Were Battle Powers Really Important?

.:PoetikaL:. · Post by **.:PoetikaL:.** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:58 pm

Bussani wrote:and to an lesser extent Kuririn, seem to be the ones most skilled at realizing when someone's power has increased, before they've even brought it all out.

Krillin seemed to know how much stronger Perfect Cell was, and he knew that inner strength of Trunks when Vegeta was fighting Perfect Cell.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:06 pm

.:PoetikaL:. wrote:
Bussani wrote:and to an lesser extent Kuririn, seem to be the ones most skilled at realizing when someone's power has increased, before they've even brought it all out.
Krillin seemed to know how much stronger Perfect Cell was, and he knew that inner strength of Trunks when Vegeta was fighting Perfect Cell.

Yeah, those are some good examples.

Another example that springs to mind is when Goku was about to fight Freeza, after Freeza said that he'd been holding back up to that point and was now going to fight for real. I think he said he was only using 50% of his power, and Goku thought he was bluffing?

Then right before anything happens, Goku just seems to be able to tell from Freeza's face, "He's not bluffing..." There's no indication that he sensed Freeza's ki rising or anything like that. To me it just seemed like he knew in his gut. Like seeing through someone's Poker face.

Of course, Kuririn knowing Trunks was hiding something isn't quite the same as that, but I think it's similar. After being in so many battles, you can sometimes tell when someone's holding back.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:53 pm

Goku also pulls a Vegeta when Super Buu becomes Kid Buu.

By "pulls a Vegeta," I mean looks at an opponent who could whup his ass, fails to sense his immense ki, and comments on his unimpressive physical appearance.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:24 am

Well, Kid buu was weaker than Super Buu both in physical presence and ki power.

Goku knew he couldn`t take on Super Buu because he implied so when he and Vegeta were inside of him.

However, he believed he might be able to take Kid buu on and defeat him. He just didn`t realize he would have much more trouble keeping up his SSJ 3 form while he was alive than he did while he was dead.

Also remember that buu is very hard to defeat not just because of his ki but also because of his regeneration. He doesn`t seem to lose any power each time he regenerates and he can regenerate from ashes, besides being able to bend his body at will and manipulate it as he sees fitting.

Thats means that even if Kid buu had the exact same ki power than Goku, he would still be a lot more difficult to defeat than Goku would.

And thats why he was still a very difficult opponent, even with ki not that impressive when compared to Super Buu`s ki.

I call pulling a Vegeta, falling to realize that the opponent`s ki is much stronger than his own or than the ki previously fought. Which isn`t the case. Kid buu`s ki was indeed weaker.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:47 am

It's funny...if it weren't for regeneration, Cell and Buu would have been killed numerous times. If nothing else got him first (like 16 ripping his tail off), Cell would have been outsmarted and killed by Goku's Shunkan Ido Kamehameha. Goku also used it to appear behind Ultra Buu and kienzan him in half before he could react. Of course, you could argue that for story reasons, they only got hit because they could regenerate..

But it goes to show that battle power isn't everything, doesn't it?

Post by **Herms** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:41 pm

I always assumed Boo just didn't devote much of his ki towards defense or something. I mean, even regular bullets pass through him at one point.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:58 pm

Herms wrote:I always assumed Boo just didn't devote much of his ki towards defense or something. I mean, even regular bullets pass through him at one point.

That makes sense since he doesn`t seem to lose any power in regenerating. So why bother?

Of course, any way you look at it, any buu still has that amazing advantage over any fighter.

.:PoetikaL:. · Post by **.:PoetikaL:.** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:23 pm

Boo's defense is by far the best in the series. Even though his stamina would suffer after being attacked for a prolong period of time, his defense against devastating beam attacks is just phenomenal.

Now this is me going off and wondering, but assuming the power growth the Saiyans experience while fighting... Couldn't one say they'd be indestructible.

Say for the sake of making things easy. Goku Vs. Krillin -Pre Raditz Arrival-

Krillin severely hurts Goku, making him (Goku) more powerful. Now, Goku Vs. Vegeta. Goku is once again being destroyed, not dead, but is hurt pretty severely. Add in training and all that to the end of Z. One could assume that with more fights to come after the end of Z... Goku and Vegeta could be the most powerful beings in the Universe. Granted they'd have trouble defeating the enemies because they are more powerful than them, but after they suffer so many beatings, once would think that they cannot be beat and/or killed by other fighters.

(Correct me if needed, because I just typed and kept going.)

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:38 pm

After the introduction of SSJ, the zenkais seem to be pretty negligible. They are still around but start to be smaller and less significant because the power of the SSJ and its development and gains in power start to far exceed it.

By the buu saga, we see that Mystic Gohan, after being beat by Gotenks buu and eating one senzu, doesn`t get any stronger. He doesn`t get a zenkai because his potential is already all out in the surface.

Which implies that there is a limit to zenkais.

Also, zenkais seem to improve just your base form. The SSJs stages multiply that base power. So when someone would reach his base power limit, without any SSJs forms, they wouldn`t be the strongest in the universe. Remember that Mystic Gohan had all his base and SSJ potential and power all out in the surface.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:29 pm

Herms wrote:I always assumed Boo just didn't devote much of his ki towards defense or something. I mean, even regular bullets pass through him at one point.

That could be it. It's just showing off to let bullets pass through you. But a kienzan in the back...even if he was defending himself, that would probably do it.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:47 pm

On Buu and my comment- I wasn't making an in-depth analysis of how the fight actually went down (though it could still be noted that Goku bit off more than he could chew).

Rather, when he and Vegeta initally took in Kid Buu, they both seemed pretty confident. Then Buu let out a measure of his power with the attack (that they weren't strong enough to even attempt to deflect) that took out Earth. Goku does want to tackle Kid Buu alone, but also makes some comments showing his uncertainty (I dont remember exactly, but somethings like not being sure but needing to try, and having to go all out). And during the fight, Buu tires him out. So, his original estimation and confidence were a bit off.

Compare to previous Z villains.
Vegeta- he knew it was an uphill struggle.
Freeza- Freeza kept his power supressed for most of it, but Goku never inwardly called the fight in his favor... until after SSJ, where he was clearly superior.
Cell- Goku knew the whole time he couldn't win.