CNN: Anime, Pirating & The Economy (with DBZ)

TheMajinRedComet · Post by **TheMajinRedComet** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:53 pm

Stealing is wrong! Enough said. Downloading anime illegal is wrong. Do not do it. What is so hard about having to earn your entertainment. I know I might sound stuck up, but from my point of view breaking the law is wrong. There are many legal options to watch anime online these days if you hate physical media, Hulu and Crunchroll to name a few. So next time you torrent illegal anime just reminder that it is illegal whether you get caught or not, it is wrong.

B · Post by B » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:25 pm

TheMajinRedComet wrote:Stealing is wrong! Enough said. Downloading anime illegal is wrong. Do not do it. What is so hard about having to earn your entertainment. I know I might sound stuck up, but from my point of view breaking the law is wrong. There are many legal options to watch anime online these days if you hate physical media, Hulu and Crunchroll to name a few. So next time you torrent illegal anime just reminder that it is illegal whether you get caught or not, it is wrong.

But what if you don't care if it's wrong?

Just asking for the sake of discussion.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:34 pm

TheMajinRedComet wrote:Stealing is wrong! Enough said. Downloading anime illegal is wrong. Do not do it.

Correction--stealing is illegal. Whether or not something is "wrong" is entirely up to your own subjectively-defined morals. Furthermore, even if it does go against your beliefs, it's once again up to you as to whether or not that actually matters to you.

Is piracy "wrong"? Up to you. Is it illegal? Definitely.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:55 pm

Boy, on the Arlong Park One Piece forums, the fansubbers are like "We don't care".

Ugh. And I read in some of the other Fansub threads for the latest episode all this praise for the fansubbers, someone said "Fansubbers are great people!"

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:56 am

As an artist, I'm pretty heavily anti-piracy. People have a right to make a living off their work, and if you actually like the show/band/ectera you should want to support them, eh? It's not right to just rip the artists off ><

There are a few exceptions I draw though, the major one being what Kunzait brought up with availability. If it's something that simply isn't legally available (either it hasn't been licensed yet, it's so old it'll never be licenses, or it was only released as some shitty dub vhs in the 80's and the actual show is MIA). If you honestly can't buy the show anywhere, you really don't have a lot of options. I'll probably have to end up doing this with the third season of Hare and Guu because the company that made the show went out of business before the last part was licensed. Hopefully something will happen to let there be a legal release here but it's not all that well known so it may never happen, and there may be no other options left.

So it isn't those people I have a problem with, or the people who watch just an ep or two to see what a show's like. It's the people who torrent whole shows that are available with no plans to ever pay for what they took who get on my nerves severely. You’re stealing from the artists who kicked their asses to make this show for us, and to never pay for anything you get when it’s totally possible to do so isn’t right.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:25 am

Velasa wrote: There are a few exceptions I draw though, the major one being what Kunzait brought up with availability. If it's something that simply isn't legally available (either it hasn't been licensed yet, it's so old it'll never be licenses, or it was only released as some shitty dub vhs in the 80's and the actual show is MIA). If you honestly can't buy the show anywhere, you really don't have a lot of options. I'll probably have to end up doing this with the third season of Hare and Guu because the company that made the show went out of business before the last part was licensed. Hopefully something will happen to let there be a legal release here but it's not all that well known so it may never happen, and there may be no other options left.

So it isn't those people I have a problem with, or the people who watch just an ep or two to see what a show's like.

Yeah, I agree with you here. The sad thing is, this isn't the case most of the time. I think people would like to think that but its so obvious from the other forums that most people are just watching the full series without paying.

That's why I hate websites like AnimeCrazy, they have every episode of every show subbed and raw, including Dragon Ball Kai, DB/Z/GT, Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Yu Yu Hakusho, and probably a hundred more.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:29 am

Should you really be name dropping a site like that?

Anyway yes, I'm with Velasa that if you're just downloading something unavailable or just a random episode that isn't exactly a big deal.

If its not available, at all then what can you do? If its just a random one time episode, I don't see that as enough to really cause damage.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:37 am

I see Fansubbing, based on it's ORIGINAL intent, to be a Robin Hood effort.

