Is Majin Buu as Strong as Super Buu?

Akira · Post by **Akira** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:05 pm

What made Kid Buu so deadly was that he didn't get tired. He had overall less ki than the absorbtion forms with Gohan, Gotenks, etc. Those forms were technically way beyond Kid Buu in terms of actual power output.

Without any absorbtions, he can regenerate instantly, and his battle power/ki never goes down. He is relentless and pure evil, that's what made him so tough to take down.

Those comparisons were correct with what you had labeled as "Option 1" I believe.

Gabool The Wild · Post by **Gabool The Wild** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:43 am

rereboy wrote:
Yamcha_krillin wrote:
rereboy wrote:
Yes, but remember that kid buu also defeated fat buu, and there is nothing to suggest that fat buu became weaker than he was prior to expelling his evil side.
.
He defeated Good Buu the weaker version of Fat Buu.

It was said after he split that some of his power went to evil buu and some to Mr.Buu
As far as I know there is nothing in the manga saying that the fat buu lost power at all when he created evil buu. All that is said is that due to the evil that was consuming him, he separated himself from his evil part.

As far as we know, he may have simply created other buu who is stronger, where he put all his evil, without becoming weaker.

All we know is that good buu is well above SSJ2 level, judging from his fight with kid buu and Vegeta fight with kid buu.

There is no definite conclusion to be made.

Personally, when I look at the fights with fat buu and good buu, I think they are on the same level. Which is also why I think that he didn`t become weaker.

I just always figured Buu splitting worked the same was as Kami and Piccolo splitting did.
I mean, just as the Good and Evil Buu's represent a side of the full Buu, Kami and Piccolo each represented a side of their merged selves. Piccolo was stronger than Kami, so I'd assume that it's possible that one half of Buu could be stronger than the other.

Also, when Piccolo and Kami merged, they became a new and more powerful being, while they were each just a different piece of the same being. That is why I believe Good Buu is weaker than Fat Buu: He's not complete.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:46 am

Gabool The Wild wrote:I just always figured Buu splitting worked the same was as Kami and Piccolo splitting did.
I mean, just as the Good and Evil Buu's represent a side of the full Buu, Kami and Piccolo each represented a side of their merged selves. Piccolo was stronger than Kami, so I'd assume that it's possible that one half of Buu could be stronger than the other.

I thought the same sort of thing. Technically when Kami and Piccolo originally split, they may have been exactly the same strength, but I suppose there's no rule saying they have to be. Especially since personality, mental focus and emotional state make a difference to how big your ki is, so the evil/old Buu that came out may have been stronger just because of that. Which, in turn, could have made Super Buu stronger still after absorbing Fat Buu.

Gabool The Wild · Post by **Gabool The Wild** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:51 am

Bussani wrote:
Gabool The Wild wrote:I just always figured Buu splitting worked the same was as Kami and Piccolo splitting did.
I mean, just as the Good and Evil Buu's represent a side of the full Buu, Kami and Piccolo each represented a side of their merged selves. Piccolo was stronger than Kami, so I'd assume that it's possible that one half of Buu could be stronger than the other.
I thought the same sort of thing. Technically when Kami and Piccolo originally split, they may have been exactly the same strength, but I suppose there's no rule saying they have to be. Especially since personality, mental focus and emotional state make a difference to how big your ki is, so the evil/old Buu that came out may have been stronger just because of that. Which, in turn, could have made Super Buu stronger still after absorbing Fat Buu.

Is there anything that says whether or not Daimao was as strong as Kami when they first split? If they were, then why didn't Kami just go and try to take him out?

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:56 am

Gabool The Wild wrote:If they were, then why didn't Kami just go and try to take him out?

Because that would kill him, and Kami says that a god isn't allowed to commit suicide.

I'm not sure if they were exactly the same strength or not at first...but there might be a few lines to imply it. Such as Kami saying that, "even though we were once one, you have become far more powerful than I." I have this feeling that somewhere stated what Kami's battle power was, and it was similar to Daimao's one of 260 listed in Daizenshuu 7, but don't quote me on that.

Gabool The Wild · Post by **Gabool The Wild** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:04 am

Bussani wrote:
Gabool The Wild wrote:If they were, then why didn't Kami just go and try to take him out?
Because that would kill him, and Kami says that a god isn't allowed to commit suicide.

I'm not sure if they were exactly the same strength or not at first...but there might be a few lines to imply it. Such as Kami saying that, "even though we were once one, you have become far more powerful than I." I have this feeling that somewhere stated what Kami's battle power was, and it was similar to Daimao's one of 260 listed in Daizenshuu 7, but don't quote me on that.

