CNN: Anime, Pirating & The Economy (with DBZ)

[laserkid]

Whether you think it's right or wrong it's your opinion, as said earlier. You really can't blame anyone for downloading because they actually CAN do it and don't suffer anything for it.

You can also kill people in the world, that doesn't mean its okay to do so. You can also kidnap little kids, tie them up in a basement, and rape them. Same thing there, doesn't mean you should.

Not to say that's the same level as downloading anime at ALL, but I'm merely pointing out the flaw in your logic.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, or that it's right to.

Of course, you are right that right and wrong is a subjective thing. However, that doesn't invalidate the discussion of what people think is right and wrong.

[Innagadadavida]

Whether you think it's right or wrong it's your opinion, as said earlier. You really can't blame anyone for downloading because they actually CAN do it and don't suffer anything for it.

You can also kill people in the world, that doesn't mean its okay to do so. You can also kidnap little kids, tie them up in a basement, and rape them. Same thing there, doesn't mean you should.

Not to say that's the same level as downloading anime at ALL, but I'm merely pointing out the flaw in your logic.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, or that it's right to.

Muder, kidnapping, torture, and rape are NOT comparable to piracy AT ALL. Piracy is a victimless crime and has no business being compared to events that change people's lives for the worst. Furthermore, you contradicted yourself at the end of the post. You said his logic was flawed and implied that there were universal truths as to what is right and wrong (and that murder and rape were part of that). Then you said...

Of course, you are right that right and wrong is a subjective thing. However, that doesn't invalidate the discussion of what people think is right and wrong.

Which is true. Most people believe murder, torture, and rape are evil deeds but that's purely sociological. But get to far into that and you're talking philosophy, which has no place in a Dragon Ball message board. I'm just trying to point out the flaw in your logic.

[laserkid]

If you read what I said, I clearly pointed out that these were nowhere NEAR the same level, and you still read that as being stated as such? It wasn't that it's the same, its using the same logic to a different situation.

Moreover calling downloading a victimless crime is rather ignoring the article at hand that IS showing the victims of downloading.

Furthermore the logical flaw I was pointing out had nothing to do with a universal moral, merely pointing out that using the logic of "if you can do it, do it" is a damaging one to society at large. Think its right or wrong? Doesn't matter, the logic is DAMAGING and that IS a fact.

Lastly, what I was trying to say at the end is YES moral judgements ARE subjective. But, writing off people who say them in a topic is the same sort of thing as saying "well thats YOUR opinion". It doesn't further anything in the topic, it's just trying to devalue someone else's opinion without a counter argument, and as such shouldn't be tossed around.

[ShinRogafuken]

The point is, whether you think its right or wrong, pirating is not good for the anime industry. It's not that more complex than that.

[Raki]

The point is, whether you think its right or wrong, pirating is not good for the anime industry. It's not that more complex than that.

That is the only point that really matters.

[Velasa]

Piracy is a victimless crime

You're ripping off the artists and the companies and everyone involved in the production of the product you're suppose to love if you just download full shows/cds/movies and never pay anything for it. When one person does it it's just distasteful. When hundreds of people do it, it cripples the people who poured themselves into making these things and they won't be able to make any more if people never pay them for their work.

See: Pioneer.

Yes, morality is subjective. People can consider many harmless things dangerous and dangerous things harmless. But if the point is to discuss a topic actual discussion is needed.

[KKZ]

I'm just curious how you guys feel about this.

I've bought lots of GBA and DS games and kept them sealed up in the plastic and have them decorating various parts of my media center. I don't open them because I think they'll be worth some money some day. I mean, I just saw a sealed Pokemon Gold sell for $300 on eBay!

But, at the same time, I still want to be able to enjoy all these great games, so I download ROMs of them all and burn them to flash carts, or if I can't do that for whatever reason, I'll buy used cartridges at GameStop or online.

However, I still respect all the companies that made the games in the first place, so I buy copies and keep them sealed as well. This benefits both them because they're making more money (Which means more games), and this benefits me because I'll be able to sell them later on for double or triple what I invested.

Am I in the wrong for doing this?

[Velasa]

Nope. You paid for the game, you just want to keep the box as-is so you play another copy. It's like if you have a bunch of Genesis games but all the controllers broke and you can't find working ones anymore- you can't play what you purchased for some reason so you play another copy. And shit I need to go to work, otherwise I'd expand that better.

