DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

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xzero
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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by xzero » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:43 pm

GS7X7 wrote:(And I wonder, does my successful "dual-music on dvd"s petition and work deserve to be "criticized" and "put in it's place"?)
I sort of remember that petition. Don't misinterpret this question; I'm just curious. Did you ever get a response on it indicating that the petition was the basis upon which Funimation did the dual-music option on the Orange Bricks?

It seems to me that the dual-music thing was not so much a response to fan complaints as it was a logical business decision. I think Chris Sabat is the person (or one of the key individuals, at least) who is now primarily responsible for DBZ's handling domestically. Ten years ago, changing the music made sense from a business perspective because it contributed to bringing in new American fans. I'm not saying the Japanese BGM wouldn't have had the same effect, but outside of the Daizex universe, there are a lot of people who liked the Faulconer dub score. Having been introduced to DBZ through that and the other dub changes, the Orange Bricks are kind of the transitional phase where both options are presented in order to introduce fans to something different while simultaneously retaining the familiar. Lastly, the current DBox releases are [mostly] the way that Funimation would handle a more modern domestic release, with the dub script and acting for some episodes notwithstanding.

I guess my point is that absent confirmation, claiming that complaints, whether voiced through email, phone calls, a website, or a petition, led to any real success is circular logic. It presupposes that the complaints were the primary impetus for releasing the dual-music DVDs, and then credits them with the release after the fact. I think the anime market outside of DBZ may have had a much more substantial effect on the decision to start moving toward more accuracy. I am willing to bet that a Kai dub (if one ever materializes) will be ridiculously accurate to the original, music and all. That wouldn't be because fans complain; it's because the current anime market forces favor accuracy over Americanization. This is distinguishable from the market forces back in DBZ's heyday when everyone was buying up the single DVDs with only two audio options.

I'm sure Funimation listened to the complaints, and they may have played some role. But without confirmation that the complaints led to the new approach to DBZ, it doesn't seem that they should be credited.



As an aside, GS7X7, I do want to point out that, though sometimes over the top and lacking in factual support, your opinion pieces on the old Otaku Alliance sites were always fun to read. I disagreed with you on some issues, but I always enjoyed reading your thoughts on new DBZ-related products that Funimation was releasing.

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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:51 pm

GS7X7 wrote:Ex, you don't know me or anything about me. I have grown up and moved on but if someone wants to attack me and I think some of the complaints are unfair, then I'll defend myself.

You did the exact same thing when you wrote a very lengthy editorial on your site defending yourself when Seashore Angel sent an e-mail flaming and attacking you. You didn't just "ignore it" or "get off the internet." That having been said I don't see why you think it's okay that you defended yourself but that you don't think I should defend myself.


(And I wonder, does my successful "dual-music on dvd"s petition and work deserve to be "criticized" and "put in it's place"?)
And here's your main problem, which I am noticing from everything you've written so far -- you get so emotionally defensive that it's near-impossible to actually follow what it is you're trying to say.

What are you trying to say? Your example of "Seashore Angel" (whatever that is) seems to be irrelevant, and if it isn't, I can't follow it for the life of me. Are you saying that people should not be able to / do not have the right to criticize and analyze things that have been written on the internet in the past? Bullshit. You wrote them, you made them public, so deal with it. I don't need to know you or anything about you to read the words that you made the personal decision to write online, and for better or worse, I am free and welcome to make any judgments about you based on those words.

I've already given you the proper "out" though -- I entirely agree with you that we should not inherently and necessarily be tied to the same opinions and beliefs that we expressed, oh... let's say a decade prior. I know I sure don't. I agree with a lot of what I said back in, oh... let's say 1999... but not necessarily all of it. I've already explained to you that I totally agree with you! We should be given the proper respect and have people acknowledge that punk kids running around the internet may have said things that weren't based in the best research and life-lessons, and I don't know that people are giving that proper respect.

But there's the problem. Whoever this "GS7X7" person is only has this one, pin-pointed, narrow set of beliefs and expressions with which to judge him by. They're from a while ago. There's nothing else to go on. I am in a different position -- I've not only been around, but consistently continuing my contributions, giving people a wealth of opinions and actions with which to judge me by. That gives me a more unique-situation where my perception can and will change over time with people. Maybe.

You don't have that luxury, and it's pissing you off. What we're seeing happen is that you don't like that fact, and you jump back into the same childish defensive mode that people are criticizing from so many years back. You're playing the same character. You're perpetuating the same nonsense. You're giving them exactly what they need to not only justify their criticisms, but elaborate upon them. You've become a parody of yourself with these defensive posts.

Not only that, but some of it is delusional. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way you can take any claim for dual-music DVDs. You made no impact. You didn't help with that, I didn't help with that, and none of us should think that we did. It was a natural business move for them, and based on a collective-whole of fandom, rather than some nerds at their internet keyboards.

DVDs at all in the first place? Sure, fans that approached FUNimation with an actual business proposal and business model can take some credit for that. Dragon Boxes? Maybe. Maybe a subset of fandom can take credit for that, or at least providing an incentive for them to examine it. The orange bricks and any facet of them? Absolutely not.

There's just no humility anywhere in anything you write. A simple, "Man, shit was crazy, huh?" would suffice and show some amount of growth. A whine-fest doesn't accomplish that.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
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:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

GS7X7
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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by GS7X7 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:07 am

My involvement with the dual-music petitions was this....

It was sometime back in the summer of 2002/2003. I was speaking to someone who was once a figure from the Dbz community (I don't want to say who since the person asked to remain anonymous but I will say that he was a "real" nice guy- some oldtimers may get that reference, please keep it to yourself if you do) asking for advice on how to get Funimation to go with the original soundtrack for the dub instead of replacing all the music.

He gave me the advice of a dual-music petition. He said it'd be the perfect compromise to Funimation with the dub soundtrack, instead of just outright demanding that they eliminate using dub music and go straight for the original soundtrack. So, I went with the petition idea and wrote something up.

http://www.petitiononline.com/7878hgfh/petition.html


However- at the time I didn't take credit for writing the petition. The reason why of course- was because my site bashed Funimation heavily and I was very insulting to the company years ago. I had the good sense to be anonymous about writing it and instead I allowed a friend from back then I trusted to take credit. (he went by Nephalim I think?)

