Dragonball & One Piece: A Match Made In Heaven?

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:39 am

I do see where Kunzait's coming from; One Piece is just smothered in sentimentality. It becomes obvious from around the time that Coby starts crying because Luffy helps get him into the Marines that tears are an automatic response to any sort of emotion in the One Piece world. Obviously it doesn't bother me as much for the simple fact that I enjoy the series a great deal, but if someone who likes the story and characters find their displays a sentiment a bit much every now and again, that spells a bad reception for the people who don't.

As for the '227 episode' thing... that's around the beginning of an arc known as Water 7. It's a very dramatic, interesting story that focuses on there being a ton of internal strife between the Straw Hats. It's leaps and bounds over the stuff that's come before. But... I don't agree that it's where the series takes off or gets good - if you don't have any love for One Piece by the third arc, Kuro, I'd say the series just isn't for you. I think the stuff before Water 7 is just so old and crusty, and so disconnected from the current material that everyone's absorbed into, that people just don't care about it as much. So, it's not the point where the series takes off - it's just the oldest material that still feels fresh and relevant. I mean, if I watch Dragon Ball GT, and then I suddenly think about the Piccolo Daimao arc, it's going to seem a little dry and disconnected simply because I'm absorbed into something which takes place 35 years later and is a very different beast. I'd be more interested in things that share more common threads, mainly the Buu arc (The Cell saga is pretty distant, too, it's closer to sharing the same hemisphere with the Saiyan and Freeza sagas).

Yeah, I don't know if that made sense or not. Basically, if you're meant to enjoy One Piece, the series should take off 10-20 episodes in at the latest. 227 is a very significant boost in quality and scale, but that's it. It's the equivalent of the Piccolo Daimao arc, I guess - new and exciting territory, but new and exciting territory that's explored only after 100 worthwhile episodes. :P

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:58 am

Post by **Herms** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:56 am

Shoryuken wrote:Because it for one creates suspense.

How does it create suspense if you know Oda's just pulling your leg and the character will magically turn up safe and sound later?

Secondly I don't believe that Arlong is alive

Hachi told Luffy that Arlong and the rest of the crew are in a navy prison.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:27 am

Herms wrote:
Shoryuken wrote:Because it for one creates suspense.
How does it create suspense if you know Oda's just pulling your leg and the character will magically turn up safe and sound later?

Oh yeah... Pell...
I honestly think Oda only brought Pell back at the very end because his editor asked him to...
That scene made no sense...

But Oda kills people, just rarely.

Lucky Roux killed that guy in the first chapter, Arlong Killed Bellemere, Dr. Hiruluk kicked it, Kuina died, Tom Died, Saul and everyone on Ohara Died, Brook's... Entire Crew Died... Including Brook...

And Who could forget...
SPOILER AHEAD PEOPLE

Merry...

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:33 am

DemonRin wrote:But Oda kills people, just rarely.

Lucky Roux killed that guy in the first chapter, Arlong Killed Bellemere, Dr. Hiruluk kicked it, Kuina died, Tom Died, Saul and everyone on Ohara Died, Brook's... Entire Crew Died... Including Brook...

But pretty much only in flashbacks. So if it's not a flashback, you know everyone's safe.

Post by **Herms** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:17 pm

Now here's a podcast idea: a discussion of One Piece's relation to DragonBall, with Greg Werner and Kunzait as guests.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:03 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
ShinRogafuken wrote: With all due respect, what this all comes down to is the fact that most folks here are basically comparing Bruce Lee and the Venoms Mob to Errol Flynn and Monkey Island.
Woah now, comparing One Piece to Monkey Island and Errol Flynn? I mean, those are GOOD things with ACTUAL pirate adventures. That's hardly fair.

When Goku “travels the globe” he’s NOT “seeking adventure” and is NOT out to seek some fortune or meet new friends and learn valuable and moral life lessons like some of you folks all seem to be interpreting this series, as if it were plainly an adventure story. Goku’s out SOLELY to meet other fighters, people of his level of prowess or higher that he can test and improve his abilities against. Nothing more. That’s his oft stated life’s goal.

