Goku and Android 18's Sword Resistance

[Super Sonic]

With guns it can depend on the gun's power, because that point-blank shotgun blast from Blue would've killed Goku. Same if he took another blast from White's Hyper gun.

[Bussani]

but really, it should all just be a matter of generating energy into a part of your body to resist against an attack.

Yes.

I believe Goku also did the same thing when Bulma shot him with her gun. Of course, he did have the extent of chi knowledge or power that Super Saiyan Goku or #18 had, but he was at least able to put up some sort of energy-sourced resistance against the bullet.

That's fine for an in-universe explanation, but I mostly think it was just a joke. Plus, Goku's head probably has more natural resistance than the rest of him.

Also, with Trunks' sword. King Cold made the fatal mistake by thinking that it was Trunks' sword that enabled him to destroy Freeza. Trunks, of course, proved that this theory was wrong by blocking the sword's strike and subsequently killing Cold. My theory, a theory which I am sure many other DB fans share, is that Trunks' sword alone is nothing. If someone like Bulma tried to kill Freeza with it, it wouldn't do anything. So the theory is that Trunks generated his own chi into the sword. I don't know why Trunks even carried the sword in the first place, though. No other Z-Fighter fought with a weapon, and he would've fared just as well as if he had not used a sword. If it was his own power fueling the sword, why use it when he could fight with his own power? Maybe Toriyama just thought that it was cool to have a warrior with a weapon -- and I thought it was pretty cool too.

Well, Goku did used to use Nyoi'bo.

Yajirobe also uses a sword pretty effectively. He cut off Vegeta's tail while he was an Oozaru, and slashed through his armor to presumably injure his back, considering the way Vegeta reacted. Kuririn was also going to use the same sword to finish Vegeta off when he couldn't fight back anymore.

[Rocketman]

Yajirobe also uses a sword pretty effectively. He cut off Vegeta's tail while he was an Oozaru

Yajirobe - ~1,000

Oozaru Vegeta - ~180,000

Hm.

[Bussani]

Yajirobe also uses a sword pretty effectively. He cut off Vegeta's tail while he was an Oozaru

Yajirobe - ~1,000

Oozaru Vegeta - ~180,000

Hm.

That's pretty effective, wouldn't you say? 180 times stronger and the sword still worked.

[Kroni_Hunter]

So why didn't anybody ever take out Frieza in his sleep, if any schmuk with a nice sharp sword could do it?

[Bussani]

So why didn't anybody ever take out Freeza in his sleep, if any schmuk with a nice sharp sword could do it?

Why didn't anyone who could make a Kienzan style attack ever take him out in his sleep, since we know they can cut him? For that matter, why don't all dictators and warlords get stabbed in their sleep?

I would imagine he would wake up, anyway. He may not be able to sense ki, but that doesn't mean he had no senses at all. All the Earthlings got by before learning to sense ki, and even Vegeta on his first visit to Earth dodged an attack Kuririn threw at him from behind. I doubt someone would be able to sneak into Tao Pai Pai's room and kill him without him noticing, either.

[Hujio]

So why didn't anybody ever take out Freeza in his sleep, if any schmuk with a nice sharp sword could do it?

That sounds like a great plot! Everyone could just go around killing everyone else in their sleep, that way we're left with only weak characters 'cause they'd obviously kill all the strong ones first, and the series could take place at night... Um, yeah, I wonder why Toriyama didn't do that.

Is this whole thing really going to turn into a PL debate?! Does all this really have to make sense... swords cut things, ki blasts blow things up, a bunch can be blocked, and Toriyama based all this on what... plot development. Why could Yajirobe cut Vegeta's tail? Because Toriyama needed a way to get Vegeta back into his normal form. I don't mean to take anything away from this debate, and I know people hate the answer "Toriyama didn't think it all the way through", but that's just the way it is. That's great if you want to try and justify these minute details for yourself, but if you want the honest truth to why most of the things happen in the series, it's because Toriyama needed them to happen to move the story along. I mean, you can't honesly tell me that Toriyama sat around and thought to himself, "I'll have Yajirobe cut off Vegeta's tail even though I know he doesn't have enough ki to actually do it within the context of this world I've created, but oh well, no one will ever notice if I do it anyway, right?"