That friend then called up Funimation and spoke to Evan Jones, who was then the main music guy at the company. They had a good long discussion over the phone... turns out Evan was a pretty cool guy overall. Evan was also extremely interested in the petition. He thanked my friend and called the idea something like, "a seed that I'd like to see grow." After that, it was time to get people to sign the petition.

Only 3 sites bothered to publicly support it. (mine being one of them) Ultimately it only got about 500 signatures. My friend became pretty disillusioned over the whole thing- "people would rather spend several hours insulting you and flaming you and calling you stupid rather then spending 5 minutes signing a petition"- and he kind of just dropped off the face of the earth. Last I remember he told Evan how disillusioned he was with the petition getting little to no support then I never really heard from the guy again. Both of us gave up on the petition and considered it to have been a dud.

But then years later I found out about Funimation including a dual-soundtrack option- and I was very happy and excited. I felt like all my hard work had made a difference.... and you know what? I was very proud and happy about that and about my work because that all led up to the petition.

Maybe it would happened anyway without any of my work back in the day- then again, maybe it wouldn't have. One thing IS for certain- Funimation's idea to include dual-soundtrack options (both dub and original) was a pretty original idea that HAD never been done before by ANY anime company before. I certainly know who originally gave Funimation the idea- yours truly.

And THAT is why I take credit for the dual-soundtrack coming back and why I feel I had a hand in that. If anyone wishes to believe my actions had no bearing on the dual-soundtrack options happening and that it would happened anyway, go ahead. I, however, believe that efforts did bear fruit (and that the seed did indeed "grow"), and I certainly don't consider myself mentally "delusional" for believing that and certainly not arrogant. Rather, I consider myself proud for something very special that I was able to accomplish through all my hard work. Whereas others adopted the "we don't care" attitude I chose not to, and my caring actually did lead to something. I did make an impact there and I am happy to take credit for what I accomplished.


As for the cursing in Movie 9- yeah, I do take credit for that as well, though obviously that's much more minor than the music issue. But back in the day my site was pretty popular- and I had tons of followers that I often "sic'd" on Funimation's e-mails issue complaints about stuff, the cursing issue being one of them.

Aside from those two things I did help introduce many new fans to the original while converting them away from the dub. All the grateful e-mails I got from back when my site was most active attest to that.


Do I think everything I did was completely perfect and awesome? No I don't- most of my movie reviews I don't like (tv specials to 5 I thought were atrocious- something I actually have commented on before, Ex, regardless of whether you forgot me saying that or simply didn't remember) and I'm not as gung-ho fanatical- or overly insulting- as I used to be.


People have a right to criticize me, I never said I'm completely above that despite what Ex believes. However, on the same hand I don't accept a complete and -utter- rejection of every single thing I ever said or did on that site is purified shit. To say that I find unfair and if anyone says that then I'll stand up for myself in that regard.

If you can spend time explaining why my interview with Fournier (the Toei Employee who posts here) or my editorial on how to play the European edition of DBZ Budokai on an American console suck and reek horribly, maybe then you can say that "everything" I ever said or did completely sucked and was wrong. But if you can't and until you do... well, then I'm going to defend myself in that regard.


And Ex, are you really surprised that reading blistering attacks would cause someone to become overly-defensive? How exactly would you expect someone to react in such a situation- "right on, everything I did f'ng sucked back then! I hate all of my work, it was all terrible, everybody join in in flaming it!"?

Like you said you've pretty much been around the community since forever and you haven't stopped except for one short break. I was only around back then for a few years.
So when someone does a complete dismissal of everything from back then that does sting me because that's all I did, I haven't just been pumping out content nonstop like you and giving people nonstop updates on how every single one of my views regarding Funimation and life in general have evolved and changed over the years. Just because I have not been here nonstop repeatedly telling people everything about me and every single time a belief or view of mine has changed does not mean that I should automatically have to accept fully any blanket-criticism of my entire character and everything I've ever said or done.


(also, here's the editorial in question in response to Seashore Angel that you wrote.... again.

http://web.archive.org/web/200106250737
+
20/vegex.pokeball.net/thoughts/
+ thought_21.shtml

I showed this to you months ago on this board and you didn't bother to read it then! How can I expect to have a proper debate with you on anything when you don't even bother to read everything said in response to your remarks? Not bothering to read everything said in response by someone before attacking that person shows a certain level of... hmm... well, I wouldn't use the word maturity. I'd appreciate it if you actually bother reading it this time instead of ignoring it and then flaming me in confusion if I ever mention Seashore Angel and your editorial again. Ah screw it, I'm just going to post your editorial defense of yourself here after my post is done so you won't have an excuse for not reading it once again.)


For that matter this past year or so I've been I have not been the least been insulting to you on this board but you have been very rude to me before and I've repeatedly borne your insults without insulting you back. To me that seemed before like the mature way to deal with you, instead of simply responding back to your insults and rude treatment with similar insults and rude treatment- while to me your behavior to me has seemed to me.... oh yeah, immature, the exact same thing which you're accusing me of. You act like you're a paragon of all things maturity and humility and then you flame the crap out of me and treat me in an extremely condescending and rude fashion with no provocation towards you on my part.

You're quick to label my behavior in a certain way but you should look to your own behavior as well and try to understand your own flaws and how others might view you and feel about you based on the way you treat them. I often find that those who are the quickest to praise themselves as being mature while excessively attacking others for not being so are often times being anything but mature themselves in behaving in this manner.

No matter how strongly you disagree with someone there is no need to resort to excessively insulting, rude and overly personal attacks. If you're searching for ways in which I've matured and evolved over the years then that's certainly area I've done so- or at least I try to do so. You should try to do the same in that area.







(Here's the your editorial in question, EX. I'm only posting it here because you didn't bother reading this editorial- and then you insulted me for mentioning something within it that you didn't remember it all- even though I linked you to it months ago.)

