Episode #0198 (22 November 2009)

We cover anything and everything Dragon Ball in hopes of enlightening... and a little bit of entertaining. Hosted every week by the Kanzenshuu staff and regular special guests from the professional and fandom communities. Your first, best, last, and only Dragon Ball podcast!
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Episode #0198 (22 November 2009)

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:49 pm

Episode #0198 (download MP3) (rss feed)
103:12; 64 kbps, mono; 47.2 MB

Episode #0198! VegettoEX, Hujio, and Corey review FUNimation's first Dragon Box! Nearly three years after the first faux-"remastered" debacle of a release, do we finally have reason to change our tune with regard to a home release from FUNimation? Were our wishes truly granted? Meri pops in to cruise through the news, releases, and contest information, and that rounds out a show! Referenced sites:
Go ahead and grab it. Big thanks to godofchaos for hosting the interesting *one-hundred-ninety-eight* episodes, now.

Don't forget the corresponding review, y'allz. And you know our Kanzentai buddies have good shit coming, too!

w0rd.
Last edited by VegettoEX on Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Episode #0198 (22 November 2009)

Post by Hujio » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:37 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Don't forget the corresponding review, y'allz. And you know our Kanzentai buddies have good shit coming, too!
And you beat us again! Hopefully we'll have ours up later tonight once we stop changing things over and over because I'm so anal. It's a gift, I swear. Would you be chance be willing to add a link to our comparison once it's up? Oh, and I'm putting off reading yours until ours is done. That way I'm not tempted to make more changes, and they don't end up looking the same. :)
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Re: Episode #0198 (22 November 2009)

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:39 pm

Hujio wrote:And you beat us again! Hopefully we'll have ours up later tonight once we stop changing things over and over because I'm so anal. It's a gift, I swear. Would you be chance be willing to add a link to our comparison once it's up? Oh, and I'm putting off reading yours until ours is done. That way I'm not tempted to make more changes, and they don't end up looking the same. :)
Hehe, I tried to avoid reading through yours as much as possible :P. It looks like you've gone in and added a lot more, though. And yeah, I have a link all ready to place within it as soon as it's live!
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Post by Shigeru » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:36 am

Almost done with the topic. Still, I'm not convinced to buy these sets.

And no, I'm not mad Bruce Falcouner isn't on here.

I just do not want spit up $80+ dollars for 42 episodes I've already owned once or twice in my life. I understand the video looks great, but is that really the selling point? And the next episode previews? 15 seconds of footage on an episode isn't going to win me over. The book, however, looks very nice. Makes the Dragonball Z Season boxset booklets look like bootlegs with 40+ episodes on them. Again, I'm just going to stick with my Season sets or single discs.

However, I'm not done.

I have heard the movies are going to be released in this style of format. That, I will buy. I don't own any of the movies, and haven't seen any of them.
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Post by Super Ghost Kamikaze » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:56 am

VegettoEX wrote: Closing in on fifteen years later, I can finally rest.
Goddammit, don't jinx it!

Awesome podcast. The review almost seems to drag, but that's just because there's just SO MUCH stuff in it to dig through before I got to what I was looking for. For anyone who hasn't been anally following this release, I'm sure the amount of information will be appreciated.

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Post by Kendamu » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:27 am

Shigeru wrote:I just do not want spit up $80+ dollars for 42 episodes I've already owned once or twice in my life.
$80+? I payed $58 and I only payed that much to get it early. A lot of other people payed about $47. Give it a few months and it'll likely be less.

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Post by Ex-Dubbie369 » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:36 am

So far, in just reading the review, I give you 50 awesome points for using the word "motif." :D

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Post by Shiyonasan » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:43 am

Great review. It's nice to know those little nitpicky details even though I'm not nitpicky myself.

Anyway, I've got three things I want to share or ask:

1. Can one of you put up a comparison image of the Japanese Dragon Box and the American Dragon Box side by side? It wasn't in the Daizenshuu EX feature, so I figured I'd ask.

2. Did any of you have that paper on the back that talks about the "hardcore fans" stuck on the box with only two points of gluing? It just kind of seems odd to me.

3. For those who have trouble getting the "books" out, here is what I do to get them out easily. Be very careful when you do this:

~First, get your Dragon Box and hold on to it firmly with one hand on the spine of the box (I use my left hand), but not so firmly that you leave imprints on the box. Lift it up with your hand on the spine still semi-firmly to keep the books in the box and point the opening of the box with the books in it straight down on to a high surface that's off the floor (Make sure the box is only about an inch or two above this high surface). Place your other hand (I use my right hand) about an inch or two away from under the opening of the box and release your grip slowly on the hand holding the box from the spine, but don't drop the box. The books should slip out onto the hand underneath the box. Pull the book or books out that you need and push the other book or books back in.

