Why didn't Vegeta's tail grow back?

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:51 pm

MCDaveG wrote:He sure was drinking beer, my mother always said:If you'll drink it, you won't grow.....

Damn, and I'm really not tall at all, 177 cm, don't know about my tail, Yeah I want him a little bigger, coz' I can't pee when it's -20 degrees of Celsius

What the fuck are you talking about?

Post by **Herms** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:02 pm

Bussani wrote:I'm...unsure of the validity of this interview. Especially since they don't provide an issue number or anything.

Some of the answers match things Toriyama has said in other interviews (the meaning behind "Z", Puar being male), but other answers are kinda suspect (the answer on canon, for instance). And the thing at the end talking about asking "Toriyama-san" fan questions is worded like it was taken from the original Jump issue, but anything in Jump would refer to him as "Toriyama-sensei", not "Toriyama-san". Overall, without an issue number I'd be wary of trusting it. I don't really see Pojo as being a very reliable source of information.

Sshadow5001 · Post by **Sshadow5001** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:18 pm

Rocketman wrote:Because if he had his tail, Vegeta would've gone Super Saiyan 4 in the Android Saga.

GT would have had to come up with something different.

Xane · Post by **Xane** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:27 pm

Tyro wrote:
MCDaveG wrote:He sure was drinking beer, my mother always said:If you'll drink it, you won't grow.....

Damn, and I'm really not tall at all, 177 cm, don't know about my tail, Yeah I want him a little bigger, coz' I can't pee when it's -20 degrees of Celsius
What the fuck are you talking about?

My thoughts exactly. ♭_♭

GizmoKSX · Post by **GizmoKSX** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:29 pm

NeverRamza wrote:Akira Toriyama has apparently addressed this one before. The interview on this website is merely labeled "Interview from an old Shonen Jump issue with Toriyama" but here's what it says:

Q: What happened to Vegeta's tail after he was defeated on Earth?

A: The tail lets you gain tremendous strength instantly by transforming into a giant ape, but the risks are equally great--you'll lose your strength if it's squeezed. Once you're as powerful as Goku and Vegeta the tail just gets in the way. It is thought that the bodies of Saiyans, who are a fighting species, decided that their tails are unnecessary appendages

Really, that ultimately doesn't mean much, bit it is a take from the big man himself.

Aren't Vegeta and Nappa invulnerable to the tail problem that affected Goku and Raditz? I thought someone tried the tail-grabbing tactic during the fight against them and they laughed it off.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:15 pm

GizmoKSX wrote:
NeverRamza wrote:Akira Toriyama has apparently addressed this one before. The interview on this website is merely labeled "Interview from an old Shonen Jump issue with Toriyama" but here's what it says:

Q: What happened to Vegeta's tail after he was defeated on Earth?

A: The tail lets you gain tremendous strength instantly by transforming into a giant ape, but the risks are equally great--you'll lose your strength if it's squeezed. Once you're as powerful as Goku and Vegeta the tail just gets in the way. It is thought that the bodies of Saiyans, who are a fighting species, decided that their tails are unnecessary appendages

Really, that ultimately doesn't mean much, bit it is a take from the big man himself.
Aren't Vegeta and Nappa invulnerable to the tail problem that affected Goku and Raditz? I thought someone tried the tail-grabbing tactic during the fight against them and they laughed it off.

Yeah...Goku also accomplished that by the time of the 22nd Tenka'ichi Budokai. Yet Raditz never did.

Which kind of shoots a hole in either that interview's legitimacy or Toriyama-sensei's memory.

Post by **Herms** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:50 pm

Duo wrote:Which kind of shoots a hole in either that interview's legitimacy or Toriyama-sensei's memory.

Well, I don't think Toriyama's memory needs any more holes shot in it, but I do question the legitimacy of that interview as well.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:18 pm

Herms wrote:
Duo wrote:Which kind of shoots a hole in either that interview's legitimacy or Toriyama-sensei's memory.
Well, I don't think Toriyama's memory needs any more holes shot in it, but I do question the legitimacy of that interview as well.

This magical internet place is full of claims of "Toriyama said this" and "Toriyama said that" from web page to shining web page. Fortunately this has trained virtually every member of the Daizex - Kanzentai communities to tread a little carefully :)

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:10 pm

It's Pojo. Need there be more said?