--------------
First 'Response to an E-mail' Since 1998!
by Mike LaBrie (VegettoEX)

Originally Posted: 4 May 2001

This is something I haven't done in about two years, now.. x_X;;. It's very rare that I get a very in-depth and thought-provoking e-mail, and when I do, I love to share it, to just show the varying sides of the e-mail world. This is a special e-mail, though; it's not because it concerns my last "Staff Thought," but because it brings up a lot of points that I bet a lot of other people are thinking about myself and the way I write. Hopefully, I can clear everything up, since I obviously didn't do so in my last editorial.

This e-mail was written to me back on 25 March 2001 by Ryan Ringer (who goes by the name of "DBZOA Android 17," or simply "Android 17" on various message boards, in case you might have come across him in your travels). I wanted to give the e-mail a little bit of time to sink in; I don't like responding to things immediately, because I think there needs to be an absorption and thinking time in-between. Also, I spent the course of about four days writing, revising, and going back to add more things in as they came up, so don't give me that, "Oh, he spent all that time writing that, he's got no life" bullshit. :P

I feel that it sometimes helps to read the e-mail as a whole before I start responding to particular parts of it, so if you'd like to do that, click here to read just the e-mail. From here on out, I will put Ryan's word in red, and my own in this standard black.

I used to be a big fan of you site until you started preaching FUNimation as the messiah in every update. But this isn't about that.

Well, I'm not quite sure when I ever said that FUNimation is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but whatever... there's much more to what you have to say.

People have labeled you as a sellout, kiss-ass, traitor, hypocrite and arrogant. They are certainly justified in this (except for the sell-out part, even I'm almost certain you're not receiving money from FUNimation. I agree those people need to give that a rest.) Ever since you "stopped caring" (which I still don't believe, considering you run a Dragon Ball website) about Dragon Ball, you have grown increasingly supportive of FUNimation, completely ignoring the fact that you lead the fight against the dub at one point. It's okay to be indifferent, but when you start defending a company you spoke out against for so many years, how can you not expect to be bombarded with flames?

It appears that my "Not Caring" editorial was completely misunderstood by this individual. It's not that I don't care about "DragonBall" anymore (I always have, and always will; it's somehow become a part of my life over the last.. what.. six, seven years.. ?); it's that I just don't care enough about the treatment of the dub to make it a daily part of my routine to go out of my way to bash it and everything it stands for. I've been running this website for over three years now; I'm sorry, but it's gotten VERY OLD for not just me, but for the majority of the visitors, for me to say "the dub sucks" in each and every single update. I think the majority of people have gotten the hint over the course of this time. In fact, I've gotten quite a few e-mails from people that have been into everything for as long as I, wondering how much longer I was going to keep up the daily "the dub sucks" ordeal. The dub isn't on-par with any other dub (OK, so maybe the "Cardcaptor Sakura" dub.. I wouldn't even call it a dub.. is just as bad, if not worse), but I don't think it's natural for me to keep taking the time to CONTINUE to talk trash about it. It's just gotten stale for me, that's all.

Now, "defending" the company isn't something I like to think I did in the last editorial; I was merely explaining the technical specifics of DVDs, and applying these specifics to their own (FUNimation's) productions.

The arrogance and hypocrisy is a big thing too. Quite frankly, you treat the readers of your site like worthless peons, and people who don't share your exact opinions like garbage. If someone downloads full episodes or buys fansubs, they're bootlegging scum because they're not buying DVD's because a) they can't afford them or b) they simply don't want to support the company who's destroyed one of their favorite shows. And yet, do you not own fansubs? Have you gone through your fansub collection and burned them all because FUNimation is now releasing DVD's? I doubt it. And hey, doesn't your site contain FREE MP3's? There was a word for that, but I just can't think of it... was it bootlegging? Yeah, that's the term. So someone who distributes bootlegged copies of music is just okay, but someone who distributes bootlegged copies of a TV show is bootlegging scum. Where is the logic there? Exactly, there is none.

For someone who's criticizing my supposed arrogance and hypocrisy, it kinda irked me as to what the tone of the e-mail seemed to be. It's one thing to send an e-mail questioning my actions, but to come across as arrogant and then attack my own supposed arrogancy.. well, it's just bothersome to me. Also, for someone who's said, "Personally, I don't visit the site at all (hardly ever anyway)," it's funny to find you accusing me of being like such on my site.

I don't remember any time when I've ever treated one of my visitors like garbage over differing views. I've kindly asked every single person who's stated this over the last three years to come up with a specific example that they've seen (verbatim; not just your own skewed views) to show me and prove to me... not a single one has been able to come up with any kind of evidence to support this.

The only kind of "visitors" I've treated badly are the ones who came TO ME acting like a little dickwad, in an attempt to bother me (ya' know the type.. the ones that just I'm you out of nowhere with the whole, "You're gay" thing). These have been the ones showcased in the "Mailbag" section over the course of my site's time. I think it's perfectly justified to show this off; if you'd have actually paid attention to the real contents of the mailbag, you'd also notice that I've posted dozens of positive e-mail, and none of these have gotten crude replies. Also, questions that are asked over and over have been posted in the mailbag, and never received an ill response.

Isn't the cliché something like, "Treat others as you want to be treated?"

Next comes the monetary debates. You're assuming that each and every single person who downloads full episodes is someone who can't afford DVDs; I find this to be an utterly gross assumption. Someone who's downloading full episodes is probably on a fast connection, and people with fast connections probably have some kind of stable income. If this is the case, I don't see what's wrong with purchasing a legal copy of an anime...

Which brings up the subject of downloading episodes, again. You seem to express interest in doing such, or at least not going out of your way to say that it's wrong to download episodes. One would assume that you... don't have a problem with the bootlegging of episodes? I'm not entirely sure; I'm simply going from what I'm able to read.

I'm a little confused at this, because it somewhat contradicts a post you've made, which states that you, quote, "... want it to be back in the days where the only people who knew about it were people who spend [sic] money on it."