I wish I had a camera to show you guys this. I hope that makes sense.

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Post by penguintruth » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:52 am

Dragon Ball Z is far from my favorite anime of all time, but my Dragon Box is absolutely one of the true treasures of my anime DVD collection, and was worth every single penny I paid for it.

I have to be honest, though. I never considered getting DBZ on DVD (DBZVD, if you will), until a few years ago when I was impulse buying and saw the orange box sets. I almost bought it, but then I decided to check Daizenshuu EX's DVD guide. I already knew that Funimation had been screwing with the colors in their DVD releases of DBZ for years, but I had no idea just how messed up they were, calling the orange sets "remastered" when they just continued to mess with the video in detrimental ways.

I held out for the Dragon Box, and I'm glad I did. I really feel sorry for the folks who think of DBZ as their favorite show, waiting for such a release for all these years. I haven't been. DBZ was always one of those nostalgic, but ultimately "take it or leave it" shows that was a low buy priority. Then Kai came. Inspired by nostalgia, I bought the Pioneer release of the first three movies out of a longing for Peter Kelamis' Goku. Then the DBox release was announced, and I had some spare cash lying around, and bam.

I think that's why I signed up for the forums, to get information on the Dragon Box, but really got into talking about a show I hardly reconsidered in years. I'd always listened to the podcast, but I never really longed to talk about the show until the Dragon Box announcement.

Oh god, I too find myself thinking about DBZ Abridged when I watch this set. Especially when I see Mr. Popo or exchanges between Gohan and Piccolo. I did the whole "We get it, you're from space!" in the episode where Gohan headbutts Raditz, too. I even find myself consulting those episodes again as I watch the show. Damn Team Fourstar.

Ugh, it really boggles my mind how anyone can prefer that awful Faulconer noise to Kikuchi's epic, martial arts movie-inspired, quasi-operatic score. It's not even music. It's just a bunch of synthasized noises strung together to sound similar to music. I even tried listening to a few of the soundtracks again to see if I was just angry about the replacement music and I couldn't bare more than a few tracks.

Yamamoto's music for Kai is little better, most of the time.
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Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:03 am

Hmm...so the 10 percent brightness thing is only so that the TV can display them properly? So I'm guessing that if you played the R2 and R1 discs together on a TV, they'd look exactly the same, right?
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Post by Yi Xing Long » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:08 am

Another great episode. You sure are picky bastards, but I wouldn't have it any other way. :P

I still don't even know where to begin; I'm still getting used to the idea of a North American Dragon Box (which I have sitting beside me). For so many years I wanted to import the Dragon Box sets - and I did buy "Dragon Box The Movies" - and then eventually I shifted my focus toward the DBox singles. Now I can stop wondering how I will pay for all of it since these sets are offered at such a graciously affordable and reasonable price. I think everyone feels this way about it, though.

Affordable domestic Dragon Box - 'nuff said.

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Post by SSj_Rambo » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:55 am

Great episode guys!! Great review from all angles!

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Post by Innagadadavida » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:55 am

To some degree, it almost seems to be to one's personal detriment to continue being a fan of this type of "reversioning" once you realize it was specifically created to cater to the lower-than-lowest-common-denominator.
I'm constantly amazed not only at your inability (maybe refusal) to empathize, but at your absolute snobbish condescending attitude about people who enjoy a different version of the same show. If your mission is to try to show people the perks of the superior original version, being a total asshole is not the way to do it. But I'm sure you know that, it's obvious you were holding back some flamebait in the article by not diving too deeply into your own thoughts.

Other than that, great review. One thing you might want to point out is the difference between R1 and R2. I kept forgetting which was which as I was reading and some sort of indication that one could refer to might have made that a little easier. I don't believe you specified in the article.
Last edited by Innagadadavida on Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by JulieYBM » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:06 am

Funtastic as always. I can't wait to pop one of these bad boys into my player and watch all of the episodes for once.
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Post by samuraigundam » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:40 am

penguintruth wrote:Dragon Ball Z is far from my favorite anime of all time, but my Dragon Box is absolutely one of the true treasures of my anime DVD collection, and was worth every single penny I paid for it.

I have to be honest, though. I never considered getting DBZ on DVD (DBZVD, if you will), until a few years ago when I was impulse buying and saw the orange box sets. I almost bought it, but then I decided to check Daizenshuu EX's DVD guide. I already knew that Funimation had been screwing with the colors in their DVD releases of DBZ for years, but I had no idea just how messed up they were, calling the orange sets "remastered" when they just continued to mess with the video in detrimental ways.