The point of Fansubbing is to get fans in a certain region the show before it's been officially licensed. So before it's been licensed, and we don't have a legal way to get it, we're the "Poor". (I watch Raws, but that's besides the point)
Fansub groups are the Robin Hoods who "Rob From the Rich" to "Give to the Poor". so it's forgivable.
It's when a series is licensed and starts getting released that it becomes a problem.
Fansubbing does good though. One Piece has been canceled from TV, so right now the Majority of it's buyers are MOST LIKELY The people who have been watching fansubs for years. (now that we FINALLY have an uncut release)
And Fullmetal Alchemist is another one. It might not have gotten NEARLY AS BIG if it weren't for the fansubs starting up Hype, Bleach and Naruto too probably.

But I do hate people who try to say that because Fansubs are by the "Fans", they're somehow oh so much better than anything a professional company could do.
Then you get things like One Piece Fansubs that decide the word "Nakama" is magical and can't be translated...
These people are just.... uuugh, and they refuse to buy an official release which is REALLY DUMB because they're those who just refuse to stop pirating.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:40 am

DemonRin wrote:I see Fansubbing, based on it's ORIGINAL intent, to be a Robin Hood effort.

The point of Fansubbing is to get fans in a certain region the show before it's been officially licensed. So before it's been licensed, and we don't have a legal way to get it, we're the "Poor". (I watch Raws, but that's besides the point)
Fansub groups are the Robin Hoods who "Rob From the Rich" to "Give to the Poor". so it's forgivable.
It's when a series is licensed and starts getting released that it becomes a problem.
Fansubbing does good though. One Piece has been canceled from TV, so right now the Majority of it's buyers are MOST LIKELY The people who have been watching fansubs for years. (now that we FINALLY have an uncut release)
And Fullmetal Alchemist is another one. It might not have gotten NEARLY AS BIG if it weren't for the fansubs starting up Hype, Bleach and Naruto too probably.

But I do hate people who try to say that because Fansubs are by the "Fans", they're somehow oh so much better than anything a professional company could do.
Then you get things like One Piece Fansubs that decide the word "Nakama" is magical and can't be translated...
These people are just.... uuugh, and they refuse to buy an official release which is REALLY DUMB because they're those who just refuse to stop pirating.

Totally agree with you there, I remember on the Arlong Park forums your argument about that haha

Yeah, another thing about the fansubs, especially with One Piece, is that even though they are doing the simulcast and all, people want to go with fansubs because "They like them better", "They are made by the fans", "They are more nostalgic" and all that stuff. COME ON, FUNimation is now bringing back the One Piece simulcast so people can watch the Japanese episodes subtitled online and they still want to pirate it. It's mindboggling.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:45 am

I definitely agree with you there. The original purpose of fansubbing was to push knowledge of anime out there to help it spread. Unfortunatly some people don't stop when it becomes aknowledged, and released legitimatly in the US. This stops being a growth effort then, and more of a cancer that chokes out that which it says it loves so much.

Thats what I find to be the ultimate irony, so many people who download everything and pay for nothing often complain how formulaic and less diverse anime has become lately. All the while not seeing this occured because anime companies want to make money, and aren't making money on the niche titles as much as they could, because they're being downloaded.

Don't get me wrong, major appeal titles get downloaded too, but because they ARE major appeal titles they survive much better with it.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:45 am

ShinRogafuken wrote:COME ON, FUNimation is now bringing back the One Piece simulcast so people can watch the Japanese episodes subtitled online and they still want to pirate it. It's mindboggling.

What makes this even more ridiculous is that you don't even have to pirate it it--FUNimation made the series available online fully subtitled and in very fair quality. If your aim is just to watch the episodes casually, that's exactly what it allows you to do! And I don't know about you, but I'd much prefer a professional translation job than one from most fansubbers (no offense to fansubbers, of course).

I dunno, it's stuff like that where piracy stops being subjectively questionable and starts being outright retarded. At least have some sound reasoning behind the things you do. I have no problem with fansubbing as a practice, but I think that if there's an official product that does the same thing--and better--you should opt to obtain that instead. Nothing wrong with putting out a bit more for quality.

B · Post by B » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:50 am

Those kind of people are just really cheap bastards, to be honest. =/
They'll come up with any excuse as to why they are entitled to free shit.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:51 am

Tweaker wrote: I dunno, it's stuff like that where piracy stops being subjectively questionable and starts being outright retarded. At least have some sound reasoning behind the things you do. I have no problem with fansubbing as a practice, but I think that if there's an official product that does the same thing--and better--you should opt to obtain that instead. Nothing wrong with putting out a bit more for quality.