It's not just me that feels that you should actually *purchase* your anime; every single anime fandom group outside of the "DragonBall" one seems to have some kind of ethical code. The "DragonBall" community is looked down upon by every single other faction of the anime world. One reason is because of the gross bootlegging that occurs. So what if you don't like what FUNimation does to "your show"? This doesn't give you an immediate legal right to begin infringing upon their legally purchased copyright laws. Sure, I don't like the dub either.... I don't watch it, and don't support it with my money. Is it killing me? Of course not. I like some things... that's OK, right? I mean, you HAVE said, "As far as I'm concerned, EX is entitled to his opinions, just as we all are."

There *are* alternatives. If you get Telemundo or the International Channel, watch the programs on there. The Spanish dub is relatively uncensored, and the International Channel airs the show in its original Japanese glory.

If you don't have access to either of these, your other options include the DVDs. Sure there are no eye-catches or Japanese previews, but good god... does this actually change the show? It sickens me to see people actually *boycott* the DVDs over these two sole fact. Sure, the DVDs aren't the best ones in the anime market, but they do include the original Japanese version of the show, exactly as it was shown on TV... just missing two little things. Big deal. As I said before.. did Vegeta still go Super Saiya-jin against Jinzoningen 19 Gou in the episode, even though there's no eye-catches and no Japanese preview at the end?

Of course he did.

Next come the continuing feeble attempts to destroy my credibility by bringing up the topic of me owning fansubs. Again, as I've clearly shown over the years, I publicly share my list of anime, both fansubbed and commercially purchased.

I BUY THE COMMERCIAL RELEASE OF NEARLY EVERY SINGLE FANSUB I OWN, WHETHER I LIKE IT OR NOT.

For a complete listing of all anime I own (VHS fansub, VHS commercial, DVD commercial), please click here.

Notice any similarities? You should. Please note that I don't own as many dubbed DBZ videos as I should, simply because I'm waiting for the DVDs to be released. I've had my "Frieza: The Summoning" disc on pre-order for months! ^^.

Fansubs are NOT meant to replace a legit copy of your anime. They never were, and never will be. Any actual fansubber will tell you this; most fansub distros take commercial anime off their distribution list THE VERY DAY a press release is issued with the announcement of a title.

This is how it all worked before the majority of "DragonBall" fanboys of today came along, and decided it wasn't worth it to have any kind of morality to their fandom (so to speak, in regards to fansubs). Again, just because you may not like what FUNimation does to your show, it doesn't give you any kind of legal right to rip them off.

Theeeeeeen.... comes the issues of MP3s. There's one difference here, between mp3s and fansubs of DBZ stuff... the CDs have no commercial license, nor is there is absolutely any intention of any company to release them.

I've said time and time again... once a company announces that they're releasing the CDs here, you'll see those respective CDs disappear for download.

Let's look at your latest staff thought. You go through with a fine tooth comb all of the most idiotic and small arguements about the DVD's and act like everyone is making a huge deal of them, and defend them with everything you have. It's pretty much been established at this point that sound quality can't get better and the video quality is good considering the source. And the main complaint about the menus is that they contain that awful dub music. You conviniently forgot to mention this.

This actually bothered me more than anything else in the entire e-mail.

Since when was it wrong for me to actually provide a detailed argument?

I spent weeks going through message boards, websites, personal e-mails, and the like, trying to come up with an extremely detailed list of things people have issues with in the DVDs. I wanted to get around to each and every single one of them, to have the most complete editorial I could. I'm a perfectionist; I strive for my absolute best.

Because I did thorough research, you're telling me that I'm defending them with everything I had?

YES, I think we've beaten the sound issue into the dust, and YES, I think we've beaten the video issue into the dust... but they're still there, and I still wanted to bring them up.

I think it's horribly unfair of you to criticize me simply because I wanted to have the most detailed editorial I could. It's not just unfair, it's disgusting.

As for the menus containing the dub music... I never saw this come up on anything I looked it, and honestly, it never occurred to me, since I'm not on menus for very long. Load, click, change language, click, play. BOOM, it's done.

To further go with this problem, with the release of the "Frieza: The Summoning" discs, it appears that all menu music is newly composed for the DVD menus, themselves. It might not be the Japanese music, but you can no longer complain about it being music from the TV dub.

As for extras, let's not forget this is a DVD. DVD's have extras. Period. I've never watched a DVD without extras. Why should it just be overlooked that FUNimation puts no effort into making extras? (The commercials don't count as extras, because they aren't, they're commercials to sell products disguised as extras. And that World of Dragon Ball was taken from Pioneer's "Arrival" VHS and put on the "Z Warriors Prepare" tape, and then onto the DVD's.)

I've seen plenty of DVDs without extras. The "Flint the Time Detective" DVDs not only don't have extras, they don't even include the original Japanese audio track on them. The very same thing goes for "Street Fighter II: The Animated Movie" (no Japanese audio track). If commercials don't count as extras, then I guess it's time to start attacking other companies for putting commercials as part of the "Extras" on their DVDs (Pioneer, Bandai, ADV).

BTW... "World of DragonBall" was done by FUNimation for the "Z Warriors Prepare" video.. it's narrated by Chris Sabat.. it includes scenes from season three... Pioneer doesn't own the rights to season three, nor is Chris Sabat a voice actor they hire, and there's no way they could release it on their "Arrival" DVD. Yes, it combines footage from seasons one through three, but it's still a FUNimation production.

Also, the way you insult fans who don't like FUNimation is quite stereotypical. You make us all out to be a bunch of blabbering idiots, and you should know from your years of being in the Dragon Ball community that we are not. You used to be anti-FUNimation, is that correct? So by your logic I could assume that you were a blabbering moron who repeated the same "I hate FUNimation because they suck" gibberish over and over again. And you also group 2 groups of fans as one. Some say "We'd like interviews with dub voice actors". The same people do not then say "But we don't like the dub voice actors". That is a completely different group of people, which I am a part of. (You will never find a bigger anti-fan of Sean Schemmel and his unprofessional and anti-Japanese comments, and by unprofessional, I mean this: http://dbzoa.terrashare.com/Android17/sean.html html Tell me you can still kiss his ass him after that.) You do this once again when you mention the rate of release. Some people want faster, others want slower, and others like me want more episodes per disc, released at a reasonable rate, so that people can afford them AND the series can be released this decade. We are not all in the same group of people. If person A and person B have differing opinions, person A is not a hypocrite for being unhappy when person B's views take form. You were a lot better at presenting arguements having to do with fans when you actually kept in touch with the fan base. You know, when they weren't out to lynch you because you turned on them and sided with the one you were leading the fight against. Now you treat the same fans who once looked up to you the way you once treated FUNimation, it's really quite intriguing. But anyway, the affordable thing brings me to my, or rather your next arguement.