I held out for the Dragon Box, and I'm glad I did. I really feel sorry for the folks who think of DBZ as their favorite show, waiting for such a release for all these years. I haven't been. DBZ was always one of those nostalgic, but ultimately "take it or leave it" shows that was a low buy priority. Then Kai came. Inspired by nostalgia, I bought the Pioneer release of the first three movies out of a longing for Peter Kelamis' Goku. Then the DBox release was announced, and I had some spare cash lying around, and bam.

I think that's why I signed up for the forums, to get information on the Dragon Box, but really got into talking about a show I hardly reconsidered in years. I'd always listened to the podcast, but I never really longed to talk about the show until the Dragon Box announcement.

Oh god, I too find myself thinking about DBZ Abridged when I watch this set. Especially when I see Mr. Popo or exchanges between Gohan and Piccolo. I did the whole "We get it, you're from space!" in the episode where Gohan headbutts Raditz, too. I even find myself consulting those episodes again as I watch the show. Damn Team Fourstar.

Ugh, it really boggles my mind how anyone can prefer that awful Faulconer noise to Kikuchi's epic, martial arts movie-inspired, quasi-operatic score. It's not even music. It's just a bunch of synthasized noises strung together to sound similar to music. I even tried listening to a few of the soundtracks again to see if I was just angry about the replacement music and I couldn't bare more than a few tracks.

Yamamoto's music for Kai is little better, most of the time.

Bruces music is not noise to me. Some of his music serves to highlight key scenes in the series better than Kikuchis score does , in my opinion.

Gohans Masenko blast after having knocked down 2nd form Freeza with a flurry of attacks during the fight on Namek , Goku solemnly burrying Vegeta , A nearly defeated Goku flying out of the water , and firing the Kamehameha at a surprised final form Freeza ( who barely manages to stop the blast with his hands ) , after imagining what would happen if he were to fail to stop him , Goku turning Super Saiya - Jin for the first time , Vegetas powering up and blasting Cell with the Final Flash , taking a good chunk out of him. Bruce music perfectly frames these moments in a way that kikuchis score fails to do.

Dont get me wrong. My first encounter with DBZ were fan sub versions of the first three movies , and I love Kikuchis music , but when I rewatched the above mentioned scenes during the International Channels broadcast , the music that accompanied it was significantly less than exciting.

And now I am at a crossroad with this series.

A year ago I bought season 1 of Funimations cropped sets , and even though there were flaws ( Funimations music for these newly dubbed early episodes was as awful as their GT dub episodes ) , it did look a a lot better than the previous releases , and I was able to watch the admitingly questionable , but still relatively decent , English dub with Kikuchis original score , so it was a pretty good buy , in my opinion. But now the question for me becomes , should I continue with the cropped sets because I prefer Bruces music in certain areas over Kikuchis , or should I just drop it , and get this ultimate set presented visually the way it was meant to be seen?

My true fear is that in a year Vegetto EX will be discusing the pros and cons of a newly released domestic Blu - Ray version of this same set!

I dont even want to think about the domestic release of Kai. I've seen fan subs of that show in bits and peices , and even though the idea of a closer to the Manga version of the series with no filler appeals to me , what I have seen so far doesnt impress me very much. What I would have really liked , would be for them to have gone back and reanimate the episodes done by the third tier animation team. After every two excellently animated episodes , there would be an episode that was some of the worst Anime I have ever seen! These episodes stuck out like a sore thumb , and were so badly animated that I am surprised that team continued on through GT.
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Post by MajinVejitaXV » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:03 am

Innagadadavida wrote:
. To some degree, it almost seems to be to one's personal detriment to continue being a fan of this type of "reversioning" once you realize it was specifically created to cater to the lower-than-lowest-common-demominator.
Pathetic. :roll:

I'm constantly amazed not only at your inability to empathize, but at your absolute snobbish condescending attitude about it. What's even more infuriating, is that you can sense this undertone through the whole review, but at the same time it seems like you think you're being totally fair. Like that whole quasi-apprehensive bone throw to the dub music fans was legitimate empathy.
I don't really think there's a need to empathize with fans of the dub. From FUNimation's incorporation up until now, they've basically catered non-stop to the dub fan. Now, they're extending an olive branch to the other side of the fandom that's been treated like the ugly stepsister for the past decade and a half.

Honestly, what is the big deal with the exclusion of the dub music, which was originally created to avoid licensing fees and to attract an audience of people arguably afflicted with ADHD? That'd be like me running around complaining that these sets don't have the Ocean dub, since that was the dub I was introduced to the show by. I own it in a form, it has value to me, but it's not DragonBall Z. It's an adaptation.