Ah, that would explain it. Wouldn't Kami only be around Daimao's power before he regained his youth, though? Couldn't the "you have become more powerful than I." quote could be Kami talking to Daimao after regaining his youth and increasing his power? I'm beginning to think they were both just at the same power. Still, that wouldn't contradict with Good Buu being weaker than Fat Buu if we were to compare the situations.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:09 am

Gabool The Wild wrote:
Bussani wrote:
Gabool The Wild wrote:If they were, then why didn't Kami just go and try to take him out?
Because that would kill him, and Kami says that a god isn't allowed to commit suicide.

I'm not sure if they were exactly the same strength or not at first...but there might be a few lines to imply it. Such as Kami saying that, "even though we were once one, you have become far more powerful than I." I have this feeling that somewhere stated what Kami's battle power was, and it was similar to Daimao's one of 260 listed in Daizenshuu 7, but don't quote me on that.
Ah, that would explain it. Wouldn't Kami only be around Daimao's power before he regained his youth, though? Couldn't the "you have become more powerful than I." quote could be Kami talking to Daimao after regaining his youth and increasing his power? I'm beginning to think they were both just at the same power. Still, that wouldn't contradict with Good Buu being weaker than Fat Buu if we were to compare the situations.

I don't think Kami made the comment about Piccolo being superior to him until the Cell saga, when they were thinking about fusing. But Ma Junior Piccolo had already grown stronger than him, I think.

And hm, Daimao with his youth restored could very well be stronger than Kami, even if they'd started at the same strength, since Kami didn't get his youth restored.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:09 am

Kami & Popo were stronger than Young Daimao.

I also think Bussani is referring to what Kami said in regards to Piccolo Jr's power. He never really made a direct statement about Daimao's power, aside from it being less than Piccolo Jr's power.

Edit: Bussani got it. However, after Nappa wiped Piccolo out--Kami told Popo that he was happy Piccolo "finally surpassed him", or along those lines.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:11 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Kami & Popo were stronger than Young Daimao.

That is kind of weird, but it makes sense, since Goku had trouble against Popo even though he'd just defeated Daimao.. I guess it wasn't totally raw power, but still.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:12 am

Bussani wrote:
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Kami & Popo were stronger than Young Daimao.
That is kind of weird, but it makes sense, since Goku had trouble against Popo even though he'd just defeated Daimao.. I guess it wasn't totally raw power, but still.

Goku charges at Kami, Kami flicks him away with his finger.

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:14 am

Bussani wrote:He couldn't even beat Kid Buu with SSJ3 though. Unless dead-SSJ3 Goku had a much better chance. Or maybe Kid Buu is stronger than Fat Buu was?

Bingo. Or at least that's what I think I believe.

I skimmed a few volumes of the manga, but I can't seem to find that being mentioned. Do you know roughly when he said it, by any chance?

Volume 40/24. He gave that statement to Piccolo after using SSj3 for the first time to hold off Majin Boo. However, he never actually told Boo that someone "stronger than himself" was coming to fight him, but that's what he tells Piccolo. Interesting, eh?

Well, we never did see SSJ Gotenks fight Fat Buu, so it's hard to know how they would measure up. Also, when Buu transformed after the old one ate the fat one, Piccolo comments that his form had changed to a more 'battle suited' one and he was now 'pure rage'. He doesn't make any mention that Buu had become more powerful, the way they usually do. That's not really evidence, but it's worth noting.

Well, using the logic provided here, I believe it's safe to assume that (and excuse me for using "math" here):

Goku stated that someone stronger than himself would come. He was talking about SSj Gotenks (pre-RoSaT). We're told later by Goku that he could've beaten Majin Boo with SSj3, but didn't. So SSj Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) doesn't have to be stronger than Goku to beat Boo, just equal. And besides, Goku was taking an educated guess on how strong Gotenks would turn out. So...

SSj Gotenks (pre-RoSat) ~ SSj3 Goku

Gotenks goes into the RoSaT and trains, drastically increasing his power (stated by Piccolo), and also gained the SSj3 transformation. Logically we have:

SSj3 Gotenks > SSj3 Goku

When "Shin" Boo and SSj3 Gotenks fought, they were equal until the very end when Gotenks pulled ahead. So we get:

SSj3 Gotenks ~ "Shin" Boo

And therefore:

"Shin" Boo > SSj3 Goku

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:16 am

Rocketman wrote:
Bussani wrote:
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Kami & Popo were stronger than Young Daimao.
That is kind of weird, but it makes sense, since Goku had trouble against Popo even though he'd just defeated Daimao.. I guess it wasn't totally raw power, but still.
Goku charges at Kami, Kami flicks him away with his finger.