Geeze, since when did I start treating fans who don't like FUNimation like "blabbering idiots"? I don't ever recall this. It seems to be an example of playing into the persona you label me with, without ever doing any kind of research on the matter what-so-ever. Again, as I've stated a few paragraphs before, I've asked every person who's ever tried to use this as an argument with me to actually come up with an example of me treating someone who doesn't like FUNimation like such... and not one of them has been able to.

I'm actually very interested if you can come up with something. I don't recall getting into a drunken stupor and insulting fans, anytime lately x_X;;.

As my Expository Writing II professor says, I should "make the connection explicitly clear"; I don't like the dub, but I like the DVDs, therefore it would be impossible for me to be anti-FUNimation. I both dislike and like some of the things they do.

Not once have I ever been "anti-FUNimation." You've never seen me taking the tacky side of things and putting up "I HATE FUNIMATION" banners up all over my site, or by putting up a picture of Gotenks with his middle finger up, with anti-FUNimation text over it (and then running off to write for a dubbie-magazine). I've always taken a stand against things I think FUNimation has done wrong, but I've done the same thing for tons of other companies. I think the horrible video transfer Pioneer did with the first few discs of "Trigun" was horrible, but I wouldn't say I'm "anti-Pioneer." I think the first couple discs of "Rurouni Kenshin" were very horribly done (from a technical standpoint), and disc five's opening animation had an encoded bitrate of that of a low quality RealVideo file... but I hardly think I'm "anti-Media Blasters."

From what I gather (from reading your e-mail and the majority of your message board posts), YOU seem to be very anti-FUNimation. Let me ask you this (not necessarily you, personally, but a collective"you," referring to any anti-FUNimation person)... have you purchased an official "DragonBall Z" T-shirt? Do you know how much FUNimation is making off of you with that one purchase? A single T-shirt costs approximately five dollars to make, if not less. FIVE DOLLARS. Shirts cost about $15 in the mall, so figure there are two portions in there: profit of the retailer, and profit of FUNimation. Figure out the math for yourself. Are you truly being "anti" FUNimation, now? You're supporting the very people you seem to "hate" so much.

I always try to point out the good and bad things about FUNimation. Sure, there's a lot of bad things, and sure there's a lot of good things. In fact, in the sixth editorial I ever wrote for my website (this is way back in 1998.. god, it seems so long ago), I come right out and say, "There are some thing I do like about the dub (although there are a lot more things I dislike about it)." It's both sickening and amusing to me that whenever I happen to say something GOOD about them, the entire anti-FUNi group jumps all over me, proclaiming that I'm a sellout (yet they fail to mention my daily routine of saying how much the music sucked during season three and four).

The whole Sean Schemmel thing is something I'm not associated with, so don't like to go into too much detail with it. I've never met him, and I've never spoken with himI think Sean's done some both good and bad voice acting, and not all of it is his fault, and some of it is.

If anyone's been to the page mentioned by Ryan about Sean Schemmel, the very bottom has a quote with Sean saying he's watched EVA; the person who's logged this then goes on to explain that this *obviously* means that Sean thinks the DBZ dub is as good as EVA's, which means he's an idiot, since the EVA dub is better than DBZs' dub... anyone else see something wrong here? And so what if Sean wants to use the word "fuck" in a chat room. I think it's unfair to use this as an example, when your signature on (at least) the Planet Namek messgae board contains, "PS: Join the DBZOA or your dick will shrink three sizes."

"Keeping in touch with the fan base"... just because I don't post on the Planet Namek board, anymore, doesn't mean I don't keep in touch with the fan base. On many occasions you'll see me hanging out in the same chatrooms on AOL that I helped "found," in a sense, so long ago. Sure, it's not the same group of people, but I love chilling in there every once in a while to see what all the new guys have to say. I go into quite a few IRC rooms almost daily. I lurk throughout a ton of message boards. I've been a regular poster on alt.fan.dragonball for years, now.

What? I'm not in touch with the fanbase? I'm PART of the fanbase x_X;;.

Look, you're really not getting it. At prices like $18, after S&H, you're still paying something in the area of $23. At 2 DVD's a month, that's $44. And Suncoast is raising prices, just like several other online stores, and the discs are now $19 each there so after S&H, it's like actually the same as MSRP. Hell, some of Suncoast's DBZ DVD's are $23 now! That's MORE than MSRP! "Why are we complaining again?" Well, basically because $50 a month for about 3 years is a little steap for ONE frigging anime series. Plus, I live in Canada, as do several others, so it's more like $80 a month. Oh, but I know you don't give a crap about anyone but yourself, and hey you want others to get screwed over, considering that you want Yu Yu Hakusho released on VHS as edited version only. Who cares about the people who don't have DVD players. Why should THEY get the unedited version? They're inferior beings. Does it hurt you to have an unedited version on 2 different formats? To this day, I can't think of your reasoning behind that. Do you get what the complaints here are? If FUNimation would just listen to fans and put the content of 2 tapes on one disc, and bring the price up to $29.99 and release 1 DVD every 1-2 months everyone would be happy (and anyone complaining about a $5 price increase I would personally tell to suck it, because, truly, nothing pleases that kind of fan.) I'm sure you've seen the math done
before, so I'll just say that owning the entire series (DB, DBZ and DBGT) will take about 4-6 years and cost about $3000. This for an ANIME SERIES! Come on, can't you understand why there are those of us who want a break? You slam us for expecting FUNimation to be like an actual anime company and listen to its fans? (Though I lose the term loosely, considering FUNimation's only fans are dubbies and you.) Some of us, simply put, do not want to shell out $3000 for an anime series, ($5000+ for Canadians) it's natural to want a break. And that comment about being like an actual anime company moves us on.

