don't think it'll be five years to do another 200 (that's about one hundred dubbed episodes a year and only 50 new Japanese a year), factor in translations for 392+ being done already for the simulcast, and...yeah. If FUNimation keeps up their pace (although they don't seem to have 196+ licensed, despite conflicting reports)...who knows?


But yes, DragonBall...and all Anime, don't steal it!

[B]

Pirating Dragon Ball is incredibly improbable since any sort of illegal distribution is awful or non-existant.

[Tweaker]

I think it's important to note that while downloading DVD rips and the like of a commercial product like the Dragon Ball Z Season Sets is certainly illegal in every sense of the word and would make you a pirate, the question should be whether or not the person being labeled as a pirate... well, cares.

Let me provide an example for context--the website I help maintain, Sonic Retro, has its roots solidly formed in the research, reverse-engineering, and analysis of prototype copies of several of the classic Sonic games on the Sega Genesis; in addition, several hacks of the final, commercially released games are abundant as well.

For all intents and purposes, to even download these ROM images is illegal; to hack them to create something different is even more illegal. You could even equate downloading a ROM to downloading an episode of Dragon Ball or something without paying for a DVD. The question is this, though--who cares? Or, more specifically, do you care? Are you going to get caught, arrested, and sued for it?

By reverse-engineering these games, we've learned tons of things about their developmental cycle, including several alternative or scrapped levels, gimmicks, and the like. In addition, by hacking the commercial games, we've managed to create our own levels entirely from scratch using the original game engine--running on the original hardware, even! I mean, sure, it's illegal... but does that really matter? SEGA is very aware of our antics, after all, and they have chosen to pursue no action; in fact, we're linked to as a recommended on the official SEGA blog!

I've found that a lot of action taken against copyright infringement (or a lack thereof, even) is largely based on a few factors--intent, context, and respect. If you respect the product in a way that does the company no significant harm and you don't actively encourage piracy of their products, it's easy for them for them to simply turn a blind eye to your antics of their own free will. If they feel threatened, they will take action; if they don't, they won't.

When it comes to Dragon Ball... well, it's ultimately up to you whether you decide to simply download the episodes or not. I mean, they're right there and easy to find, and it's more money in your pocket... but do you want to risk it potentially affecting the kind of Dragon Ball-related releases that may be available on the market in the future? Your choice.

Personally, I don't care what anyone does; the series has already been re-released dozens of times at this point and I think we've all seen it by now. It'd be neat if increased sales encouraged new content, though! Something to keep in mind, if nothing else.

I'm sorry that this post was all over the place, but hopefully you got something out of it. Piracy is definitely illegal, but it's only as "bad" as you make it seem.

[B]

That's actually more or less my standpoint. There's no arguing whether it's right or wrong, but individual feelings are what play the biggest role in purchasing anything.

[Amigo Ten]

Personally, I don't really care about pirating. I'll do it if I feel like it. Usually it's things I'm interested in buying too, and since I actually like to have a disc to put on my shelf, I'll but if I like it. I downloaded all the Futurama movies as soon as I could because I love the show and the UK had a later release date than the US. I promptly marched out and bought each one as soon as it was released too. Sometimes I can't find a place to buy a show, or even worse, it doesn't even have a DVD release (like Shooting Stars), in which case there isn't much choice.

Although some stuff I just don't care that much about to actually buy, or maybe it'd cost too much, but I might still want to watch. Dragonball falls into that category, and actually I haven't even downloaded the whole thing (I know, I'm a saint) because I'm not that interested. I just wanted to watch the parts I'd never seen, which was all of DB and the Buu saga in Z. No longer have DB either. Must have deleted it some point for the space. Haven't seen GT, but never bothered to download it.

Basically if I like something enough I'll give it some of my money. The Dragonball anime isn't really one of those things. The manga is though, and all told that cost me £200+.

[nathantheguitarist]

I know pirating is illegal and all, but how about for stuff that's impossible to find, out of print, or is so rare that it's on ebay for $200+ (which doesn't make the publishers any money anyways)?

Or things that don't have a (full) release, like the alternate dubs of Dragonball?

Is it still illegal if it's out of print, or never was in print to begin with? Who would be losing money if it was? Random stuff like this fucks with my head to make pirating seem like not such a bad thing... Especially because I'm dirt poor, and can barely afford toilet paper at the end of the month most of the time...

[Cold Cobra]

I'm in the category of downloading episodes of Bleach but I buy the boxsets as soon as they're released in the UK, and will continue to do so. That's the only one I download and watch weekly. I watched the first eight episodes of fansubbed One Piece last week on youtube and said "Yep, I'll enjoy this" and I now plan on ordering the One Piece sets (I just want to make sure they're not going to be released in this country before I import...) I heard about the new FMA series and I thought "sounds good, I'll buy that when it comes out". And so on...

Now I know I'm the minority, but I felt the need to post that, as someone said earlier, downloading episodes can be like a preview as long as you like the show so much you KNOW you'll buy it.

[Kendamu]

I know pirating is illegal and all, but how about for stuff that's impossible to find, out of print, or is so rare that it's on ebay for $200+ (which doesn't make the publishers any money anyways)?

Or things that don't have a (full) release, like the alternate dubs of Dragonball?

Is it still illegal if it's out of print, or never was in print to begin with? Who would be losing money if it was? Random stuff like this fucks with my head to make pirating seem like not such a bad thing... Especially because I'm dirt poor, and can barely afford toilet paper at the end of the month most of the time...

It's illegal because the companies that own the rights to distribute Dragonball where you live want you to buy their product. Even if it's an alternate dub, you're still stealing Dragonball and not giving money to the rightful license holders. While I agree that they shouldn't pursue people who are watching alternate dubs that aren't available for sale, it's still the law and the corporation sees you as a thief.

Sucks, eh?

[ShinRogafuken]

As people have said, Dragon Ball isn't really the problem. However I know tons of websites that have all 291 Remastered Boxset episodes and all the movies/specials, and of course there's all the Dragon Ball Kai fansubs and raws all over the place.

But One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach are worse. Just go to the Arlong Park One Piece forums and most of the categories and threads in the anime section are for the several fansub groups, and the free raw providers on YouTube.

I'm not into Naruto and Bleach that much anymore, so I dont' know how bad the situation is but its probably as bad as One Piece.

[Puto]

Good. People who download shows that get good releases are scum. It's one thing to download a show that won't ever get a domestic release. Totally different to leech a Naruto or One Piece.

But at the same time, there's no way I'm waiting 5+ years for the dub to catch up to where the One Piece anime is currently at in Japan. I'll watch my fansubs now, and pick up the DVDs with high quality subs when the time comes. I've picked up every One Piece DVD that has been released so far, and they are 10x better than the fansubs I watched of those episodes years ago.

Well, it only took two years for FUNimation to dub the first 195 episodes of One Piece. I don't think it'll be five years to do another 200 (that's about one hundred dubbed episodes a year and only 50 new Japanese a year), factor in translations for 392+ being done already for the simulcast, and...yeah. If FUNimation keeps up their pace (although they don't seem to have 196+ licensed, despite conflicting reports)...who knows?


But yes, DragonBall...and all Anime, don't steal it!

One Piece's DVDs are only up to episode 66 so far.

[The Time Traveller]

And if you download a liscensed anime that's fully available and dual-language, or an American cartoon that's fully on dvd, you are a filthy pirate.

You're a filthy pirate if you illegally download anything though...