Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
OutlawTorn
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Post by OutlawTorn » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:27 pm

worldmonsters wrote:Also, you are NOT a die-hard fan if you criticize others for not enjoying the version you watch. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but don't bash others for having a different one than you.

btw, I'm not calling myself a better fan than anyone else for enjoying all versions
I really agree with this as it is how I view the whole preference issue. Yes, this particular site focuses on the original Japanese version, but it is not necessary for what appears like "elitist cliques" jumping down upon dub fans and mercilessly tearing down what they enjoy. It all reeks of a sense of entitlement and a superiority complex, which is just sad. I respect that the majority of people here prefer the original, why is it so unreasonable to ask them to respect that I prefer the dub, even though I am not opposed to watching the original should I choose to do so? How does that preference, in any way, hurt die hard fans of the original Japanese version?

I really couldn't care less if someone doesn't like the dub, because I don't need to justify my viewing preferences to anybody and if anybody has a problem with which version I prefer, well, it's their problem, not mine. I know the dub is far from perfect, but I have better uses for my time an energy than to get bent out of shape over it, especially now that it has improved.

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Post by Herms » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:27 pm

Lance Freeman wrote:I guess it's just a convenience factor. It would take more time and effort for me to learn Japanese than it would to just watch the dub.
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Post by penguintruth » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:34 pm

OutlawTorn wrote:I know the dub is far from perfect, but I have better uses for my time an energy than to get bent out of shape over it, especially now that it has improved.
Enlighten me. How has it improved? Better scripting? Better voices?

I have to disagree with either of those, especially the former factor. As far as I can see, the only way it's improved is by not cutting footage any longer.

Also, I have difficulty respecting fans of the dub, because the dub isn't really Dragon Ball Z.
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Post by MCDaveG » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:52 pm

Herms wrote:
Lance Freeman wrote:I guess it's just a convenience factor. It would take more time and effort for me to learn Japanese than it would to just watch the dub.
Somewhere, Daimao is crying.
You have guts Herms, to leave Japan and live in USA :lol:
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Post by B » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:53 pm

OutlawTorn wrote:
worldmonsters wrote:Also, you are NOT a die-hard fan if you criticize others for not enjoying the version you watch. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but don't bash others for having a different one than you.

btw, I'm not calling myself a better fan than anyone else for enjoying all versions
I really agree with this as it is how I view the whole preference issue. Yes, this particular site focuses on the original Japanese version, but it is not necessary for what appears like "elitist cliques" jumping down upon dub fans and mercilessly tearing down what they enjoy. It all reeks of a sense of entitlement and a superiority complex, which is just sad. I respect that the majority of people here prefer the original, why is it so unreasonable to ask them to respect that I prefer the dub, even though I am not opposed to watching the original should I choose to do so? How does that preference, in any way, hurt die hard fans of the original Japanese version?

I really couldn't care less if someone doesn't like the dub, because I don't need to justify my viewing preferences to anybody and if anybody has a problem with which version I prefer, well, it's their problem, not mine. I know the dub is far from perfect, but I have better uses for my time an energy than to get bent out of shape over it, especially now that it has improved.
This would make a lot more sense if it wasn't almost always a dub fan starting these "this version, that version" threads. They're the ones that seem to want to talk about it so much. The only time I see it from sub fans is either:

A) In response to these topics, because, well, discussion is discussion.
B) When misinformation about the series is spread.

Let's see... Do a search for "dub" in any given topic title...

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... 62&start=0
http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... 33&start=0
http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... 78&start=0
http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... 76&start=0
http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... 89&start=0
http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... 39&start=0
http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... 75&start=0

That's all I care to dig up. I think only one of those isn't (generally)in favor of one specific version.
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Post by Super Sonic » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:32 pm

penguintruth wrote:
Super Sonic wrote:Have to also say another reason I like the dub is watching it led to events that influenced my life and nearly got me a girlfriend. That ever happen to anyone else, or with the latter part make my life seem like weird things can happen?
None of this makes it a good dub, unfortunately.
Umm... I didn't say that it was or wasn't. I was saying that it had an impact on my life and effected me in the long run. Grant I'm probably alone in that matter, but still...