Price, price, price. Always the tricky issue. Look, no-one's saying you have to purchase every single last episode of "DragonBall" that's ever released; I know I don't plan on it. FUNi's DVDs are generally $5 less than most anime releases, which is a good first-step, right there. Yes, it's a huge series, and yes, if you want all of it, you're going to pay a nice amount. Look a "Cardcaptor Sakura." That's a nearly-100 episode series, 4 episodes per disc, but they're $30 a piece, and there's been a four month delay between volumes two and three.

Then again, why are we arguing about release dates? It's good to have plenty offered up quickly. No-one's saying you have to buy each and every single disc on its release date. The discs are going to still be around for years to come. They're not going anywhere. A quicker release schedule simply means there's a larger selection for later on.

Of course, you've gotta be legally insane if you aim to own an entire 500 episode anime series O_O;;.

I don't care what anyone labels me with... I think that edited-only VHS release and uncut-only DVD releases should be the way of the future for anime companies. Some are already hopping on the bandwagon. Bandai has announced that many of their upcoming series will have DVD-only releases, and ADV is shifting their "ADV Fansubs" portion over into the DVD area. AnimEigo is moving into DVD-only, as well. It's not that hard to see.

The eyecatchers. They put the recaps in, so why not the eyecatchers? It's been proven they have them at DBZOA (a nice little screenshot in the Truth section), so why don't they use them? How can you forgive them for actually consciously deciding that the fans deserve to be screwed, and to actually lie about not having them? And the previews are not just previews. They are an enjoyable part of the show. I really, really enjoy the little banter between Goku, Gohan and the other cast members. It seems almost like improv. Others agree with me, including Chris Psaros, as of yet the only webmaster of a big DBZ website NOT to kiss FUNimation's ass. (On the topic of ass-kissing, the dub voice actors are certainly not deserving of the term actor, let alone seiyuu.) And Kenshin never had eyecatchers in the first place. Well then, I guess if the eyecatchers don't exist, no one can complain about them not being on the DVD huh?

Who's the dope that said that FUNimation *doesn't* own the eye-catches? Furthermore, when has *FUNimation themselves* ever said they don't own the eye-catches? This is another example of me wanting you to actually come up with some substance to support your argument, because I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish.
--------------



Interesting piece there you wrote. For some reason it reminds me of something else... can't quite think of what though.

You know, you went to a lot of length in that editorial to defend yourself and your work- you didn't just ignore his insults and complaints or simply get off the internet.

Also, I notice that nowhere in your extremely lengthy defense of yourself that you ever really agreed with anything he said about you, although certain people like yourself seem to believe that unless you act that way in response to attacks that you're not at all humble. Hmm.... wonder why? And I wonder why you seem to make certain exceptions depending on who the person is? :roll:
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)

Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"

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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by xzero » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:11 pm

GS7X7 wrote:As for the cursing in Movie 9- yeah, I do take credit for that as well, though obviously that's much more minor than the music issue. But back in the day my site was pretty popular- and I had tons of followers that I often "sic'd" on Funimation's e-mails issue complaints about stuff, the cursing issue being one of them.
I just checked Movie 9, and unless I missed it, the only "cursing" I could find was Trunks' line "Whoa, what the hell are you?" (YouTube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oDI4_CYW10) See, here's my problem with this. The cursing -like the music- was probably an effort to move toward a straight dub rather than an Americanization of the show. The movies from that point on tended to be relatively accurate (with some cursing in at least one or two of them). This is further evidenced in the Season 2 redub, particularly in the Ginyu Force episodes. Lots and lots of swearing throughout those episodes. The swearing was on par with (or perhaps a little heavier than) the level of swearing in the Japanese vesion.

While the Namek Saga tends to drag, it really is the best dub we ever got with DBZ. Unsurprisingly, it came at a time when Funimation was really trying to give a proper dub to DBZ. Now I concede that the Ultimate Uncut Editions still had music changes, but the script had been much improved by that time. From a marketing perspective, Americans were much more likely to be receptive to an accurate dub script than music changes for that version.

Look, I'm not saying that you didn't contribute in some way. I don't doubt that Funimation listened to some of your complaints, and probably reacted to them in turn. But let's assume that the anime market in America didn't go in the direction that it did. Let's assume that 4Kids' properties and style of dub changes were much better received domestically than Funimation's accurate (and in some places, improved) Yu Yu Hakusho, Blue Gender [from what I've heard], Fullmetal Alchemist, etc. I guarantee you that the scripts would still be super censored, and there may even be more music changes, not just in Dragon Ball properties, but in other anime as well (besides those handled by 4Kids). You probably did have some role in the current state of DBZ, but if the market hadn't backed your thesis, your complaints and those of the Japanese version fans would have gone unheeded.


One last point about the music, and then I'll let it rest. You said that:
One thing IS for certain- Funimation's idea to include dual-soundtrack options (both dub and original) was a pretty original idea that HAD never been done before by ANY anime company before. I certainly know who originally gave Funimation the idea- yours truly.
You're right that there hadn't been, at least to my knowledge, a dual-soundtrack option for any anime prior to the Orange Brick and Green Brick sets. I simply can't think of an anime that was being released by a legitimate and respectable dubbing company that needed such an option. Funimation really put forth effort in the last decade to take it from a 4Kids-level company to one of America's strongest forces in the legitimate, accurate anime market. The only other company that consistently rescores anime is 4Kids, and their market is really different from Funimation's these days. But as for this claim that you originally gave Funimation the idea for the dual-soundtrack DVDs, a conversation with Evan Jones does not mean that you (or your friend) are the first person to have ever recommended that to them. Whatever Evan may have said, and I don't question you on that, it just seems like it's impossible to prove that you, personally and invidually, are the one responsible for putting the idea of a dual-sountrack release in the executives' heads when the decision came to the table. Then again, I can't disprove it, so whatever.


And now that I've said all of this, isn't the key point not about who got what, but about the fact that now we have pretty much exactly what you and DBZU were calling for all of those years ago? We should just be happy that we finally got it; quibbling about who is responsible for it seems useless when the only people we can actually credit for being directly responsible are the Funmiation employees who made these good decisions.

