Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

[Innagadadavida]

I'll never understand why people cling to the dub simply because it's what they first expirienced.

If you get interested in something enough to be passionate about it, you'd think that you would gravitate towards the artwork as the original artist intended it.

I'm sure there are a few who cling to the dub because that's what they saw first, but you're acting like it's something you see every day. There are far more casual, "oh I watched this as a kid, look season one's only $24.99" fans than those who obsess about what food cat really loves. I would say that it's pretty natural to seek out more and more of something you like a lot. And, well, eventually the die hard fan who was introduced through FUNimation's dub will learn about the Japanese version of the show, or at least the English manga. That's just simply where you're going to get a more pure experience, more accurate information, ext. If they're really "die-hard," they will learn that cat doesn't necessarily love food.

Also, there's really no point in lashing out at Rocketman. He may have argued with you, but it wasn't in defense of the dub. He's a manga purist.

[saiyangerl]

I'll never understand why people cling to the dub simply because it's what they first expirienced.

If you get interested in something enough to be passionate about it, you'd think that you would gravitate towards the artwork as the original artist intended it.

With DBZ, from the perspective of the original artwork, the dub is pretty objectively horrible. The script is wrong and the voices are poorly acted. There's not much more a dub can screw up.

Yeah, I'm mystified, too.

I grew up with the Ocean cast dub and the Funimation cast dub, too, but I also grew up researching DBZ on the internet, browsing sites like Vegetto EX's page (before it was called Daizenshuu EX), Planet Namek, Big Bang Attack, DBZ Uncensored, and so many others, downloading clips, buying third generation VHS fansubs from crappy fan operations, poking fun at the dub endlessly, laughing at its inconsistencies, only ever enjoying it for the "so good it's bad" parts and generally being dissatisfied with the voices.

And I wasn't alone, either. It seemed like all the DBZ fans that were watching it at the same time I was felt the same way.

Where are these fans coming from that cling so much to the English dubbed version? Were they the minority back then or was I? Or are they a new generation of fans? I can recall watching DBZ with a friend so many afternoons, and we'd pick it apart for the obvious things the dub was doing wrong.

But, I realize, it's a mistake to apply my personal experience to everybody else. Clearly there are a lot of dub fans. I could argue that the dub is not really the same show, but I've done so to exhaustion.

I'm just curious as to why me and so many other people went on with their fandom (and mostly moved onto other anime), shunning the dub, while so many others did not.

I am not a new DBZ fan. I have been a fan since back in the day when the Ocean dub first came out. I did all the internet researching and went to all those sites too. I found the information interesting and good to know and I bought some fansubs myself as well as watched clips on the internet. I just prefer the dub. The differences people complain about really just don't bug me so much. I don't mind watching the original but again I just prefer the dub. I am actually thinking about getting the remastered sets to have all the audio options. Not the Dragon Boxes since they don't include the audio like it was aired on TV. So I do have an appreciation for the original as well. I have not come across anyone in person that was a sub fan outside of the internet. People I have met in person had only been exposed to the dub.


EDIT: Oh and I forgot to add that I haven't really gotten into any other anime besides Tenchi because I just don't have the time and I like DBZ so much and that satisfies me. I think I only got into Tenchi because it was on before or after DBZ on Toonami. And for Tenchi I don't have a preference for the dub or original I can watch either for that one. Just depends on my mood.

[isucamper]

It's not objective if you're viewing it from the thing it's being compared against.

You view things perspectives. You cannot view things without perspective. From the perspective of the original artwork, the dub is objectively horrible. There is nothing wrong with how I've stated this. It would be like saying "The Spanish language is objectively useless from the perspective of English only speakers." If the dub translation was correct, and if it was well acted, then it would not be objectively horrible from the perspective of the original artwork.

I'm saying the Iliad is supposed to be presented as an hours-long poem sung from memory in Ancient Greek.

All this writing, in the language of the barbarians no less, omitting all the rhythm and experience of the original! It is simply disrespectful!

Um... the Illiad translation (at least the one I have) is translated exactly as an hours long poem. If I chose to, I could sing it with rhythm and experience while playing my lute to a gaggle of peasant children.

I can't believe you're comparing the Funimation Dub of Dragonball Z to a 400 year old translation of classic Homer that has been contributed to for hundreds of years by scholars and historians. Do you really think the quality of Funimation's work is anywhere near the same universe? I want to think that somewhere deep down, dub fans are intelligent, insightful people... but you're not helping my view of the world.