[laserkid]

Agreed if you bought it but preffer to play a backup copy, I've no issue with this because you BOUGHT it. While I am strongly anti piracy, I also think end users rights are severely underprotected, because ironically technically that is illegal.

[Tweaker]

The point is, whether you think its right or wrong, pirating is not good for the anime industry. It's not that more complex than that.

You could try and stretch that statement to say that piracy isn't good for any industry... then again, does it really affect any industry that much? I mean, I've seen several musicians and other licensing companies purposely distribute their materials on the internet for free when the product was otherwise sold for money, and it actually boosted sales and popularity of the product. You know, the exact opposite of what you'd expect.

Not only that, but consider the literally hundreds of thousands of mediums through which pirated DVD rips and the lot are freely available to download on the internet with absolutely no consequence and no inconvenience. By all means, one person probably buys the DVD to rip it and everyone else leeches off of it, avoiding any potential costs involved in being able to view that footage. By all means, this should be a huge problem, damaging the industry beyond any type of repairable extent.

But it's not.

I don't know... I'm not going to say it doesn't hurt the industry at all--after all, even a penny lost from a potential purchase is considered hurtful from a business perspective--but is the extent to which it damages the industry and future releases really as drastic as a lot of people play it off to be? I think there's definitely room for reasonable doubt in that assumption.

Once again, since I feel I have to clarify--I am not condoning piracy; I just want to try and take a more objective look at this whole debate.

[Scarz]

I've been avoiding this topic since the day it went up. Mainly because I'm an art student and I hear enough about piracy and animation on a day to day basis that I think I may go postal the next time a hippie douche bag artist (other than myself) ask me "where do I stand when it comes to pirating animation?"

Were exactly do I stand on piracy you ask? Arrgghhh! Me be a filthy pirate since I was wee lad! Yes I download tv shows and animation illegally even Dragonball shows. Hell I was buying bootleg videos since the mid 90’s. Before anyone wags their finger at me, I like to kindly ask you to get off your high horse because your head is about to hit the moon! Yes I'm fully aware about how bad pirating has become for the animation industry either here in America or in Japan. As an inspiring animator I sympathize a bit. But here's cold heartless fact:

Most people don't care. If there something I like that I could get for free with little to no consciences on my part I'm going to do it. And that's the mentality of most people who download or watch anime online illegally. This also includes other medians like music, movies, tv shows, or porn. Animation companies and movie studios can put out as many bullshit PSAs about pirating they want and they'll be just as ineffective as Drug PSAs in the 80's.

What most studios can do is be smart about it. If thousands of people are recording your shows and sharing them to countless others over the web, be one step ahead of the game. Put your episodes online before they could some much as hit the download button. I believe FUNi recently tried something like this (it's about damn time if you ask me). And don’t think for a second that no one going to watch it because it’s in Japanese. Most fans don't care if its dubbed or not, why else would we be so dead set in getting the latest RAWs for every animation Japan some much as coughs out.

Hulu is another great example, streaming tv shows on their website and making money from online ad's or the little commercial in-between episodes. Major companies like McDonlads are paying almost the same amount for online ad's as tv commercials. (If I could remember the article that stated this I would link it, so please don't think pulling this out my ass)

I don't buy DVD's anymore because the prices are ludicrous especially since most anime DVD has little to no bonus content. They can doll up the newest dragonball DVD boxes as much as they want, I just want something more then same crap FUNi has been trying to sell me for the past decade. I waste enough money buying DBZ figurines (well, not yet but I’m going too).

"Support the artist," how about supporting my wallet!

I would go on and on about this but I hate those who uses the forums as their on personal soap box and I’m afraid now that have become one of them.

[ShinRogafuken]

I've been avoiding this topic since the day it went up. Mainly because I'm an art student and I hear enough about piracy and animation on a day to day basis that I think I may go postal the next time a hippie douche bag artist (other than myself) ask me "where do I stand when it comes to pirating animation?"

Were exactly do I stand on piracy you ask? Arrgghhh! Me be a filthy pirate since I was wee lad! Yes I download tv shows and animation illegally even Dragonball shows. Hell I was buying bootleg videos since the mid 90’s. Before anyone wags their finger at me, I like to kindly ask you to get off your high horse because your head is about to hit the moon! Yes I'm fully aware about how bad pirating has become for the animation industry either here in America or in Japan. As an inspiring animator I sympathize a bit. But here's cold heartless fact:

Most people don't care. If there something I like that I could get for free with little to no consciences on my part I'm going to do it. And that's the mentality of most people who download or watch anime online illegally. This also includes other medians like music, movies, tv shows, or porn. Animation companies and movie studios can put out as many bullshit PSAs about pirating they want and they'll be just as ineffective as Drug PSAs in the 80's.