That he winds up befriending so many of these former opponents is something that COMES NATURAL to him by the very nature of him being an honorable and pure warrior (not to mentioned the fact that Goku’s “new friends” are also often out to train with him in order to learn from him, study him, and eventually improve themselves using him as either a learning template or an end goal to reach in the hopes of beating him themselves one day), but is NOT the end all be all end goal for him doing any of this. This is all the more evidenced by the fact that at the end of the day, Goku does NOT value any of their friendships more than he does his true goal of improving and evolving as a fighter.

I think there's a bit of hyperbole in here. Overall the point is incredibly right, but the extent you take this to seems a bit far. As it stands, you're more or less saying Goku's family and friends are like chess pieces in a game of "Punch You In The Face Chess", as pieces to be manipulated that he's grown somewhat attached to over time.

Oh, and I agree with everything else in your post. Except that some of your "negative" words are generally positive words for me, but Oda takes it to such an extreme that I just can't feel bothered to continue with the series.

Shoryuken · Post by **Shoryuken** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:26 pm

Herms wrote:
Shoryuken wrote:Because it for one creates suspense.
How does it create suspense if you know Oda's just pulling your leg and the character will magically turn up safe and sound later?

I ensures that the reader(s) will follow the story.
Second when Oda does choose to kill off a character then it's for the sake of plot development. And shouldn't (SPOILERS) come as a surprise for me if Ace ended up getting executed (SPOILERS OVER).

Herms wrote:
Secondly I don't believe that Arlong is alive
Hachi told Luffy that Arlong and the rest of the crew are in a navy prison.

You got me there, it's been a long time since I've read that arc.
Is my memory is starting to fail me?

Son Sebbe · Post by **Son Sebbe** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:58 pm

DemonRin wrote:I love both series'!
I Grew up with DB, it's my good old Friend I'll love forever

One Piece is my newest best friend!

I remember having a talk with another fan who likes both series', and the inevitable "Who would Win, Son Goku or Luffy?" Came up.
Most everyone who gets into this debate has to agree that you have to Nerf Son so that he can only go Super Saiyan 1 so Luffy can keep up with Gear 2nd, however I had another notion, and to all of you DB and OP fans here, I want to ask.

We all know Son would thrash Luffy if he could use all of his power (you would have to Nerf him to make it fair)
BUT. Who would win in this Match-up?
Son Goku (up to SS3, his Highest Form in the Manga) Or
Nightmare Luffy?

Normal state Goku could thrash all the strawhats...
This isn't about which characher I like most, But the hero's was just too overpowered in DragonBall... (He could destroy the intire planet...)

Appart from that, That the hero's seem alike isn't to strange...

fps_anth · Post by **fps_anth** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:00 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:The very sound of the first opening theme makes me desperately want nothing more than to just blast Slayer as loud as humanly possible while playing Doom for a couple of hours to wash the schmaltz from my systems.

So I guess you like blasting Slayer over all of Dragon Ball's OPs as well, because 'We Are!' sounds exactly the fucking same, and you've gotta be deaf to say otherwise.

Saying you have to watch 200 something episodes to start enjoy One Piece is so fucking bullshit, and if you actually believed it...I don't know what to tell ya.

Anyways, I started watching One Piece because people on Daizex encouraged me to. I did, and I now love it. There are many huge similarities between Dragon Ball and One Piece, and that's pretty much the main reason why I stuck to the series.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:19 pm

One Piece is Oda's first Manga, so the first couple of arcs are really him finding his groove. People say Arlong is where the trademark super drama and tragedy begins, which is pretty much true, but the real humor and 'weird' stylization comes around with the entrance to the Grand Line and beyond.

As for the music, I think it's fantastic, and some of the absolute best created for a Shônen.