[NeptuneKai]

Um... the Illiad translation (at least the one I have) is translated exactly as an hours long poem. If I chose to, I could sing it with rhythm and experience while playing my lute to a gaggle of peasant children.

We really need a "best of Daizex" thread for quotes like this.

[Innagadadavida]

You view things perspectives. You cannot view things without perspective. From the perspective of the original artwork, the dub is objectively horrible. There is nothing wrong with how I've stated this. It would be like saying "The Spanish language is objectively useless from the perspective of English only speakers." If the dub translation was correct, and if it was well acted, then it would not be objectively horrible from the perspective of the original artwork.

The Spanish language is not useless from the perspective of an English only speaker. In fact, an English only speaker would find the Spanish language to be quite useful when attempting to communicate with somebody who's speaking Spanish.

Ignoring your poor analogy, let's just use dictionary.com to define "objective," shall we?
Objective - adjective
"Not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.

Now, with that in mind, are you going to tell me that you were using "objective" in the proper context?

I want to think that somewhere deep down, dub fans are intelligent, insightful people... but you're not helping my view of the world.

First of all, I doubt you want to see dub fans as intelligent insightful people. Second of all, and again, Rocketman is not a dub fan, he's a manga purist who gets some his naming convention from US versions of Dragon Ball video games.

Also, notice that I'm not arguing with any of your points. I'm a fan of the dub. I have no interest in debating this with you. In fact, I agree with you. This script is inaccurate, the music is ill-fitting to the original tone, and in some places the acting is fucking terrible. I'm not about to defend something that I know is not worth defending. I arguing with you because what you're saying is nonsensical or stupid. Not only that, but you're preaching to the choir here at Daizenshuu EX when you say things like that.

[FuniYamcha]

Hmm, if Mike is currently trying to watch GT and comes back to see the dub vs. sub rage-a-thon back again, he may in fact murder everyone Super Buu style. Especially if the insults grow at an exponential rate as they normally do with these topics.

[Innagadadavida]

Hmm, if Mike is currently trying to watch GT and comes back to see the dub vs. sub rage-a-thon back again, he may in fact murder everyone Super Buu style. Especially if the insults grow at an exponential rate as they normally do with these topics.

We should have a sticky called "Sub vs. Dub Mega Thread." Then in it are just a few posts that say:
"Sub is the only way to go."
"No it's not STFU."
"Go to hell."
"No you go to hell."
"Rinse and repeat"
LOCKED!

Y'know, that way any time this discussion comes back, somebody can just link to the "Sub vs. Dub Mega Thread."

[NeptuneKai]

Hmm, if Mike is currently trying to watch GT and comes back to see the dub vs. sub rage-a-thon back again, he may in fact murder everyone Super Buu style. Especially if the insults grow at an exponential rate as they normally do with these topics.

We should have a sticky called "Sub vs. Dub Mega Thread." Then in it are just a few posts that say:
"Sub is the only way to go."
"No it's not STFU."
"Go to hell."
"No you go to hell."
"Rinse and repeat"
LOCKED!

Y'know, that way any time this discussion comes back, somebody can just link to the "Sub vs. Dub Mega Thread."

I don't know if you were joking but that's really not a half bad idea.

[penguintruth]

cat doesn't necessarily love food.

Best line in this thread.

Also, saiyangerl, thanks for the info. I'm genuinely interested in other people's backgrounds with the show, especially those that differ from mine. I always just assumed most people had the same experience I did, but it's a big fandom.

I'll just judge you in my mind, is all.

[Innagadadavida]

I don't know if you were joking but that's really not a half bad idea.

One among a few. I've also thought we should have a sticky called "What's your favorite *insert person/place/thing/event here*" with one post that says "All possibilities," LOCKED. Then another that's called "Is GT Cannon?" - "No" LOCKED.

[isucamper]

Now, with that in mind, are you going to tell me that you were using "objective" in the proper context?

... yes? Are you saying that if I (an English only speaker) were in Mexico City, and really, really had to use the bathroom, that Spanish wouldn't be useless to me?

Second of all, and again, Rocketman is not a dub fan, he's a manga purist who gets some his naming convention from US versions of Dragon Ball video games.

That's great, then he needs to not be so intentionally obtuse. I didn't know what the heck he was talking about in his initial reply.

I'm going to quit now before contributing any more to this debate and pissing off the mods more than we have, but let me just state for the record: Homer should never... ever... ever be used to justify a position in a debate about the American version of a Japanese cartoon. Ever.