Anyway, carry on... as if I were never here... *slowly disappears into the mist*

[Herms]

Maybe Freeza never sleeps?

[Bussani]

I don't mean to take anything away from this debate, and I know people hate the answer "Toriyama didn't think it all the way through", but that's just the way it is. That's great if you want to try and justify these minute details for yourself, but if you want the honest truth to why most of the things happen in the series, it's because Toriyama needed them to happen to move the story along.

I don't know about everyone on the board, but I do understand and accept that. Like you say, I just like to justify things if possible. It's almost like practice for avoiding leaving such logic holes in anything I write myself.

Maybe Freeza never sleeps?

I was going to suggest that, too. The guy doesn't even need air.

[caejones]

Freeza probably sleeps in his suppressed form. I almost wonder if him getting stabbed while asleep would cause him to involuntarily transform, but that's just speculating. Though it provides an amusing image of an assassin getting flung into a wall when Freeza's body expands... Heh.

And the forehead is a pretty hard part of the body compared to other parts (like a tail). Add the amazing strength of our characters to that, and that Goku Krillin and Roshi take shots to the head isn't that far-fetched compared to like, a nail-bomb to the groin?

[Dayspring]

I really just prefer the idea of "The stronger you are, the less vulnerable you become." Thus we get the bullets not necessarily killing strong people in non-gag scenarios, and the sword breaking against #18, but not Goku.

For example:

1) Goku channels all his strength into his finger, whereas Trunks channels all his strength into the muscles responsible for swinging the sword. Because the strengths are relatively equal, the sword doesn't break and Goku doesn't have his finger chopped off.

2) Android #18 uses an unknown amount of strength to hold her arm in a blocking position, whereas Trunks channels all his strength into the muscles responsible for swinging the sword. Because the stength of the block greatly overpowers the strength of the swing, and because the there's no strength in the sword itself, the sword breaks.

So because #18's block is stronger instead of almost equal to the strength of the swing added to the durability of the sword, the sword breaks. If it were a punch, the person's fist would hurt (or even break). This also explains why Yajirobi could cut Vegeta's tail: no strength was channeled into the tail to withstand an attack -it is not equally strong as the rest of the body.

[Kendamu]

I just refuse to believe Goku can be killed with conventional weapons.

If you just absolutely refuse to believe it then what's the point of even arguing it out with you? Are you just doing this to try to act cool in front of "Daizex enthusiasts" (whatever that means). It seems that you know Toriyama on a first name basis and have lunch with him all the time, though. Why don't you ask him?


EDIT: On-topic with everyone else willing to figure it out, though, I think the idea goes back to how you see those Kung Fu monks take swords and spears to their torsos and throats without being stabbed and killed due to rigorous conditioning and Qigong (Chi Work). Even as a gag manga with all the obvious Chinese influence, that's where I think the idea stems from. Of course, it's immediately taken to ridiculous levels but it still applies. By the time Trunks cut up Freeza, it's just a more serious, dramatic, and cool-looking extension of the same idea.

However, I thought that a long time ago fandom came to the conclusion that it wasn't the weapon so much as it was how powerful the person wielding it was and that the whole thing was for the sake of establishing the Shonen Measuring Stick (TM) for that arc.

- Freeza is super powerful.

- Trunks cuts up Freeza and establishes that he may be much more powerful.

- King Cold thinks it's because of the sword and tries to cut Trunks. Trunks isn't cut and establishes that it's actually Trunks' power and not the sword.

- Goku blocks Trunks's sword repeatedly and that establishes Goku as much more powerful than Trunks.