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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by GS7X7 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:17 am

Aye, that's a good point.

Even if my actions did lead to dual-music, it's definitely not something I did solely by myself- that is arrogant to say. Feeling attacked may make one feel overly-defensive, but I shouldn't get arrogant because of that.

If I did accomplish it, I owe thanks to the anonymous person who gave me the dual-music advice in the first place. I also owe thanks to his anonymous friend (someone more famous in the dbz community, still around) for getting me in touch with his friend after the friend had left the dbz community ages ago. I also owe thanks to everyone who ever signed or supported the petition, and Evan Jones, and Funimation for following the advice. It definitely wasn't all my doing all by myself.

Even when Psaros talked about the original music coming back to the first series he didn't just thank solely himself- he also thanked every single person out there who pressured Funimation to do it. I'm generally not an arrogant guy in general- really I'm not even if I come across that way to anyone when trying to defend myself- but I guess I need to learn some more humility.


As for today, I'm pretty happy with Funimation. The new sets are pretty much the first truly "perfect" DBZ dvds I think they've ever done. I'm not sure there's really much left to complain about. I haven't watched their dubbed eps for the re-re-dub (how many times have the dubbed first 3 seasons anyway? 2 or 3?) but they sound much better than Funimation's earlier work.
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)

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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by Piccolo Daimaoh » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:45 am

Wow, you actually did have something to do with the dual-soundtrack option on the orange bricks. I just wanted to thank you personally because if it wasn't for your friend contacting Evan Jones and your petition, I wouldn't be able to listen to Shunsuke's great score on domestically available DVDs.

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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by GS7X7 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:57 am

Thank you! That means a lot.

But.... any credit you may give me. Brian Real deserves an equal amount of credit. Yeah, I wrote up the petition and got my friend involved..... but I never would have had the idea if not for Brian Real. He's the one who told me that idea would be the most likely to work for Funimation, instead of my formerly more militant stance of "you guys are f'ng morons and your dub music sucks, now admit you're wrong and give us the superior original music and I'm going to make hundreds or thousands of angry fans flame the crap out of you for it."


Brian Real asked me not to mention him anywhere years ago- probably because he had a falling out in the Dbz community ages ago and a sort of "fall from grace". (lengthy and public fight with gre- ah screw it, that's all really old internet drama, don't wan't to say anything bad about the guy) However, I think he'd make an exception to me mentioning his name for his involvement in this. Actually, I'd give Brian Real more credit than me- he originally gave me the idea, I just ran with it, so please be even more thankful to him than me.


Oh, one more thing- not many people remember but Brian Real was also the driving force behind the "uncut dvd's with dual-language version options", a petition that actually got over 10,000 signatures and I think is what originally convinced Funimation to release the Japanese version on dvd. (which, now that I think about it, probably makes sense as to why he was able to recognize and recommend dual-soundtracks to me as a good idea) Brian Real also got Simmonds hired instead of some local translator who wouldn't have had as much of an interest in DBZ as he did. Brian Real really did a hell out of lot of good but unfortunately he's mostly remembered for his old internet drama. Please give it up for him.
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)

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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:54 pm

My initial response after reading your giant post was, "This is a crazy person writing crazy things." I continued to believe that up until xzero called you out on some thing regarding the domestic anime industry, and you rescinded some of your comments. That actually speaks volumes, and is something you hadn't seem to have done when I just previously called you out on the same things. An online petition from 2002 didn't affect a business decision in 2007. I'm sorry, but it just didn't. Did you help add to the noise over the years that perhaps this product was indeed something fandom wanted? Hell yeah! But taking any kind of direct credit for it? Nooooo way, bud!

My main problem with your posts has been, as I've very clearly explained and you at least seem to vaguely comprehend, is that you refuse to accept a blanket criticism of things you've written in the past. I get that. I really do. I wouldn't want to be in the same position. Unfortunately, you appear to have created that persona for yourself. Whatever contributions to the community you may or may not have had, those particular things seem to define you, and that's what people remember your site as.

That sucks, but that's reality.

I don't really understand where you're going with an old editorial of mine. I didn't get it the first time you brought it up, and I don't understand it now. Maybe I confused you by referencing myself at all. To toss it out there in a nutshell, my point was that people today don't bother to nit-pick things I said ten years ago (but if you'd like to, go ahead, and I'll be happy to help) not because they're no longer relevant, but because I took it upon myself to continue contributing. Why pick apart things I said a decade ago when you can pick apart things I said just yesterday?

You made a choice to stop. I understand that choice... I do! Unfortunately for your ego, you left behind a lot of poorly-worded, factually-inaccurate, and rabid-fanboy rantings that overwhelmingly overshadowed the legit and collected pieces. That's what people remember, and that's what they're laughing about. That's my comparison.

If you came in from the get-go with a collected spirit and simply said (as I suggested), something along the lines of, "Shit... things were crazy back then, huh? I said some really stupid stuff. By the way, here are some things I thought were pretty good that you're overlooking." -- that's the growth I'm talking about, and that's what I'm only just now seeing show up in the last couple posts.

You don't need to rant back at me about maturity -- I've given you the opportunity to get on your platform and defend yourself, and with the way you're acting, I absolutely didn't need to let you. The problem is that you're all over the place with no consistent message or tone. Like I said, you're parodying your old persona that people are already making fun of, and nonsensical rants isn't helping your case any.

I may seem like I am, but I'm not flat-out telling you how you should act as a human being. Just be a cool guy, dude! We all got what we wanted, so let's relax. Leave your teenage drama back in the past where it belongs.
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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by GS7X7 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:28 pm

One last thing I want to note, I do plan on redoing my old movie reviews when my site's back up. (and finishing up to Movie 13) That's the main thing people look at with dbzu 2 (comparisons) and since I'm not happy with most of them I think that makes sense to do. I've been thinking about doing this for a while- anime cauldron's site difficulties is the only reason I haven't gotten to it yet. I also plan on doing a "Sources" talking about all my old sources I ever used but never cited. (since that was another issue) If I am going to keep my old site up then I guess I should at least correct the things that bug me most about it.