Three years ago nearly, I said that if people (fans of the dub and original alike) made a collective stand against FUNimation's practices with the Orange Bricks they could angle for a better (possibly DragonBox-derived) release. A few people agreed, but for the most part people bought the season sets anyway. And were I a betting man, I'd bet the majority of people that bought it and extolled the primary virtue of "OOOH, IT'S CHEAP!" were fans of the dub. They didn't care about the original music being kept in, the animation being cropped, or much else. And I have the bulk majority of the DBZ-related internet to prove it.

This release is DragonBall Z. Not the imitation. Buy it, watch it, love it. If you don't want it, the retina-melting sets that were targeted towards the dub fans are still in print. That part of the fandom made it sell well, so that's what FUNimation thinks they want. We made noise for the DragonBox and that's what we got. And if that upsets dub fans, then it's their own damned fault.

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Post by Innagadadavida » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:17 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:I don't really think there's a need to empathize with fans of the dub. From FUNimation's incorporation up until now, they've basically catered non-stop to the dub fan. Now, they're extending an olive branch to the other side of the fandom that's been treated like the ugly stepsister for the past decade and a half.
Yeah, empathy wasn't exactly the right word. I edited my post because I wasn't conveying the message that I wanted. And again, I'll point out that FUNimation never treated the other side of the fandom any worse than they did the dub fans. With the exception of the dub-only Pioneer release, the sub fans have received the exact same product as the dub-fans. The only difference is the dub fans are those who are content with a product that is less than perfect. Also, isn't "we've been treated like a ugly stepsister" kind of "playing the victim?" And isn't that against the rules?
MajinVejitaXV wrote:Honestly, what is the big deal with the exclusion of the dub music, which was originally created to avoid licensing fees and to attract an audience of people arguably afflicted with ADHD? That'd be like me running around complaining that these sets don't have the Ocean dub, since that was the dub I was introduced to the show by. I own it in a form, it has value to me, but it's not DragonBall Z. It's an adaptation.
While I am opposed to the exclusion of the dub music, it's not to the extent of sacrificing video or audio quality of the original version or at least the music. My preference is Kukichi's score, but I do have a small interest in the American broadcast music despite not having any nostalgic connection to it. So there's no point in trying to preach to me. My qualm was not about the exclusion of the dub music. It was about a backhanded remark written by VegettoEX.

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Post by Kendamu » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:28 am

Something I said earlier on Twitter in relation to the music in Dragonball Z...

"People say that the DBox is how DBZ was meant to be seen, but nobody wants to admit that it's also the way it was meant to be heard."

I don't mean it as a, "Hey, dub fans, fuck you," or anything like that. Just some food for thought.

Anywho...
samuraigundam wrote:My true fear is that in a year Vegetto EX will be discusing the pros and cons of a newly released domestic Blu - Ray version of this same set!
This set probably won't finish until May of 2011, so "A year from now isn't a problem." Hopefully by that point they'll have moved on to releasing Dragonball Kai.
Last edited by Kendamu on Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Innagadadavida » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:32 am

Kendamu wrote:Something I said earlier on Twitter in relation to the music in Dragonball Z...

"People say that the DBox is how DBZ was meant to be seen, but nobody wants to admit that it's also the way it was meant to be heard."

I don't mean it as a, "Hey, dub fans, fuck you," or anything like that. Just some food for thought.
Nobody said anything about not including the dub music. I don't mean to backseat mod, but I don't want to see another thread get closed for this same stupid fucking topic again. Especially this one, which is supposed to be about the review of the Dragon Box.

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Post by Kendamu » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:35 am

Innagadadavida wrote:
Kendamu wrote:Something I said earlier on Twitter in relation to the music in Dragonball Z...

"People say that the DBox is how DBZ was meant to be seen, but nobody wants to admit that it's also the way it was meant to be heard."

I don't mean it as a, "Hey, dub fans, fuck you," or anything like that. Just some food for thought.
Nobody said anything about not including the dub music. I don't mean to backseat mod, but I don't want to see another thread get closed for this same stupid fucking topic again.
MajinVejitaXV had said something about it. While we were on the topic of the dub, dub fans, who this release is catering to, etc. I felt that it was appropriate to mention something that speaks volumes about who the demographic is here.

As for the review, yeah, I did feel a bit of, "Wow, they just kinda gave Will a big middle finger there," but I understand it completely. He's complaining about feeling left out of a release that he admittedly doesn't want, anyway (due to the.... music). So, why should anyone care? It'd be like me complaining about not getting any tequila when I don't even like tequila in the first place.
Last edited by Kendamu on Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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