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Post by MCDaveG » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:34 pm

Super Sonic wrote: nearly got me a girlfriend
I was also dating girls with using my character, but how did you managed to caught a girl on US dub of Dragon Ball??
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Post by SparkyPantsMcGee » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:36 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Here's a question:

For all of you that say you "grew up" with FUNimation's English dub... what exactly do you mean by "grew up"...? How old were you when you started watching it? If you moved away from it, how old were you when that transformation took place (and if not, saying how old you are now still makes sense, I suppose).

When FUNimation's original dub of DBZ began in 1996, I was... what... 14? By 1997 and the second season's original TV airing, I had already shifted over entirely in terms of pure enjoyment and full-steam-ahead fandom (getting fansubs, preparing to make my website, etc.).

EDIT: To expand upon what I mean / am asking, how do you define "grew up"...? Is there a certain age where you are no longer "growing" in terms of your tastes? That probably differs person-to-person, but does it apply to you? Every year as I get older (not that 27 is any solid definition of "aged and wise"), I realize just how immature each and every previous year truly is compared to what comes next... so how do you figure out when that "growing up" period really is? Is it over when you're done with middle school? High school? College? Further? Does it depend upon when in your life you even started watching it in the first place?
This is a great question.

I was 6 when Dragonball Z first aired. I loved the show, and it was probably for the same reasons I loved Power Rangers. I was so into the show I bought a few VHS and these small action figures(from the buu saga mind you) at toys r' us. However the show disappeared for awhile and I didn't catch wind of it again until about 1999.

I was 9, when the show reappeared on Toonami and it was a big deal at my school. I went home one day to check the show out and I couldn't believe it, it was the same show I watched 3 years ago. I was so excited I popped in an old VHS, this was the first time noticed a voice change for any show. I liked the newer voices better but I wasn't bothered by the older voices. In fact, I didn't even know they were different actors. To me it was just their voices changing as they got older through the series. I was so into the show that I watched it religiously all the way to GT's ending in 2004.

It wasn't until 200-2001 that I started learning that the show was actually an anime from Japan. Before that it was a cartoon, who gave a crap who published the show or who voiced Goku? It was just an awesome cartoon for me to watch.I started becoming a small otaku around this time too. I would yell at kids who called it "Japan-amation" and not "anime" and I drew fan-fic Saiyan chracters.

It was also around this time I met someone who was obsessed with the show more than I was. This kid had an older brother who was into the show as well, so I was able to see a few bootlegs. He showed me the 3rd Broly movie and a GT episode. I was turned off by Goku's voice actor, I thought it was so funny that someone like Goku was voiced by a girl and at the times, watching the show with subs felt awkward. I could keep up with the text but the GT episode was loaded with cursing. It was so bad at times that I was actually turned off by it, sadly I couldn't finish the episode.

This kid(can't remember his name for the life of me) and I would also collect these old "Becket" magazines. Man were they bad! The information they provided for readers consisted of rumors and misinformation. The one thing that sticks out in my mind though, was there casting for a "live action movie." I laughed so hard at there choices, especially for Krillin. Danny DeVitto or Vern Troyer, man it doesn't get funnier than that.

My love for Dragonball followed me all the way through Highschool even after the series ended. I was so obsessed with the games. After Budokai 1, I started getting one each Christmas as my own personal tradition. I also collected a few movies, unfortunately most of them where VHS's and were either sold or thrown away. So far all I have left are the Broly movies on DVD. Hopping to have the Dragonbox as the start of my new collection though.

As of now, I am still as big of a fan as I ever was. In fact, I find it kind of funny that Dragonball was my first "real" anime and the only one I watch today. While many shows have come and gone I am still obsessed with Dragonball with no signs of stopping any time soon. I have grown in many ways as a fan and I am now much more informed,thanks to DaizEX.

Since being on this site I have seen all of DBZ and a majority of Dragonball in Japanese. I must say, while I enjoy the Japanese cast and respect it as the original Dragonball, I still find myself picking favorites with the English cast. It might be based off nostalgia, it might just be because I have listened to Schemell's Goku for 10 years and his voice has become the standard choice for me, but for whatever the reason it is my default preference.