What most studios can do is be smart about it. If thousands of people are recording your shows and sharing them to countless others over the web, be one step ahead of the game. Put your episodes online before they could some much as hit the download button. I believe FUNi recently tried something like this (it's about damn time if you ask me). And don’t think for a second that no one going to watch it because it’s in Japanese. Most fans don't care if its dubbed or not, why else would we be so dead set in getting the latest RAWs for every animation Japan some much as coughs out.

Hulu is another great example, streaming tv shows on their website and making money from online ad's or the little commercial in-between episodes. Major companies like McDonlads are paying almost the same amount for online ad's as tv commercials. (If I could remember the article that stated this I would link it, so please don't think pulling this out my ass)

I don't buy DVD's anymore because the prices are ludicrous especially since most anime DVD has little to no bonus content. They can doll up the newest dragonball DVD boxes as much as they want, I just want something more then same crap FUNi has been trying to sell me for the past decade. I waste enough money buying DBZ figurines (well, not yet but I’m going too).

"Support the artist," how about supporting my wallet!

I would go on and on about this but I hate those who uses the forums as their on personal soap box and I’m afraid now that have become one of them.

A great example of why the world just isn't fair.

[ShinRogafuken]

Now this is what really pisses me off. One of my subscribers wanted me to advertise his channel because he has downloads to like every episode of Remastered DBZ, and I posted a comment telling him to stop uploading DBZ episodes.

My comment got rated down to -9 and someone replied saying "STFU u IDIOT!"

[Bussani]

I've been avoiding this topic since the day it went up. Mainly because I'm an art student and I hear enough about piracy and animation on a day to day basis that I think I may go postal the next time a hippie douche bag artist (other than myself) ask me "where do I stand when it comes to pirating animation?"

Were exactly do I stand on piracy you ask? Arrgghhh! Me be a filthy pirate since I was wee lad! Yes I download tv shows and animation illegally even Dragonball shows. Hell I was buying bootleg videos since the mid 90’s. Before anyone wags their finger at me, I like to kindly ask you to get off your high horse because your head is about to hit the moon! Yes I'm fully aware about how bad pirating has become for the animation industry either here in America or in Japan. As an inspiring animator I sympathize a bit. But here's cold heartless fact:

Most people don't care. If there something I like that I could get for free with little to no consciences on my part I'm going to do it. And that's the mentality of most people who download or watch anime online illegally. This also includes other medians like music, movies, tv shows, or porn. Animation companies and movie studios can put out as many bullshit PSAs about pirating they want and they'll be just as ineffective as Drug PSAs in the 80's.

What most studios can do is be smart about it. If thousands of people are recording your shows and sharing them to countless others over the web, be one step ahead of the game. Put your episodes online before they could some much as hit the download button. I believe FUNi recently tried something like this (it's about damn time if you ask me). And don’t think for a second that no one going to watch it because it’s in Japanese. Most fans don't care if its dubbed or not, why else would we be so dead set in getting the latest RAWs for every animation Japan some much as coughs out.

Hulu is another great example, streaming tv shows on their website and making money from online ad's or the little commercial in-between episodes. Major companies like McDonlads are paying almost the same amount for online ad's as tv commercials. (If I could remember the article that stated this I would link it, so please don't think pulling this out my ass)

I don't buy DVD's anymore because the prices are ludicrous especially since most anime DVD has little to no bonus content. They can doll up the newest dragonball DVD boxes as much as they want, I just want something more then same crap FUNi has been trying to sell me for the past decade. I waste enough money buying DBZ figurines (well, not yet but I’m going too).

"Support the artist," how about supporting my wallet!

I would go on and on about this but I hate those who uses the forums as their on personal soap box and I’m afraid now that have become one of them.

You make some good points. Most people don't care. Most warnings not to do it don't matter. And there are cases where making it available online boosts sales.

That said, I don't think only ads get you much money at all. Barely enough to cover server costs, in most cases. Maybe it's different for this kind of thing because of a larger amount of viewers? Also...

"Support the artist," how about supporting my wallet!

I see your point, but it's not like anime is a necessity. It's a luxury. If someone needs money in their wallet for more important things, couldn't they just give up the luxury?