GT - Why didn't they ever change Goku back?

Sprite Satan · Post by **Sprite Satan** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:30 pm

It's not "in-universe" so I figured I'd dump this one here.

Okay, so it is generally agreed upon that Son Goku was turned into a child at the beginning of the Grand Tour (Grand Tour! Grand Tour! Dragon Ball Geeee T!) in order to evoke a sense of adventure and fun reminiscent of the original Dragon Ball.

Which ended by episode... eight-ish when the Parapara Brothers stole their Dragon Ball, leading into Lood, Mu, Rild and Baby.

So why did they (the writers, scenario developers and whoever else) never change Goku back. I mean, I like GT just fine but it has a lot of flimsy spots in its plot anyway. In fact (and perhaps I am wrong) they introduced a rule just to make returning Goku to 'normal' harder! (That being the "Only the Black Star Dragon Balls can cancel a Black Star Dragon Ball wish. Also Piccolo is dead so they don't exist anymore LOL tough breaks")

Would it really have been more of a stretch than a lot of GT to simply have Goku return to his adult self after turning Super Saiyan 4? The Elder Kaioshin could have just went "mumble mumble power of Super Saiyan 4 something something magic whatever." and most people would have just shrugged.

It's not like adult Son Goku was so unpopular they had to remove him. It seems strange that with the abandonment of basically the entire reasoning behind making him a child again that they kept him as is.

Did someone in a position of power really like kid Goku? Did a key animator go "I've drawn him as a child for 30 episodes and I'm not going to stop now, dammit!"? Was it all just half-assed? (Yes)

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:35 pm

Well, it's not like Goku wasn't a child as an adult. The only person it was inconveniencing was Chi-Chi.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:36 pm

I don't mean this to be rude, at all, but my opinion is that I honestly don't care.

To explain that...I guess I would say that Goku is Goku, no matter what. I'm not more attached to adult Goku than child Goku, or vice versa. Of course, GT/filler Goku isn't really Goku to me either, but you get the idea.

So I guess I'll counter with a question of my own. Do you think GT would have been better if he'd become an adult again? I honestly don't think it would have made a big difference.

Milton · Post by **Milton** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:42 pm

Interesting question. I have to wonder if it was more of a merchandising decision to keep him as a child rather than actually having to do with the overall flow of the series. Consider the fact that since there were so many different versions of adult Goku-merchandise during the 10 years Dragonball Z was on television, maybe Bandai wanted something totally different just to make a quick buck. I mean, wasn't Bandai one of the primary sponsors of GT? Knowing how much influence they have when it comes to other series they sponsor (Super Sentai, for example), it makes me wonder.

Sprite Satan · Post by **Sprite Satan** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:43 pm

Bussani wrote:So I guess I'll counter with a question of my own. Do you think GT would have been better if he'd become an adult again?

No. I don't think child Goku ruined GT or anything. There's enough to hurt GT already.

I just find it all so pointless (like GT itself. Har har har).

The only conceivable difference it could make is that it may, may, have made it more palatable for some viewers to accept the whole "Goku is Maximum. Everyone else sucks." thing GT loved to use.

And it opens up yet more conflicts. Like, he transforms into an adult when he is Super Saiyan 4 (Why?) but can't keep it up for too long because his child body can't support it. The one he doesn't have as a Super Saiyan 4.

AndoKomando · Post by **AndoKomando** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:47 pm

They didn't change him back because they would have had to use the black star dragonballs and then they would have to go search for them again.

Sprite Satan · Post by **Sprite Satan** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:48 pm

AndoKomando wrote:They didn't change him back because they would have had to use the black star dragonballs and then they would have to go search for them again.

Yes, I mentioned that but that's just a plot contrivance seemingly designed to keep him as a child. I'm asking why do that.

piccolo-san785 · Post by **piccolo-san785** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:30 pm

AndoKomando wrote:They didn't change him back because they would have had to use the black star dragonballs and then they would have to go search for them again.

He also said in the first episode that he didn't mind being that way

the_abberration · Post by **the_abberration** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:36 pm

In the series he often referenced how his child form messed with some of his abilities. Sometimes he would revert to his child form out of SSJ4 (sort of like Space Ace turing back into Dexter at a bad time).

Goku staying a child was a means by which to handicap his powers. Honestly, an adult Goku would have wiped the floor with everyone he encountered because he was so powerful by the end of Z.

DBZfan29 · Post by **DBZfan29** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:40 pm

It could have been a business move or a mistake. They made it so he couldn't return to normal without the Ultimate Dragon Balls. Then Piccolo died and all hope seemed lost. Those writers could've been like, "damn! why'd we have to kill him!? Now Goku can't return to normal!"

