Accuracy of the Dragonbox colors?

SweetCosmicPope · Post by **SweetCosmicPope** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:31 pm

I gathered that not all of the masters are remastered to the exact same quality. IE, not consistent.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:28 pm

SweetCosmicPope wrote:I gathered that not all of the masters are remastered to the exact same quality. IE, not consistent.

The same amount of effort was put into remastering all of the masters, but some were worse off than others and could only be fixed so much. In other words, some came out looking worse than others, but only because they couldn't be brought up to the level of the others due to their level of damage.

With Toei, it's usually not a case of laziness (in my opinion).

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:51 am

I'm sorry for confusing you by my bad English.

I meant just what SSj_Rambo said. Thank you.

Well, my conclusion derived from this argument and Toei's official answer is the following:

The master films of Dragon Ball series have unfortunately deteriorated and some of them were even impossible for Toei to fix them perfectly in spite of their exertions. Thus, some (though I think most of) episodes like 30 and 31 (Goku vs. Vegeta) on DBOXes have different colours than what they were originally meant to be. Of cource, DBOXes are still the best releases ever sold in the world, however, they are not perfect in all points.

I won!

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:22 pm

kei17 wrote:The master films of Dragon Ball series have unfortunately deteriorated and some of them were even impossible for Toei to fix them perfectly in spite of their exertions. Thus, some (though I think most of) episodes like 30 and 31 (Goku vs. Vegeta) on DBOXes have different colours than what they were originally meant to be. Of cource, DBOXes are still the best releases ever sold in the world, however, they are not perfect in all points.

I won!

Err, but if that's the case, why do the Daizenshuu show the same green sky you pointed out as being "wrong"? I certainly am glad to hear Toei's answer and think it's awesome that you got a hold of them, but they could easily be referring to any number of things about the film masters (the numerous problems with GT's image quality in general, or the "wrap-around" issue with the one episode on the DragonBall DragonBox, for instance) and not necessarily the colors.

-Corey

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:41 am

I'm not sure if anyone's brought this up yet. But when you look at the Cel's that you can buy on Ebay from the series. They don't really look like the DBOX colors, namely in the area of Skin tones.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:05 am

Gozar wrote:I'm not sure if anyone's brought this up yet. But when you look at the Cel's that you can buy on Ebay from the series. They don't really look like the DBOX colors, namely in the area of Skin tones.

I agree. Honestly, I think the colors of the cels match closest to FUNimation's Season Set colors (sans Season Two) rather than the Dragon Box.

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:20 pm

Gozar wrote:I'm not sure if anyone's brought this up yet. But when you look at the Cel's that you can buy on Ebay from the series. They don't really look like the DBOX colors, namely in the area of Skin tones.

If the original master "deteriorates," wouldn't the cel animation as well?

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:17 pm

ect5150 wrote:If the original master "deteriorates," wouldn't the cel animation as well?

Everything on earth becomes depleted. So what?
The colours of cels carefully stored by collectors do not change dramatically like films.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:42 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:Err, but if that's the case, why do the Daizenshuu show the same green sky you pointed out as being "wrong"? I certainly am glad to hear Toei's answer and think it's awesome that you got a hold of them, but they could easily be referring to any number of things about the film masters (the numerous problems with GT's image quality in general, or the "wrap-around" issue with the one episode on the DragonBall DragonBox, for instance) and not necessarily the colors.

-Corey

Not to mention this brings nothing to the table in regards to his argument. Like he said in his most recent post, everything indeed deteriorates. This does not give credence to his claims of "right and wrong" in regards to color.

As I said previously ,kei17 , I do accept your argument of the color found on the stand-alone cels, however, I accept it as a preference. Just like how myself and MajinVejitaXV and others seem to prefer the Dragon Box source (I've already posted my reasoning for using film over cels as a reference point). There are too many factors here to simply state "Dragon Box is wrong and whatever material I happen to be holding is right". In regards to animation cels vs original film, I really do feel that it is a matter of opinion.

(Or we can just base everything off of Kai from now on.)

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:33 pm

I'm sorry for necro-posting, but I thought this'd be worth doing it. (Japanese people like to reuse things, really)
A Japanese DB fan gave me many VHS's that include the first air on TV Yamaguchi, which was broadcasted about 3 weeks after than the original air on Fuji TV.

Here are some screen caps

( First Air on TVY -> Dragon Box )

Comparison with Original Cel

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:41 pm

That's pretty interesting, but...assuming the television masters are copies from copies of the original, and the DBox master is directly from the original print, aren't the DBox masters more accurate to what is intended? I noticed the cell you post contains background details neither the TVY or DBox master contain, but both may or may not have aged over twenty years.

Then again, I'm faaaaaar from being an afficianado on the subject, so forgive my ignorance.

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:50 pm

JulieYBM wrote:That's pretty interesting, but...assuming the television masters are copies from copies of the original, and the DBox master is directly from the original print, aren't the DBox masters more accurate to what is intended?

Film loses its colours earlier than video tape. Taped-off early copies can hold the original colours longer than the master film.
This kind of problem happens on many other anime/tokusatsu, and the only way to solve it is to HD-remaster the footage.
However, Toei didn't do it on DB releases. Thus, the footage of DBOXes has terribly faded colours.

I noticed the cell you post contains background details neither the TVY or DBox master contain, but both may or may not have aged over twenty years.

The background of the cel shot is from a different scene, I think.

BrollysKin · Post by **BrollysKin** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:58 pm

Regardless of whether or not it was the way it was intended, I find the Dboxes to have VERY pink flesh tones.

kei17 · Post by **kei17** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:09 pm

You can check out the "the way it was intended" with Daizenshuu or Complete TV Anime Guide. Colours of the scans of the cels from these episodes are almost identical to the screenshots I brought this time.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:09 pm

BrollysKin wrote:Regardless of whether or not it was the way it was intended, I find the Dboxes to have VERY pink flesh tones.

This is true. It's the one thing that bothers me about the dragon box.

BrollysKin · Post by **BrollysKin** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:14 pm

kei17 wrote:You can check out the "the way it was intended" with Daizenshuu or Complete TV Anime Guide. Colours of the scans of the cels from these episodes are almost identical to the screenshots I brought this time.

So it confirms my previous views that I think the Dbox has too green blues, as well as vagina skin tones.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:30 pm

BrollysKin wrote:So it confirms my previous views that I think the Dbox has too green blues, as well as vagina skin tones.

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't call that 'vagina skin tones' (keeping in mind it looks different on a properly calibrated television than a PC...maybe differences in color spaces?).

-Corey

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:31 pm

I think he's mainly referring to the Saiyan saga.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:32 pm

bkev wrote:I think he's mainly referring to the Saiyan saga.

The skin tones stay fairly consistent though. People have raised the 'pink skin' issue with nearly all the screen shots shown from throughout the series.

-Corey

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:34 pm

Gohan doesn't seem to pink in your screen, though.

Kanzenshuu

Accuracy of the Dragonbox colors?

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