Unique DBZ Related Beliefs and Opinions

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:41 pm

Kendamu wrote:I don't know any "seiki" that are concrete.

I was thinking about "精気", and it's about as concrete as the Chinese examples you gave, in my opinion.

正気- true character; true heart; true spirit; sanity; consciousness; soberness

(that's "shôki")

All of these things are intangible.

And "the energies from oxygen, food, and sleep" aren't? ^^;

As for "kuuki," I've never seen the "air" meaning used literally.

Well, that's odd. It's pretty common, really.

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:34 pm

On topic, I have my specific beliefs.

I think base alone Vegetto is the strongest character in Dragon Ball, including GT. I know officially, it probably isn't true, but I heard that somewhere, and the idea seems so damn cool I decided it was true to me.

I know people tend to refer to the androids by their numbers, but I always refer to #18 as "Juuhachigo" and #17 as "Juunanago".

I've also decided King Cold didn't die after Trunks beat him. Think about it... you never see his corpse. I like to think he contacted a ship to save him or something. I mean, there's a good chance he's stronger than Freeza and Cooler. Even so, Freeza was cut in half and blown up with a planet and lived. Cooler was cut into little pieces and survived in space for who knows how long... as far the scenes of him in Hell, well... that's not really canon. I mean, the fact that they had bodies in Hell is totally non-canon in the first place.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:41 pm

Thanos wrote:I think base alone Vegetto is the strongest character in Dragon Ball, including GT. I know officially, it probably isn't true, but I heard that somewhere, and the idea seems so damn cool I decided it was true to me.

That one could be true for all anyone knows. We don't see Vegetto fight in his base form in the manga. Some would argue that if he had to go to SSJ then he must have thought his base form wasn't enough, but...for all we know, he just thought the name 'Super Vegetto' sounded cool.

I've also decided King Cold didn't die after Trunks beat him. Think about it... you never see his corpse. I like to think he contacted a ship to save him or something. I mean, there's a good chance he's stronger than Freeza and Cooler. Even so, Freeza was cut in half and blown up with a planet and lived. Cooler was cut into little pieces and survived in space for who knows how long... as far the scenes of him in Hell, well... that's not really canon. I mean, the fact that they had bodies in Hell is totally non-canon in the first place.

Trunks kind of...blew the corpse to pieces right before blowing up Cold's ship (in the manga we see his tail flying out of the explosion). Unless he secretly survived that.

Post by **Herms** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:25 pm

Thanos wrote:I know people tend to refer to the androids by their numbers, but I always refer to #18 as "Juuhachigo" and #17 as "Juunanago".

But...those are their numbers, only in Japanese.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:29 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
All of these things are intangible.
And "the energies from oxygen, food, and sleep" aren't? ^^;

No, they aren't intangible. They're actual physical tangible things that are processed through the body so that we can physically do things. The energy from food is called "calories." Sleep repairs damage from being awake. Oxygen goes into the blood so that our muscles work (amongst other things). The intangible things I'm talking about are emotions and things related to the state-of-mind (like 精気).

EDIT: And, again, I was simplifying things. There is some overlap, but essentially they're different ideas based in tangibility and intangibility.

Olivier Hague wrote:
正気- true character; true heart; true spirit; sanity; consciousness; soberness
(that's "shôki")

http://jisho.org/words?jap=%E6%AD%A3%E6 ... dict=edict

Also Seiki.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:40 pm

Bussani wrote:
Thanos wrote: I've also decided King Cold didn't die after Trunks beat him. Think about it... you never see his corpse. I like to think he contacted a ship to save him or something. I mean, there's a good chance he's stronger than Freeza and Cooler. Even so, Freeza was cut in half and blown up with a planet and lived. Cooler was cut into little pieces and survived in space for who knows how long... as far the scenes of him in Hell, well... that's not really canon. I mean, the fact that they had bodies in Hell is totally non-canon in the first place.
Trunks kind of...blew the corpse to pieces right before blowing up Cold's ship (in the manga we see his tail flying out of the explosion). Unless he secretly survived that.