Another thing is that chibi Goku "revives" the spirit of the original Dragon Ball series. If he returned to normal, it would just be like Z without any comedic Dragon Ball moments. Anyone agree? I think my second reason is better than my first...

Post by **Herms** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:38 am

Sprite Satan wrote:Okay, so it is generally agreed upon that Son Goku was turned into a child at the beginning of the Grand Tour (Grand Tour! Grand Tour! Dragon Ball Geeee T!) in order to evoke a sense of adventure and fun reminiscent of the original Dragon Ball.

The actual explanation, related in the GT Perfect Files books, is that Goku had grown so strong by the end of Z that the staff felt that it was necessary to bring him down to size in some way. Which still ties in to the whole "well, that lasted all of 5 seconds" problem you mentioned.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:46 am

I would've found GT much more palatable with an adult Goku. Not changing him back to an adult (use the DB's on New Namek to make the wish?) at the very latest at the Bebi arc, really soured it for me and made about as much sense as Vegeta's awful moostache/haircut, Trunks' neckerchief, and Goten's haircut. (All three of which make me feel all:

)

The fact that they show adult Goku with everybody in the final shot of the 4th GT ED kinda drives it home.

The sour grapes part of me says they only let him remain in adult form for ssj4 because they wanted to give people extra-incentive to like that form. >_>

I'm glad GT's only a side-story.

Sprite Satan · Post by **Sprite Satan** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:47 am

Herms wrote:The actual explanation, related in the GT Perfect Files books, is that Goku had grown so strong by the end of Z that the staff felt that it was necessary to bring him down to size in some way. Which still ties in to the whole "well, that lasted all of 5 seconds" problem you mentioned.

Even worse is that don't try to stick with it very much. I mean, they had a chance to argue that even with new super villains that they too were reasonably scaled back but Rild is mentioned as being stronger than Majin Boo which then sets the tone for the problems you mentioned.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:08 am

the_abberration wrote:In the series he often referenced how his child form messed with some of his abilities. Sometimes he would revert to his child form out of SSJ4 (sort of like Space Ace turing back into Dexter at a bad time).

Goku staying a child was a means by which to handicap his powers. Honestly, an adult Goku would have wiped the floor with everyone he encountered because he was so powerful by the end of Z.

Well, as far as Ki goes, he was stated to have retained it all despite the body change. I'm not sure why exactly that ended up affected his Teleportation and Super Saiya'jin level 3 so much.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:53 am

Damn, that SSJ4 transformation reminds me white Kiba Ranger from Gosei Sentai Dairanger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_7ZW7neJCw

NOTE: He's growing to size of an adult when he transforms

xzero · Post by **xzero** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:46 pm

GT starts off on the right foot. It brings back Pilaf, who we hadn't seen in the last 300-some episodes, and who is an awesome 'bad guy.'

Then, for me, it lost me the second that Goku is wished down to being a child. Unsurprisingly, some of my favorite parts of GT are episodes where Goku is SSJ4 pretty much throughout the entire episode. Honestly, they could have just made it so Goku cannot change back after achieving that form and I would have been fine with it.

As for why they did it? We have the explanation that it was to bring Goku back down a bit and play up the adventuring aspects, but I would guess it was more of a marketing decision. Perhaps someone thought that newcomers to Dragonball would connect more with a child Goku than his adult form, just as kids had done ten years prior when the series debuted.

Naturally, this is just idle speculation, but I think there's some support of this theory. Trunks was probably a pretty popular character during the Cell arc in Japan, so he's a natural choice to bring to the forefront of GT. Pan, a useless character from the very end of Z, could appeal to the same group that a young Goku would appeal to. So my guess is summarized thusly: as a matter of finances and marketing, someone thought that GT would benefit from a young Goku and a new take instead of what it ultimately became a watered down version of: ridiculously strong villain of the month.

B · Post by B » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:57 pm

I always thought it was because Japanese fans generally like Child Goku a lot.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:33 pm

Why didn't they change him back to an adult?
There ... ur... wasn't a need, other than those Technique handycaps, and those were useful (for a whole five seconds.

).

... I'd say I don't understand why people hate that he was turned into a child so much, but theres a _lot_ that the general populus seems to say / do / believe that I disagree with...

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:43 am

B wrote:I always thought it was because Japanese fans generally like Child Goku a lot.

Not to derail the thread...but where did you get your avatar from? (The Krillin and #18 one you had when I made this post..)

DragonBalllKaiHD · Post by **DragonBalllKaiHD** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:53 pm

I never thought of this once- Will GT be much better if everyone has equally power levels? Or fast-pace battles? How would you make GT much better series?

Kanzenshuu

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