Its funny, after writing this I thought back to a lot fun moments in my life and I realized this silly children show has played a role in my life for 13 years now and it hasn't stopped. I think that's pretty neat.
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Post by Gozar » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:39 pm

penguintruth wrote:Enlighten me. How has it improved? Better scripting? Better voices?
The Buu Saga, GT, & DragonBall all have more accurate scripts. And the actors have far improved over time.
Also, I have difficulty respecting fans of the dub, because the dub isn't really Dragon Ball Z.
When you make statements like this, you're just looking for trouble. I've seen you make similar statements in the past and people have told you the same thing. Are you itching for this to turn into a flame war?


But anyway, to answer the question at hand here. For me it's not about "growing up with it" or nostalgia. Because my preference for the script quickly switched away from the Dub once I started reading the Manga and my preference for the music switched to the Japanese score once I started watching the series in Japanese. The only thing that hasn't changed is my preference for the FUNi cast. In my mind that is how the characters sound and for the most part those are the more suited voices in my opinion.
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Post by Godo » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:42 pm

penguintruth wrote: Also, I have difficulty respecting fans of the dub, because the dub isn't really Dragon Ball Z.
A Volvo that gets it's color changed, it's motor changed and some new tires is still the same Volvo, although you will experience it differently.
You cannot simply say that it's not Dragonball Z, although it may not be the same as how you want Dragonball Z to be interpreted.
Going by that logic, I could dismiss the anime fully, saying that those who watch the anime do not really gain my respect, since they don't follow the "pure" source. The anime has mixed up quite a bit too, and created plot holes, which counts for the Japanese version too.
So my point is that Dragonball Z is Dragonball Z, no matter which language you enjoy it in.

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Post by linkdude20002001 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:47 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Here's a question:

For all of you that say you "grew up" with FUNimation's English dub... what exactly do you mean by "grew up"...? How old were you when you started watching it? If you moved away from it, how old were you when that transformation took place (and if not, saying how old you are now still makes sense, I suppose).

When FUNimation's original dub of DBZ began in 1996, I was... what... 14? By 1997 and the second season's original TV airing, I had already shifted over entirely in terms of pure enjoyment and full-steam-ahead fandom (getting fansubs, preparing to make my website, etc.).

EDIT: To expand upon what I mean / am asking, how do you define "grew up"...? Is there a certain age where you are no longer "growing" in terms of your tastes? That probably differs person-to-person, but does it apply to you? Every year as I get older (not that 27 is any solid definition of "aged and wise"), I realize just how immature each and every previous year truly is compared to what comes next... so how do you figure out when that "growing up" period really is? Is it over when you're done with middle school? High school? College? Further? Does it depend upon when in your life you even started watching it in the first place?
Let's see... Dragon Ball began airing on TV in 1995, so, I must've been six. I didn't like it so I stopped watching it after the first episode. Then, in 1997, I saw DBZ on Toonami (I was eight). I didn't like it either, but I kept watching it and became a huge fan.

I never liked the music. It was just kind of there. And after watching the first two movies (in 1998 I think), I realized how much I didn't like the music in the third movie and the TV series.
Then FUNimation got a new voice cast and new music. At this point, I still paid no attention to the acting, voices, or script, but the music still sucked. And by the time FUNimation was in the Majin Boo arc, I was starting to get tired of how awful the dub was. Not just the TV series, but the movies too.

In 2004 (I was 15), I got Netflix and started renting the original series, Dragon Ball. I decided to watch it in Japanese because I was sick of the dub by this point. Though, I did watch it dubbed here and there as I went through the series, and it wasn't bad actually.

I guess, by the time I was in high school, I was pretty much done "growing" in terms of my taste. Nowadays, I stick to the Japanese version and don't consider FUNimation's dub of Dragon Ball Z to be Dragon Ball Z. Their dub of Dragon Ball is, though.
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Post by Super Sonic » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:50 pm

MCDaveG wrote:
Super Sonic wrote: nearly got me a girlfriend
I was also dating girls with using my character, but how did you managed to caught a girl on US dub of Dragon Ball??
I guess I should've elaborated that it led to events that nearly got me a girlfriend. Here's what happened. Watching the dub is what gets me to becoming an anime fan. Fandom led me to going to conventions, which led me to start cosplaying. When started cosplaying at conventions, met a bunch of new friends, including this one girl who was really cool. We just didn't hook up due to my living in the States and her living in Canada.