Also, this may be false memory, but can't stronger Saiyans - such as Goku, Vegeta and Nappa - make it so their tails are no longer weak?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:35 pm

bkev wrote:Also, this may be false memory, but can't stronger Saiyans - such as Goku, Vegeta and Nappa - make it so their tails are no longer weak?

Yep, Nappa and Vegeta had done it when we met them, and Goku had trained his tail by the time the 22nd Budokai rolled around. Raditz is the only one we've seen who still retained that weakness into his adulthood.

Gaffer Tape · Post by **Gaffer Tape** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:34 am

Yeah, I have to say I find that weird that Goku was so sure that grabbing Raditz's tail would be a sure-fire strategy, and neither he nor anybody else even mentions the possiblity, "Um, well, you trained your tail as a child, and this guy is a lot stronger than you AND actually knows what species he belongs to, so don't you think he might have done the same thing?" And since Goku is apparently aware that Saiya-jin can remove their tails at will... WTF was that strategy?! A miracle it worked the first time, Goku's naivety aside.

For that matter, I always wondered why Ozaru Gohan didn't lose his strength when Vegeta was pulling on it trying to yank it out. Didn't seem to bother Gohan. He just smacked Vegeta away. Then again, I don't think it was ever proven that Gohan had that weak point. Maybe his human blood...? Or the human/Saiya-jin hybrid power potential eliminates that?

Anyway, as for the adults can't grow them back... it sounds like a good theory except for that fact that Gohan's only grew back once and stopped growing back after he was five. Again, being a hybrid, he's something of an anomaly. My opinion is... that there's no rule. It's not like a lizard's tail or regeneration where they can just be grown back at will. It's totally random. For some people (like Goku), they will grow back constantly. For others, like Gohan and Vegeta, it's just not going to happen.

As for why it happened in real life, I'm a fan of the theory that Toriyama was just sick of tails. I think it was more of a liability in the writing: the fact that major characters should, every 30 days, transform into giant monsters. It's just not convenient. The excuse that the Son family "went to bed early" was a lame enough excuse for Goku and Chichi to never see Gohan transform. Think about it. We see Goku transform once... then his tail is removed to prevent it happening again. But, most likely because Goku's tail is such a prominent characteristic, Toriyama wanted to bring it back. What's the solution? Get rid of the moon! Now Goku can look like Goku, and Toriyama doesn't have to worry about that plot point again. But I guess he didn't like the way Goku looked as an adult with the tail, which is why he got rid of it. Why not put back the moon? Then give Gohan and Vegeta a couple of transformations to tie back in to the whole Saiya-jin roots thing and be done with it for good. No moon again. But especially since Vegeta entered the mix, and they were traveling to other planets, and Vegeta could create a fake moon at any time he wanted, I'm sure it was just easier to keep all the characters tailless forever and never worry about them again. I really doubt Toriyama forgot about Vegeta's tail... well, maybe he did eventually, but not in regards to the, "It will grow back on its own" line. I doubt he had any intention to grow it back at that point, but that line was probably there to shut up the fans.

What's always intrigued me the most was the status of Trunks's and Goten's tails. I don't like the fan theory that Vegeta would have removed Trunks's since it doesn't seem like something Vegeta would do, and he wasn't around for much of Trunks's infancy either. Toriyama does address it: unless it's a Vizism, the manga has Kuririn ask Bulma what happened to his tail, but it's never answered, which is presumably why this line is left out of the anime.

Post by **Herms** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:54 am

Duo wrote:This magical internet place is full of claims of "Toriyama said this" and "Toriyama said that" from web page to shining web page. Fortunately this has trained virtually every member of the Daizex - Kanzentai communities to tread a little carefully :)

Hujio has a list of all known interviews with Toriyama or other important DB people (well, know to him and I, at least). I'm thinking of one of these days going through all the Toriyama ones and making an index of the statements he makes. I mean, not everything he says, but just stuff that seems important (though that brings up the question of what's important).

Gaffer Tape wrote:Toriyama does address it: unless it's a Vizism, the manga has Kuririn ask Bulma what happened to his tail, but it's never answered, which is presumably why this line is left out of the anime.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it is in the orignal too.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:56 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:Yeah, I have to say I find that weird that Goku was so sure that grabbing Raditz's tail would be a sure-fire strategy, and neither he nor anybody else even mentions the possiblity

Uh... There was a ton of build-up towards that moment, and Goku even stated that it was his strategy to grab his tail right before the battle, as that was his weak-point as a kid...