Btw Ex, have you ever considered Brian Real for a podcast?
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)

Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"

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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by Godo » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:29 pm

I just have to take a moment and put a comment on a quote from the Editorial:

"Of course, you've gotta be legally insane if you aim to own an entire 500 episode anime series O_O;;."

Ah, things have changed!

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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by laserkid » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:14 pm

I just want to back up GS7X7 here, as I've come to know him over the years. Back in the day we sort of had a back and forth argument "friendship" where he and I would argue about his points of long ago. The man he was then, and the man he is today are not the same. He's many things, but insane isn't one of them. I think the problem he has specifically with TVfan is the CONTINUAL refferences to attacking his old work, not that he attacked it. Hell, I attacked his old work too. :P

GS, I know you asked me to not jump in if it came off backhanded, and if it does so right now I'm very sorry, as such is not my intent. However, if I understand you correctly its not that you're being critiqued, it's that the same person keeps critiquing the same material over and over again needlessly. Hell, I understand that myself. All you have to say is "Tenkai" to me to get me cringing with how I used to behave. I never made any huge splashes in the community like you or Mike have, but I've also been a persistant commenter person in the background, so I also don't just have old stuff by me. If I might suggest, hang around, talk and let everyone know who you are these days. I know, because we I'm a lot, but this forum doesn't have that benefit. It might do everyone some good if you just talk about stuff from a current era perspective. You don't have to love the dub either, there's a lot of us here who don't. :)
-Laserkid

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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by Piccolo Daimaoh » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:14 pm

GS7X7 wrote:Thank you! That means a lot.

But.... any credit you may give me. Brian Real deserves an equal amount of credit.
Then many thanks to Brian also :P

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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by Conan the SSJ » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:29 am

GS7X7 wrote:I haven't watched their dubbed eps for the re-re-dub (how many times have the dubbed first 3 seasons anyway? 2 or 3?) but they sound much better than Funimation's earlier work.
Well, following the Ocean dub, FUNi only "redubbed" it in-house once. I think the Dub w/t JP music track had one or two ADR "corrections", like Vegeta saying "Kayoken", as opposed to the "Kaioken" he spilled in one Dub w/t Broadcast music instance to Goku. But yeah, other than those very small tweaks, they only dubbed it themselves once.
GS7X7 wrote:One last thing I want to note, I do plan on redoing my old movie reviews when my site's back up. (and finishing up to Movie 13) That's the main thing people look at with dbzu 2 (comparisons) and since I'm not happy with most of them I think that makes sense to do. I've been thinking about doing this for a while- anime cauldron's site difficulties is the only reason I haven't gotten to it yet. I also plan on doing a "Sources" talking about all my old sources I ever used but never cited. (since that was another issue) If I am going to keep my old site up then I guess I should at least correct the things that bug me most about it.
Oh, you didn't retire? I could swear remembering you once mentioning you were finished, may be mistaken.
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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by Lunaar » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:08 am

*finishes reading all of the previous pages of absurdity*

:shock:

Soooooooooo...about DBZU and DBZU2, guys... Honestly, the whole back and forth deal with GS7X7 is cool and all, but...what happened to talking and reminiscing about the good ol' ranty days? :P I visited the old sites again and couldn't help but feel joyfully nostalgic. I thoroughly enjoyed both DBZU and DBZU2, so let's leave it at that, shall we?

And yes, while Mr. Psaros may wish to remain cut from the DB community or anything related to it, it would certainly be interesting to see what he's up to now, what his interests are, and what his reflections on the start of the millenium were like with his entries and fandom.

While we're on the subject of podcast suggestions, this GS7X7 had a fairly large enrty in the minds of the DB fans of the internet - why not have him on the show? Might even give him a chance of redemption, yes? Allow his current personality and interests overshine his past, perhaps? I know I would gag at things I wrote a decade ago. ......then again, I was eight years old at the time, so that point probably has no merit. :lol:

I miss DBZU and DBZU2 considerably. Speculations, comparisons and debates are my kind of shtick, and I used to get (mentally and nerdally) off to this stuff.

I'm pretty sure the podcast featuring either one of these icons will bring many listeners and conversations through the pipelines of the Daizex community, maybe even the DB community as a whole - thus bringing more speculations, comparisons and debates to the table. This is why I love message boards... :mrgreen:

I conclude. Wow, the post ended up longer than I had anticipated. My apologies.
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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by MajinVejitaXV » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:25 am

On topic, Anime Cauldron or whatnot appears to be back up. I randomly searched for DBZ Uncensored, and there it was. Now to download it all for safe keeping. As someone that's been around for 10+ years now, it's a vital part of my past with this fandom. ;)
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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:14 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:On topic, Anime Cauldron or whatnot appears to be back up. I randomly searched for DBZ Uncensored, and there it was. Now to download it all for safe keeping. As someone that's been around for 10+ years now, it's a vital part of my past with this fandom. ;)
You can download websites? O.o
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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by Innagadadavida » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:20 pm

JulieYBM wrote:You can download websites? O.o
Ever heard of an "HTML file"?

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Castor Troy
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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by Castor Troy » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:29 pm

Downloading the entire website now, so I can keep it forever! :mrgreen:

I think I'll nab DBZU2 for shits and giggles as well.

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JulieYBM
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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:36 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:You can download websites? O.o
Ever heard of an "HTML file"?
Can't quite say I have, but if it's possible to download/save/whathaveyou a site to keep forever in case it gets removed I would love to know how such magic and trickery is done.
💙💜💖💙💜💖💙💜💖💙💜💖 She/Her 💙💜💖💙💜💖💙💜💖💙💜💖
💙💜💖💙💜💖💙💜💖💙💜💖 Don't forget to take your estrogen! 💙💜💖💙

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Castor Troy
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Re: DBZU and DBZU2 seems to be officially gone now.

Post by Castor Troy » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:38 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Innagadadavida wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:You can download websites? O.o
Ever heard of an "HTML file"?
Can't quite say I have, but if it's possible to download/save/whathaveyou a site to keep forever in case it gets removed I would love to know how such magic and trickery is done.
I'm using this program
http://www.httrack.com

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