B · Post by B » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:49 pm

fps_anth wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:The very sound of the first opening theme makes me desperately want nothing more than to just blast Slayer as loud as humanly possible while playing Doom for a couple of hours to wash the schmaltz from my systems.
So I guess you like blasting Slayer over all of Dragon Ball's OPs as well, because 'We Are!' sounds exactly the fucking same, and you've gotta be deaf to say otherwise.

I have to respectfully disagree with this. "We Are" is nothing like ANY Dragon Ball OP or ED that I have ever heard.

Maybe ZENKAI Power, but I haven't listened to it in awhile because I hate that ED.

ThegreatPirateKing · Post by **ThegreatPirateKing** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:54 pm

B wrote:
fps_anth wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:The very sound of the first opening theme makes me desperately want nothing more than to just blast Slayer as loud as humanly possible while playing Doom for a couple of hours to wash the schmaltz from my systems.
So I guess you like blasting Slayer over all of Dragon Ball's OPs as well, because 'We Are!' sounds exactly the fucking same, and you've gotta be deaf to say otherwise.
I have to respectfully disagree with this. "We Are" is nothing like ANY Dragon Ball OP or ED that I have ever heard.

Maybe ZENKAI Power, but I haven't listened to it in awhile because I hate that ED.

I think fps_anth meant the style. They are both cheesy songs that have lyrics that do and don't relate to the shows and they are both remixed in the show itself. Also consider that the musicians for both these songs are members of JAM project.

About this whole 'It takes 227 episodes to get good', that is stupid. I'd say the best part of the series is during 31 to 206 (minus some of the easily skippable filler). The move to HD wasn't that great and made some of the arcs drag on like the Freeza arc of DBZ. Espeically when they put flashbacks into the middle of an arc just to get new viewers :/

One aspect that one no one has mentioned is the movies. While some are bad and some are stupid, i'm surprised that movies 4, 6 or 9 haven't been brought up. 4 and 9 are great movies for summing up the feel that is One Piece into a short film and 6 is an all around delight, espically since the person who directed that did some little known movies... what where they called again? The Girl Who Leapt Through Time and Summer Wars?

I will say that One Piece isn't perfect but it is certainly far better than most shonen series released today and I would say most of Dragon Ball Z (On par with the least and Dragon Ball).

Oh and one more thing. It may take a while for One Piece to get into its groove but it took 153 episodes of Dragon Ball to get into Z.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:09 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:Long post.

One Piece Episode 227 is not where One Piece gets good. There are arcs VERY GOOD before then, so don't jump the gun. But that's where it changes into something even better than Dragon Ball.

For example, one of the best arcs just takes place starting on Episode 31, the Arlong Arc. Then Arabasta and Skypiea are great, all coming before Episode 227.

Herms wrote:I just wish he'd stop trying to do emotional "death" scenes where the person/people just turn up fine once the battle is done. We know the character won't actually die, and he knows that we know, so why not just get on with the actual story?

Um, well anyway I really do enjoy One Piece a great deal, despite having a few complaints.

If you've seen Skypiea, a guy got murdered by Eneru and the priests in the beginning of the arc right on the spot.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:38 pm

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:55 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:Long post.

Well, yeah, what I meant about Episode 227 is that where it surpasses Dragon Ball, in my opinion. Before Episode 227 is great! Actually, most of my favorite arcs occur before Water 7/Enies Lobby. BUT, this is the moment where, again, in my opinion, One Piece beats Dragon Ball. That's why I said Episode 227 is where it really begins.

Now, you act like We Are is the only opening on One Piece? And that it captures the essence of One Piece? Are you kidding me? Let me show you some of the other One Piece openings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xr36cysodg (Opening 6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12WEA9EG-h0 (Opening 8 )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YjCmY-XmII (Current Opening)

And these songs do capture the feel of One Piece, too.