They want to do it because they think they're cool and all as pirates/rebels (whatever). Ugh...I understand for shows that aren't licensed in the area yet or if 4kids ruined it or something, but come on, when you have a free, legal, online way to watch the same show, why not?

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:53 am

ShinRogafuken wrote:
Tweaker wrote: I dunno, it's stuff like that where piracy stops being subjectively questionable and starts being outright retarded. At least have some sound reasoning behind the things you do. I have no problem with fansubbing as a practice, but I think that if there's an official product that does the same thing--and better--you should opt to obtain that instead. Nothing wrong with putting out a bit more for quality.
They want to do it because they think they're cool and all as pirates/rebels (whatever). Ugh...I understand for shows that aren't licensed in the area yet or if 4kids ruined it or something, but come on, when you have a free, legal, online way to watch the same show, why not?

In the case of One Piece, it's because "OMFG, THEY USE GUM GUM AND THEY TRANSLATE NAKAMA?!"
I guarantee it.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:57 am

I think the problem is that the fansubbing community at large (this means most, not all, because by the law of averages no statment will ever apply to all of any group) thinks that anime translation companies are inherently evil and they are fighting a crusade to take them down.

You see, because these companies are american they are clearly evil, and because they are an american company their translation will never be good. So they'd rather trust a pro bono translator because that person isn't in it for the money, therefore is good.

Its an extension of the wanting to survive in this world is evil mentality that the young and niave often embrace.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:35 pm

DemonRin wrote:
ShinRogafuken wrote:
Tweaker wrote: I dunno, it's stuff like that where piracy stops being subjectively questionable and starts being outright retarded. At least have some sound reasoning behind the things you do. I have no problem with fansubbing as a practice, but I think that if there's an official product that does the same thing--and better--you should opt to obtain that instead. Nothing wrong with putting out a bit more for quality.
They want to do it because they think they're cool and all as pirates/rebels (whatever). Ugh...I understand for shows that aren't licensed in the area yet or if 4kids ruined it or something, but come on, when you have a free, legal, online way to watch the same show, why not?
In the case of One Piece, it's because "OMFG, THEY USE GUM GUM AND THEY TRANSLATE NAKAMA?!"
I guarantee it.

What's a nakama?

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:40 pm

Super Sonic wrote:
DemonRin wrote:
ShinRogafuken wrote: They want to do it because they think they're cool and all as pirates/rebels (whatever). Ugh...I understand for shows that aren't licensed in the area yet or if 4kids ruined it or something, but come on, when you have a free, legal, online way to watch the same show, why not?
In the case of One Piece, it's because "OMFG, THEY USE GUM GUM AND THEY TRANSLATE NAKAMA?!"
I guarantee it.
What's a nakama?

Japanese for friend or comrade. In the case of One Piece, I'd say rendering it as 'crewmate' or family isn't too farfetched, either.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:45 pm

Super Sonic wrote:
DemonRin wrote:
ShinRogafuken wrote: They want to do it because they think they're cool and all as pirates/rebels (whatever). Ugh...I understand for shows that aren't licensed in the area yet or if 4kids ruined it or something, but come on, when you have a free, legal, online way to watch the same show, why not?
In the case of One Piece, it's because "OMFG, THEY USE GUM GUM AND THEY TRANSLATE NAKAMA?!"
I guarantee it.
What's a nakama?

Comrade, Friend, things to that extent.
EDIT: Touche', Black Magician, touche'...

That's the one thing that bothers me. Right now I"m in the process of trying to catch up with One Piece, and I'll see parts in the manga that I think would look pretty cool animated, so I may reference to a fansub now and again. But for some reason I really don't like it when they leave in words like "Nakama" or put "Gomu Gomu no"(Although not "Gomu Gomu" so much because it is an attack name...which is just Engrish for "Gum Gum"...) in their fansubs.

That, and uneccessary swearing. I can also promise that's why most people would rather watch fansubs than legal streams. They think "ITS NOT UNCUT CAUSE DIDN'T SWEAR! THEY'RE WATERING DOWN MY ANIME!"

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:57 pm

wait... people don't want to translate a word that means comrade?

Where's that picture of Piccolo with his hand on his head that says "ugh" when you need it? >.>

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:59 pm

Sometimes know can be opposite. Saw on a Naruto forum, guys were complaining when in the dub Jiraiya mentioned being slipped a mickey and they didn't know what that meant.