[LeprikanGT]

I LOVE the Dub. I don't speak Japanese but I have watched the show start to finish in Japanese and the Dub and I am in love with the Faulconer music over the japanese soundtrack.

[Ultimate_DB_Fan]

I should probably start a new topic here, but will ask, do you think guys who only watch the dub have their anime senses in neutral or off?

If I read your question correctly...I think dub-only fans do owe it to themselves to watch the series at least once in Japanese. That way, when characters start talking about sensing 'energy,' they know that the Z-Fighters are really talking about ki, etc.
Also, I did state that we should all keep things civil. I guess that was asking for too much...

[Super Sonic]

I should probably start a new topic here, but will ask, do you think guys who only watch the dub have their anime senses in neutral or off?

If I read your question correctly...I think dub-only fans do owe it to themselves to watch the series at least once in Japanese. That way, when characters start talking about sensing 'energy,' they know that the Z-Fighters are really talking about ki, etc.
Also, I did state that we should all keep things civil. I guess that was asking for too much...

What I mean is that a lot of anime fans and guys who only watch 1-2 series wach anime differently than they do American cartoons. And by having anime senses off, I'm assuming guys who watch the dub enjoy it more when they watch like they would an American cartoon.

Though do watch both, while watched certain parts of the series in one language more than the other.

[OutlawTorn]

I was wondering if there are any members here who specifically listen to the dub version of the entire series and don't bother with the original Japanese version at all? Basically, DB, DBZ, and DBGT completely dubbed.
If you do, why?

Basically, I would say yes. With DBZ, I go for English dialogue with Japanese soundtrack. Since the GT dub soundtrack isn't as annoying as Faulconer's DBZ score (the non-rap stuff, anyway), I can watch GT with both English options just fine.

As for why, it really comes down to my not being Japanese (nor being able to understand the language) and preferring to not have to rely on subtitles if there is a dub available. If the dub is excruciatingly horrible, on the other hand, I will opt for subtitles but, in my opinion, the Dragon Ball dubs do not sink to that level, particularly since the redub.

I will watch the subtitled Japanese dub if I'm in the mood to do so, though I find some of the voices annoying (like Goku's) so it doesn't make me want to go out of my way to watch it like that.

[Adamant]

What I mean is that a lot of anime fans and guys who only watch 1-2 series wach anime differently than they do American cartoons. And by having anime senses off, I'm assuming guys who watch the dub enjoy it more when they watch like they would an American cartoon.

"Anime senses"? "Watch it like they would an American cartoon"?

...what? This post makes no sense.

[Herms]

Are "anime senses" what you get after being bitten by a radioactive anime?

[NeptuneKai]

Are "anime senses" what you get after being bitten by a radioactive anime?

Jumping Japanimation,my anime senses are tingling!

[Super Sonic]

Are "anime senses" what you get after being bitten by a radioactive anime?

Jumping Japanimation,my anime senses are tingling!

Nearly made me fall out of my seat.

What I mean is (and this refers to those whom English is their first language) when a lot of guys who are into anime and the whole language choices, watch a dubbed series, they look for things to whether it is a good dub or a bad dub, like voices, music changes, etc. When watching US cartoons, they tend to not think about those sort of things that you would at an anime dub. Watching like an American cartoon means you don't differentiate an anime dub from an American cartoon, and don't think about how the voices sound or comparing to Japanese version. Just watch the cartoon and you either like or dislike it. Will say it comes in handy when you watch dubs that didn't age too well. Watch like any other cartoon can be more enjoyable, and that's what I'm saying.

[jjgp1112]

Are "anime senses" what you get after being bitten by a radioactive anime?

Jumping Japanimation,my anime senses are tingling!

Nearly made me fall out of my seat.

What I mean is (and this refers to those whom English is their first language) when a lot of guys who are into anime and the whole language choices, watch a dubbed series, they look for things to whether it is a good dub or a bad dub, like voices, music changes, etc. When watching US cartoons, they tend to not think about those sort of things that you would at an anime dub. Watching like an American cartoon means you don't differentiate an anime dub from an American cartoon, and don't think about how the voices sound or comparing to Japanese version. Just watch the cartoon and you either like or dislike it. Will say it comes in handy when you watch dubs that didn't age too well. Watch like any other cartoon can be more enjoyable, and that's what I'm saying.

That's exactly how I watch all anime dubs. I don't look for accuracy or any of that shit. I just watch it to enjoy it.