I'd really like to continue and actually a One Piece vs. DBZ debate would be great, but, I don't think this is the appropriate place to do it.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:04 pm

You know... I would REALLY like to keep up with this conversation... but I just can't make it through Kunzait's posts...
Does he HAVE to write an entire book to get every single Idea of his across?!.......

Although I did catch Kunzait saying something along the lines of "Yeah, I got 50 Episodes in and nothing good was happening, MEANWHILE 50 eps into DBZ and you're already into the Namek arc" etc.
Yeah, but that's not Fair. One Piece was never rebranded. Yeah, Episode 50 of DBZ you're in Namek already, but that's not Actually episode 50 of the series as a whole, it's more like episode 204. Remember, the Story actually started in Dragon Ball.
So if "The best parts of the Seires" in your opinion don't happen until the beginning of the SECOND series, meaning you're skipping 154 Episodes... How is that better than One Piece, where one of the biggest and Most Favored Story arcs by the fans, the Alabasta arc, starts On Episode 92?

And yes, this "the series doesn't get good until 227" thing is BS.
It's good all the way through, but it really hits its stride around Arlong Park.

The fact of the Matter is, Some people like One Piece, some people do not.
just because you don't like it doesn't somehow make the series Crap, it's just not to your liking, others however will find the series to be grand.

To say that every DB fan must like One Piece and Vice-versa is just erroneous.

The thing that makes these two series linked together is their both hailed in Japan, the country of Origin as the best of their days.
The Same Anime company does both, meaning right now One Piece and Dragon Ball Kai are airing in the same 1 hour time slot that Toei and Fuji are calling "Dream 9", with characters interacting in these neat Eyecatches.
Not to mention that almost all of One Piece's Cast are made up of DB Veterans. (Tanaka = Kuririn and Luffy, Nozawa = Son Goku and Dr. Kureha, Jouji Yanami = Kaio/Narrator/Babidi and Gan Fall, Furukawa = Piccolo and Portgas D. Ace, Chiba = Pilaf/Raditz and Buggy)

there's all the Dragonball x One Piece merch that's been churned out lately.

Then there's Cross Epoch. Apparently, someone at Shueisha thought there was enough similarity between the two to get the two actual actors and Cross the series over with one another.

And that's just on the JAPANESE Side of things.
Here they have the same story. Bad Edited dub that removed episodes. Got canceled on TV, picked up By Cartoon Network, Ratings were good enough so they ordered more eps, Uncut stuff started coming out.
FUNimation has both series, so even in English it's full of DB alumni.

there's just a LOT these series go together with, plain and simple.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:27 pm

Bussani wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:*snip*
You hate shounen. This reaction is to be expected.

Kunzait likes shonen, but not every shonen walking the Earth.

Scarz · Post by **Scarz** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:31 pm

ShinRogafuken wrote:Now, you act like We Are is the only opening on One Piece? And that it captures the essence of One Piece? Are you kidding me? Let me show you some of the other One Piece openings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xr36cysodg (Opening 6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12WEA9EG-h0 (Opening 8 )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YjCmY-XmII (Current Opening)

And these songs do capture the feel of One Piece, too.

You mentioned two of my favorite OP openings but I really like opening 10 "We Are" remix. But the current opening barely represent the feeling of the show. The visuals? Of course but the song? Yikes!

DemonRin wrote:You know... I would REALLY like to keep up with this conversation... but I just can't make it through Kunzait's posts...
Does he HAVE to write an entire book to get every single Idea of his across?!.......

Well, someone had to say it.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:43 pm

You know, I actually read Kunzait's posts. You have to read them to truly understand his point of view. Tbh it's a valid one that really doesn't get brought up in today's fandom. I do think it's unfair that we've had more mature titles ripped from the market in favor of more kid friendly one.

One Piece is a great show, but I actually like its manga more. But there is no way in hell I'm buying 50 volumes. Naruto is enough. On the subject of the anime, I'm buying it but at a very slow and affordable pace. It's not a title I'm running to the bank just to buy though.