Goku did the same to Freeza, let's not forget. ^^.
I was about to suggest that Anime! Cooler might have rescued him and he was recovering during movie5, but then it occurred to me that I think Cooler's attack on Goku was more of an honor thing than a vengeance thing, and that makes me wonder how likely he'd be to rescue his father if he knew about the circumstances surrounding his defeat (or if he knew at all, since Movie5 tends to ignore Trunks...).

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:04 pm

Thanos wrote:I've also decided King Cold didn't die after Trunks beat him. Think about it... you never see his corpse.

Yes you do. There's a panel of his blank-eyed lifeless form slumped against the rock wall, and then another panel of him getting blow to chunky bits by Trunks.

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:18 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Thanos wrote:I've also decided King Cold didn't die after Trunks beat him. Think about it... you never see his corpse.
Yes you do. There's a panel of his blank-eyed lifeless form slumped against the rock wall, and then another panel of him getting blow to chunky bits by Trunks.

No, no... he's laying there, struggling, and he says to Trunks, "You dirty Saiyajin!" or something, and then you see Trunks blast him. You see the cloud of dust, but no corpse. As caejones said, Goku did the same to Freeza.

I might be wrong, but it might have more to do with the fact that I find King Cold to be the most badass villain in DBZ... that is, when he isn't groveling to Trunks. I think it would've been epic if he had appeared after Goku killed Freeza and Cooler, and there would've been this long, drawn-out amazing battle against King Cold, sort of like the Buu scenario when he blows up Earth and the Z Guys are desperate.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:03 pm

Thanos wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
Thanos wrote:I've also decided King Cold didn't die after Trunks beat him. Think about it... you never see his corpse.
Yes you do. There's a panel of his blank-eyed lifeless form slumped against the rock wall, and then another panel of him getting blow to chunky bits by Trunks.
No, no... he's laying there, struggling, and he says to Trunks, "You dirty Saiyajin!" or something, and then you see Trunks blast him. You see the cloud of dust, but no corpse.

That's in the anime. King Cold never says anything after Trunks blasts him in the manga. You just see him slumped lifeless against the wall, then Trunks fires another blast. The blast makes contact with Cold, and he explodes, and you see his tail flying out of the explosion. He's pretty much dead.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Kendamu wrote:No, they aren't intangible. They're actual physical tangible things that are processed through the body so that we can physically do things. The energy from food is called "calories." Sleep repairs damage from being awake. Oxygen goes into the blood so that our muscles work (amongst other things).

Well, it's not like those who came up with the "ki" words associated with those knew about calories, oxygen, etc, you know...

The intangible things I'm talking about are emotions and things related to the state-of-mind (like 精気).

"精気" isn't a matter of "state-of-mind". It's the exact same kind of deal as above.

(that's "shôki")
http://jisho.org/words?jap=%E6%AD%A3%E6 ... dict=edict

Also Seiki.

Have you ever seen that word as "seiki"? Seriously. ^^;
And as far as I know, it really doesn't mean the same thing as "shôki"...

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:23 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:Well, it's not like those who came up with the "ki" words associated with those knew about calories, oxygen, etc, you know...

The idea has developed further over time. Just read some stuff from guys like Da Liu and Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming. It's always been about breaqth, food, and sleep being balanced with exercise. We just have scientific synonyms for the types of post-natal Qi originally mentioned in old Taijiquan texts.

As for the Japanese interpretation, it went in a different direction.

"精気" isn't a matter of "state-of-mind". It's the exact same kind of deal as above.

Again, ideas develop over time. I'm going by modern interpretation here based on current linguistic use in everyday society... not the mystical ideas that came from people unwilling to adapt because they have a romanticized view of what Qi is. Unless you can extract a substance called "happy" or "sad" out of the brain, I'm sticking with the idea that it's intangible.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:35 pm

Fine, whatever...

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:37 pm

Piccolo Daimao wrote:That's in the anime. King Cold never says anything after Trunks blasts him in the manga. You just see him slumped lifeless against the wall, then Trunks fires another blast. The blast makes contact with Cold, and he explodes, and you see his tail flying out of the explosion. He's pretty much dead.

How fucking dare you try to kill my beliefs.

I guess I was talking about the anime anyway, I don't really read the manga...