What's wrong with him expecting the same to be the case with Raditz?

Gaffer Tape · Post by **Gaffer Tape** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:59 am

Um, did you read the rest of that paragraph? Because Goku, who was very weak compared to Raditz and did not have any knowledge of his heritage was able to rid himself of the same weakness as a child... well, teenager. Why would he assume that Raditz would not have been able to do the same thing? Why would they not even worry about it?

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:03 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:Why would he assume that Raditz would not have been able to do the same thing? Why would they not even worry about it?

Well, perhaps he was just hoping it would work. I mean, it's worth a shot right?

Piccolo did the same thing with Nappa as well however, and he was one of the most cunning of the fighters at the time.

Post by **Herms** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:37 am

Metalwario64 wrote:Well, perhaps he was just hoping it would work. I mean, it's worth a shot right?

It's still weird that nobody even mentions the possibility that Raditz could have rid himself of that weakness. I mean, Goku proposes his tail-grabbing plan to Kuririn, who tried the same thing on Goku at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai only to have it fail miserably because Goku had trained himself to overcome that weakness. So it's at least a little strange that Kuririn doesn't bring that up.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:24 am

Herms wrote:
Metalwario64 wrote:Well, perhaps he was just hoping it would work. I mean, it's worth a shot right?
It's still weird that nobody even mentions the possibility that Raditz could have rid himself of that weakness. I mean, Goku proposes his tail-grabbing plan to Kuririn, who tried the same thing on Goku at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai only to have it fail miserably because Goku had trained himself to overcome that weakness. So it's at least a little strange that Kuririn doesn't bring that up.

Well, this is Toriyama we're talkin' about here![/obligatory joke about Toriyama's forgetfulness]

RogueA007 · Post by **RogueA007** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:25 pm

Bussani wrote:
NeverRamza wrote:
IncompetentOverlord wrote:Could you provide a link please?
Ah yes, I intended to.

http://www.pojo.com/dragonball/intervie ... yama.shtml

I imagine this interview was just scavenged from someplace else at one point.
I'm...unsure of the validity of this interview. Especially since they don't provide an issue number or anything.

*Sits back and waits for Herms.*

Oh, Pojo. Always stealing stuff.

I have no clue where the first two came from, but it appears that the rest of the interview minus the dumb "Toriyama-San" stuff at the end was horribly stolen from the "Ask Akira Toriyama!" article from US Shonen Jump #1. Including the question about the tails.

*scans*

http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m27/ ... iyama1.jpg
http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m27/ ... riyama.jpg

I wouldn't blame Toriyama for being a little um, forgetful from time to time...I'm sure he has some answers in rote memory for whenever he needs to explain- plus all the answers in this article appear to be a bit brief anyways.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:31 pm

RogueA007 wrote:Oh, Pojo. Always stealing stuff.

I have no clue where the first two came from, but it appears that the rest of the interview minus the dumb "Toriyama-San" stuff at the end was horribly stolen from the "Ask Akira Toriyama!" article from US Shonen Jump #1. Including the question about the tails.

*scans*

http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m27/ ... iyama1.jpg
http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m27/ ... riyama.jpg

I wouldn't blame Toriyama for being a little um, forgetful from time to time...I'm sure he has some answers in rote memory for whenever he needs to explain- plus all the answers in this article appear to be a bit brief anyways.

Wow, good memory! I really didn't think some of those sounded real, but a lot of the others in the interview are ones we've heard before (like tails being recessive). Thanks for the scans.

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece · Post by **Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:44 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:
Lance Freeman wrote:Maybe Toriyama just got lazy, and decided to get rid of the tails altogether.
That's the real answer. I think he got annoyed with having so many characters with tails that he just decided to stop drawing them. He seems like a lazy artist, I mean the whole super Saiyan thing came about because he was sick of wasting ink on Goku's hair.

The better answer is Adult Sayians can't grow their tails back. I actually like that theory.

Yeah, the same thing happened with Vegeta's scars (while he's showering before Freeza comes back, or while he's training. Not sure which one, but it's before Goku returns to Earth).

Rocketman wrote:Because if he had his tail, Vegeta would've gone Super Saiyan 4 in the Android Saga.

Broly still had his tail throughout his entire movie trilogy, and he wasn't a Super Saiyan 4, so I don't see how Vegeta would have been able to pull it off.

Of course, that's a movie...