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Post by penguintruth » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:53 pm

Gozar wrote:[The Buu Saga, GT, & DragonBall all have more accurate scripts. And the actors have far improved over time.
You can honestly listen to the dub of GT and say it's a good dub? Really?
When you make statements like this, you're just looking for trouble. I've seen you make similar statements in the past and people have told you the same thing. Are you itching for this to turn into a flame war?
Looking for trouble? No, I'm looking for debate. It's why discussion forums exist, is it not? I'm assuming Mike didn't put this board here so everyone could agree with each other all the time.

I've fully supported my reasons why I think the DBZ dub isn't really DBZ. It is, at best, inconsistent in accuracy, and at worst, wildly inaccurate and insultingly dumbed down. And that's saying a lot, since DBZ doesn't have a lot going for it, intelligence-wise, to begin with.

The script is poor, the voice acting is laughable, and the filler music is just a cynical, sad commentary on American children (which is mostly right, unfortunately... just look at all the fans of it) and is used as a blunt instrument throughout. They add lines where there weren't any, and shouldn't be, music where there isn't and even when they had a chance to go back and fix things, still screwed up.

Why shouldn't I, at every chance I get, criticize and malign the English dub for this show? Even terribly acted dubs like Bubblegum Crisis, Blue Seed, or Patlabor, were at least accurate.

Am I just throwing things out there? Am I not providing support for my arguments? Am I name-calling? Threatening? No.

I'm not apologizing for anything I say. If you disagree, debate me. Otherwise, don't waste your energy.
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Post by bkev » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:57 pm

penguintruth wrote: You can honestly listen to the dub of GT and say it's a good dub? Really?
I know this is used a lot, and it's no excuse, but... at least by comparison to the Z dub, ignoring the dub-music fiasco that is now forgotten. I've heard that it's the closest of the three to the original version.
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Post by DemonRin » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:00 pm

Godo wrote:
penguintruth wrote: Also, I have difficulty respecting fans of the dub, because the dub isn't really Dragon Ball Z.
A Volvo that gets it's color changed, it's motor changed and some new tires is still the same Volvo, although you will experience it differently.
You cannot simply say that it's not Dragonball Z, although it may not be the same as how you want Dragonball Z to be interpreted.
That's not really a fair comparison. A Car is a mass-produced product, of course there'd be several different kinds of the same car that drive differently. Dragon Ball Z is One Show. FUNi Ball Z is a new show based on the Old Show.
The Japanese aren't immune to this, Dragon Ball Kai is a New Show based on the Old Show. But at least the Japanese had the good sense to rename the show when they messed with it.

It's not that FUNi Ball Z is Inferior, as Inferior is a subjective thing based on the person watching, but it IS different, and there are fans who think Original will always Trump Different.

Why do you think a good chunk of the Fanbase Hates Kai? Because it's not the Original version.
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Post by Rocketman » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:00 pm

penguintruth wrote:You can honestly listen to the dub of GT and say it's a good dub? Really?
Step into the Grand Tour is a better theme than DAN DAN because it actually has something to do with the show it's attached to.

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Post by DemonRin » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:03 pm

Rocketman wrote:
penguintruth wrote:You can honestly listen to the dub of GT and say it's a good dub? Really?
Step into the Grand Tour is a better theme than DAN DAN because it actually has something to do with the show it's attached to.
Thank you, I needed a really good laugh XD

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Post by NeptuneKai » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:03 pm

Rocketman wrote:
penguintruth wrote:You can honestly listen to the dub of GT and say it's a good dub? Really?
Step into the Grand Tour is a better theme than DAN DAN because it actually has something to do with the show it's attached to.
Step into the Grand Tour is the best opening period. I officially declare it to be my new favorite DB related song.
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Post by penguintruth » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:07 pm

Rocketman wrote:
penguintruth wrote:You can honestly listen to the dub of GT and say it's a good dub? Really?
Step into the Grand Tour is a better theme than DAN DAN because it actually has something to do with the show it's attached to.
How can you---

Oh. I see what you did there.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Post by Rocketman » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:11 pm

DemonRin wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
penguintruth wrote:You can honestly listen to the dub of GT and say it's a good dub? Really?
Step into the Grand Tour is a better theme than DAN DAN because it actually has something to do with the show it's attached to.
Thank you, I needed a really good laugh XD
I am dead serious. You people would've thrown the biggest hissy fit of all time if FUNi had made some NSync or Backstreet Boys love song be the theme for US GT, but Toei does the same damn thing and you all fawn over it.

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