- #18 shatters Trunks' sword with a block, establishing that at that point not even Goku could fend off #17 and #18 if he were well and that makes the situation even that much more dire.

It's all plot junk that we'd normally discuss out-of-continuity.

[russ869]

Trunks's extermination of Freeza and his father showed that it wasn't the sword that was important. After all, while Freeza was severed instantly by it, Trunks was completely unscratched when Freeza's father tried to use it on him. Basically, like everything in Dragonball it's about the strength of your Ki. Trunks must channel his Ki into the sword (maybe in a similar slicing fashion to the Kienzan). Because Freeza's father didn't have nearly as strong of Ki as Trunks, the sword couldn't cut him. Just like a normal sword couldn't cut Goku even as a little kid. Basically, there is nothing special about the sword.

[rereboy]

Yajirobe also uses a sword pretty effectively. He cut off Vegeta's tail while he was an Oozaru

Yajirobe - ~1,000

Oozaru Vegeta - ~180,000

Hm.

Vegeta had already taken a lot of damage so his power level was no longer 18 000. It had dropped due to injuries and ki use. Therefore his Oozaru at that point is not 180 000 but lower.

[Kendamu]

Yajirobe also uses a sword pretty effectively. He cut off Vegeta's tail while he was an Oozaru

Yajirobe - ~1,000

Oozaru Vegeta - ~180,000

Hm.

Vegeta had already taken a lot of damage so his power level was no longer 18,000. It had dropped due to injuries and ki use. Therefore his Oozaru at that point is not 18,000 but lower.

At the same time, though, Yajirobe's sword skill is probably unfathomably higher than Trunks'. Also, Kamehameplot!

[chevalier]

i think it is very impossible that Son Goku and Android 18's flesh can be cut open with swords.

[Kaboom]

i think it is very impossible that Son Goku and Android 18's flesh can be cut open with swords.

Hi, welcome to the forum. Just in case you hadn't noticed, the last post in this thread prior to yours was from October of last year. We try to discourage "necroposting" like this, because the sudden revival of old threads can be confusing and cause extra work for us moderators. There's no real problem here, but try to keep it in mind in the future.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Yajirobe also uses a sword pretty effectively. He cut off Vegeta's tail while he was an Oozaru

Yajirobe - ~1,000

Oozaru Vegeta - ~180,000

Hm.

It's not like Oozaru Vegeta's tail is ultra-powerful or anything. Although Vegeta did slap Goku with his tail and it did some damage to him. But you could put that down to him being terribly weakened by that time in the fight, or he was off-guard.

So why didn't anybody ever take out Freeza in his sleep, if any schmuk with a nice sharp sword could do it?

Why didn't anyone who could make a Kienzan style attack ever take him out in his sleep, since we know they can cut him? For that matter, why don't all dictators and warlords get stabbed in their sleep?

Perhaps, because, they were scared that if they got caught, they'd be for the chop.

Also, wouldn't some dictators and warlords have bodyguards? Not to say that Freeza would need a bodyguard, and I don't think he would have gotten one, since he'd probably be all arrogant and say "Me? A bodyguard? Why should the great Freeza need a bodyguard to defend petty cowards who wouldn't dare face me when I am awake? Muhahahaha! ).

[Bussani]

It's not like Oozaru Vegeta's tail is ultra-powerful or anything.

So, you think that Yajirobe's sword would cut his tail off just fine, but would bounce off any other part of his body like he's indestructible?

[hleV]

Body resistance seems to depend on current user's powerlevel. Remember Vegeta asking Krillin to shoot him down in order to then be healed and receive Zenkai. Krillin said that he couldn't have done it since he was too weak. But Vegeta said that he'd lower his powerlevel so it would work.

Goku focused ki into his finger so Trunks' sword did no effect to it.
C18's body was greatly improved by Dr. Gero, Trunks' sword breaking wasn't an effect of ki.