Well yeah, that too. Popo says that Kami is superior to him, so if Goku couldn't even get past him then...

I do wonder why Kami is so much stronger than Daimao was, I suppose. Maybe because he was actually doing stuff for 300 years rather than sitting in a rice cooker?

Edit:

Tyro wrote:*snip*

Makes sense.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:16 am

Yeah. Goku lacked control against Popo, but a fully healed Goku got finger flicked away by Kami. I think he was much stronger at that point.

Goku's also pretty good at understanding how much power someone has, and he admits that Popo is pretty powerful. Once Popo mentions that he learned it from Kami--Goku eventually questions why Kami never took care of Daimao for them.

To me, that implies that Popo is strong enough to be considered capable of defeating Daimao. We know Kami is above Popo, so that would also make Kami stronger than Daimao. I guess it all depends on how you see Goku's power in comparison to Daimao's power. I think Goku was weaker than Popo & Kami before his training with them--and usually they start out weaker than the guys who are training them and surpass them when they're finished.

I often saw Goku & Daimao as equals, so that's why I think Kami is stronger, along with Popo.

Edit: I'm a slow poster. I also agree that Kami had the advantage in power mainly because he wasn't in a secluded object for so many yrs.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:50 am

Bussani wrote:I do wonder why Kami is so much stronger than Daimao was

Because King Piccolo was just the evil part of Kami, and Kami didn't have much evil in him.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:21 am

Rocketman wrote:
Bussani wrote:I do wonder why Kami is so much stronger than Daimao was
Because King Piccolo was just the evil part of Kami, and Kami didn't have much evil in him.

That makes sense. In Buu's case then, it wouldn't be surprising if the evil half he spewed out was stronger than the good part. He is an evil demon spawn thingy.

Teclo · Post by **Teclo** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:51 am

Wow, this is pretty weird. I always through Kid Buu was like the Buu equivalent of Mystic Gohan - like "his true self" in the Buddhist sense, meaning far stronger than the non-true selves. It's weird to hear that he's actually only just stronger than Fat Buu, and all other Buu's are stronger. I guess it's just because the Buu saga is the part of DBZ I've seen least, particularly the latter stages.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:06 am

Super Boo is stronger than Fat Boo. Multiple events in the manga clearly show this.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:05 am

When Fat Boo gets absorbed by Skinny Boo, he releases a ton of "Boo Gas" and merges with it instead of letting it become Kid Boo and absorb him. So I see Super Boo as being Skinny + Fat + Kid, not just Skinny + Fat. That's why Super - Fat = Kid; Kid = Skinny + Boo Gas.

So since Kid is stronger than Fat prior to losing Skinny, I think we know that Super Boo has to be stronger than 2x Fat Boo.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:41 pm

omegacwa wrote:Well, Kid Buu has to be stronger than Fat Buu because Vegeta at SSJ2 did pretty decent against Fat Buu to the point where arguably if Buu didn't have regenerative abilities Vegeta could have defeated him, but Vegeta got Trounced by Kid Buu.

I always got the idea that Fat Boo was just toying with Vegeta. Boo didn't gain any power from his regeneration and he stated that Vegeta's attack hurt a tiny bit. Plus, even during Vegeta's attack on Boo, Piccolo was still wondering how powerful Boo could be. And after Boo's angry explosion, Vegeta states that Boo was powerful and immortal and Piccolo said that Vegeta wasn't a match for Boo. And if Vegeta was so much stronger than Boo before being injured, why did he resort to sacrificing himself to defeat him? Surely it shouldn't take that much for him to resort to killing himself against an opponent who was weaker than him. And if Vegeta (and Goku as well, who stated that he was just as strong as Vegeta) was stronger than Boo as a SSJ2, then why would Goku say that he wouldn't have a chance against Boo and have to resort to getting Goten and Trunks to learn the Fusion Technique? And why would he have to transform into Super Saiyan 3 to fight Boo? Vegeta got trounced by Kid Boo as much as he did by Fat Boo.

Maybe I went on for a bit there, but you know, had to give my 2 cents. I do agree that Super Boo is the clear superior of Fat Boo & Kid Boo.

A-dono · Post by **A-dono** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:00 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but after Anorexic Buu turns Fat Buu into chocolate, eats him, then becomes Super Buu and takes off toward the Lookout at warp speed, doesn't Piccolo say that Buu got a whole lot stronger? It's been awhile since I've seen the episode and I'm not sure if it's in the manga, but I'm pretty sure he said something to that effect.

I might be wrong, though.

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Is Majin Buu as Strong as Super Buu?

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