Can someone please tell me how Yamcha was beating Olibu?

[Xyex]

And if (the H-word)

Hah, so H*rcule becomes (the H-word) now? Interesting filter shift. XD

All and all it kinda sucks that "human" characters became pretty much obsolete by the Freeza and Cell arcs but it makes sense in the context of the story.

Yeah, it'd have been great if the humans could have hung around longer. If the Zenkais hadn't existed then powers wouldn't have climbed so much during Namek and the humans wouldn't have been left so far back.

Even the most powerful characters like Goku, Vegeta, Gohan or Piccolo had to overcome huge hurdles to achieve the level of power they ended up commanding.

Yeah. Piccolo had to fuse and Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta had to get Zenkais out the wazoo to break a million. I honestly don't think even Goku would have hit a million without his Zenkais.

But the 'trials' were part of the training, not some time wasting right of passage. Being able to do them faster makes them pointless.

The biggest part, I'd expect. Everything after Bubbles (and Greggory in the anime) was likely Kaioken/Spirit Bomb training. Plus, the way I figure it, you get your best gains when you're adjusting to a gravity level. Once you're used to it you don't get as much benefit from it. A higher power would let you adjust more quickly so you'd get less benefits from the gravity.

[Neon Z]

Until Goku took off the weights, sure. Once the weights came off Goku had complete control of the fight. And if you go by the Daizenshuu King Piccolo's power was 260. Tenshinhan's was 250 at the start of DBZ.

Weighted Goku was stated to be as fast as the Goku that defeated King Piccolo, and stronger than him in every other category (Tenshinhan thought that was his weakness, his speed hadn't changed). Tenshinhan was matching or beating him, so 23rd Budokai Tenshinhan has to be stronger than super holy water Goku and King Piccolo.

Also, even after Goku removed the weights, Tenshinhan still was able to hit him and do some damage.

He used the super Kikoho against them, which is an entirely different beast that the normal Kikoho. IMO his statement about making use of King Kai's teachings 'in his own way' creates a very real probability that the Super Kikoho makes use of the Kaioken for extra power. There may even be elements of the Spirit Bomb incorported into it, though the latter is a little less like. Then let's add in the factor that while Tenshinhan's attack stalled Semi-Perfect Cell it did zero damage.

I really disagree with this idea. Obviously, the Shin Kikoho is a strong technique, but it can't be THAT good. The Shin Kikoho received just as much attention as the Shin Wolf Fang Fist that Yamcha used in the 22nd Budokai. Just a random name drop, without any acknowledgment of a difference from anyone else.

It could have likely killed 1st form Freeza and did serious damage to 2nd form Freeza but I doubt we'd see much in the way of injury to anyone/thing stronger than that. It's certainly not high enogh to do damage to the Androids, despite pushing Cell around, or he'd have given it a go against one of them.

It did no real lasting damage, but getting hit by it clearly it caused pain on Cell, something that #17 or #18's attacks couldn't do by that point. So, I don't see how you figure out it'd do nothing to the androids.

Besides, he can't feel their ki, so he wouldn't know if it'd work, and the one time he tried to face the androids previously he was grabbed right in the beginning by #17, so there wasn't much he could do.

Tenshinhan also did dodge one of Gero's eye beams (when he was standing alongside Goku in the city).

[Xyex]

Weighted Goku was stated to be as fast as the Goku that defeated King Piccolo, and stronger than him in every other category (Tenshinhan thought that was his weakness, his speed hadn't changed). Tenshinhan was matching or beating him, so 23rd Budokai Tenshinhan has to be stronger than super holy water Goku and King Piccolo.

I seem to remember him saying that he "hadn't changed" and the inference I got was that he was talking about their fight at the 22nd Budokai which was the only time he really got a feel for how strong Goku was around then. He never fought the Goku that defeated King Piccolo so he wouldn't really know how fast or strong he was.

Also, IIRC, Tien could barely even lift up the weights Goku had been wearing after he removed them.

I really disagree with this idea. Obviously, the Shin Kikoho is a strong technique, but it can't be THAT good. The Shin Kikoho received just as much attention as the Shin Wolf Fang Fist that Yamcha used in the 22nd Budokai. Just a random name drop, without any acknowledgment of a difference from anyone else.

When do we ever see any kind of real explanation of attacks, though? Especially modified ones? Hell, GT never even bothered to explain the whole "10x Kamehameha" IIRC. Just because they don't go into a long winded Naruto-style explanation of the move doesn't mean it hasn't changed. There'd be no need for a name change if there were no improvement.

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but getting hit by it clearly it caused pain on Cell, 

He didn't seem to be in pain to me, shocked more than anything.

Besides, he can't feel their ki, so he wouldn't know if it'd work,

He can feel Vegeta's, he can compare Vegeta's energy to how badly Vegeta's getting his ass kicked and make an educated guess.

and the one time he tried to face the androids previously he was grabbed right in the beginning by #17,

Because he launched in to attack instead of using the Shin Kikoho or he would have had no trouble getting one off.

Tenshinhan also did dodge one of Gero's eye beams (when he was standing alongside Goku in the city).

I see this stated all the time but it's absolutely worthless for anything. We know that Tien is much weaker than Goku and likely not a whole lot stronger than Yamcha. Goku in base couldn't even budge 20 and Yamcha didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. Thus Tien's no where near 20 either and his dodge means jack shit.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I see this stated all the time but it's absolutely worthless for anything. We know that Tenshinhan is much weaker than Goku and likely not a whole lot stronger than Yamcha. Goku in base couldn't even budge 20 and Yamcha didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. Thus Tenshinhan's no where near 20 either and his dodge means jack shit.

Yeah, I hate it when people always use this situation to justify their own estimation of Tenshinhan's battle power. Tenshinhan dodged an eye beam, big fucking deal. It wasn't as if 20 was actually aiming for him, nor would he be firing it at his full power if he's just trying to destroy a city.

[Xyex]

Yeah, I hate it when people always use this situation to justify their own estimation of Tenshinhan's battle power. Tenshinhan dodged an eye beam, big fucking deal. It wasn't as if 20 was actually aiming for him, nor would he be firing it at his full power if he's just trying to destroy a city.

Yeah. It'd be a different matter if 20 had lunged right at him or grabbed him like he'd done to Yamcha and Tien had dodged/escaped/whatever. But simply dodging an energy blast that wasn't even meant for him in the first place? No, sorry, not going to cut it.

[fktizle]

Yamcha says it himself that he can't keep up with those guys anymore. As strong as Yamcha and the other humans are, they have limits to their power. Comparable to other humans, their amazing even in Dragonball.

It's filler, no way Yamcha would be able to touch Olibu in any real fight. If anything Yamcha was just imagining this while taking a nap in the kais planet . Yamcha can't even really fight Android 18.

Tien, on the other hand, can be seen as a pretty strong human. He does spend most of his time training while Ymacha lays around.