Names & Phrases: Translate or Not?

[Xyex]

Just like "Buu" irks me, it should be "Majin Boo",

There's nothing wrong with Buu. In fact, Buu is a bit more accurate, really. "Boo" is a word. "Buu" is a pun.

[The Time Traveller]

Especially when Alucard is supposed to be Dracula backwards. What, Japanese Dracula is Dracura? Damn weaboos... ruining my fandom! D:

Alucard isn't eve spelt Arucard in Japanese, there's not even an R there! The weeaboos should be calling him Aakaado!

[Thanos6]

I find it hilarious that this whole mess got started from me being amazed at Trunks and Goten's sword school.

[DemonRin]

Just like "Buu" irks me, it should be "Majin Boo",

There's nothing wrong with Buu. In fact, Buu is a bit more accurate, really. "Boo" is a word. "Buu" is a pun.

Every single Japanese source Spells it "Boo", including Jump Ultimate Stars.

It's from Cinderella. Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo.

Bibbidi Created him, Bobbidi revived him, and his name is Boo.

[DNA]

Especially when Alucard is supposed to be Dracula backwards. What, Japanese Dracula is Dracura? Damn weaboos... ruining my fandom! D:

Alucard isn't eve spelt Arucard in Japanese, there's not even an R there! The weeaboos should be calling him Aakaado!

Just call him Aaaaaaa and be done with it! More Japanese! More extreme!

[VegettoEX]

Just like "Buu" irks me, it should be "Majin Boo",

There's nothing wrong with Buu. In fact, Buu is a bit more accurate, really. "Boo" is a word. "Buu" is a pun.

Every single Japanese source Spells it "Boo", including Jump Ultimate Stars.

It's from Cinderella. Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo.

Bibbidi Created him, Bobbidi revived him, and his name is Boo.

This was brought up in the chat yesterday (I'm not sure if you were there), and my response was:

Only Viz spells the name as "Bippity" and "Boppity" (or something along those lines, right?). If I spell the names as "Bibidi" and "Babidi", what's wrong with "Buu"...? They're all interpretations of words from the song, rather than the literal words themselves from the lyrics of the song. Nothing's lost at all. That's a name pun sequence that's been known since the beginning of time, and yet no-one ever spelled the names like that until Viz came along. "Boo" is just as prevalent as "Buu" and nothing is lost what-so-ever with either name spelling.

Even in your attempt to explain the pun and why it should be "Boo", you have zero consistency among your own spellings and justifications.

Other series and examples are fine when they are relevant, but let's really try to keep it strictly DragonBall, here. It's a series that puts itself in a far different position than most other shows, what with all the names being puns on things that aren't even necessarily all from the same language. You've got words from English and Italian and Spanish being tossed into the mix all for name puns -- you can't equate some other show and their one-time usage of "Shinigami" on the same level.

I truly and honestly don't see what the big problem is with things like "Mirai Trunks" or "Chibi Trunks". They're long-lasting fan terms that have existed far before most of you complaining about it have been around. They're perfectly accurate words, used with impeccable consistency, and the general retort of "Get that damn Japanese outta my anime!" just seems ridiculous. If they were wrong words, that'd be one thing... but they're not. You just don't like mixing your languages. Fine. Say something else when you refer to them. You can translate however you want.

Which I guess is what the whole point of the thread is, so that's fine, and I welcome those opinions. I just wish you had a little more backing and well-thought-out reasonings for them.

[DemonRin]

Did you ignore this part of my post?...

It also irks me to see "Chibi-Trunks" "Mirai Trunks" too. It's "Little Trunks" and "Future Trunks". Just like "Buu" irks me, it should be "Majin Boo", but this stuff is so deeply ingrained in the DB Fandom, that trying to actually fight it and keep people from doing it is futile, and just comes off to others as annoying.

I'm on the side that's NOT fighting to change anyone's opinions...

Its just my opinion that names, attacks, and Honorifics are fine if the show is Asian-themed, but not much else is.

I think Kuririn Should Fire a Kienzan, and Son Goku should use the Genki Dama he learned from Kaio-Sama.
Your retort that my mentality is "Get that damn Japanese outta my anime!" is rather inaccurate and ludicrous.

Things like "Mirai" Trunks irk me because it's not a name, its not an official title, its a descriptive word that is being used to describe him. People don't say "Chibi Gohan" vs. "Otona Gohan" (Adult Gohan) or "Ooki/Dai Gohan" (Big Gohan), so why "Mirai Trunks"?

But I draw your attention back to the sentence I quoted. I said flat out that this stuff is so deeply ingrained in the fandom that fighting it is pointless and Stupid, so I don't. I just brought it up in a thread that was specifically bringing the subject up.
My common mentality is that Japanese phrases belong in series' that are SET in Japan and in Asia in General (or an Asian-themed setting). But for things like Hellsing and the first two parts of Jojo, Japanese words in the series' make absolutely no sense when they're SUPPOSED to be set entirely in Europe. That was all I was saying.

[russ869]

I usually don't use any terms in normal discussion that arn't actually spoken by any of the characters in the series. That includes terms that are technically official due their presence in official reference materials. But that doesn't actually fall into the discussion of translate or not.

I just saying that as far as "Mirai Trunks" or "Future Trunks" I don't use either, because no one ever calls him that in Dragonball. There's Trunks as a kid (and Trunks as a teenager if you're talking about GT), and there's the Trunks from the future. You don't really need anything else to describe him. People get too hung up on terminology. ("Oh, I think Trunks went USSJ here." "Did Vegeta get a Zenkai then?") I'd rather simply use my English vocabulary to explain things and phenomena that aren't specifically named in terms everyone can understand as they appear to the reader.

Not in defense of the dub or anything, but Kami doesn't exactly do very many godly things. He really just- kind of... watches. He even offered the position to Goku, who is the last guy I'd want to be God. And the whole "God of Earth" thing is an original concept by Toriyama, correct? It's not quite the same as the omittance of references to "heaven," "hell," or "ki." At least in my opinion.

Isn't that kind of part of the joke? That that's all God really does? You know it's classic part of a story where the main character meets God, but it immensely disappointed.

Somehow I think someone will distort my words to make them look bad and I'm gonna end up banned...

Wouldn't surprise me. People are a little touchy today...

I truly and honestly don't see what the big problem is with things like "Mirai Trunks" or "Chibi Trunks". They're long-lasting fan terms that have existed far before most of you complaining about it have been around. They're perfectly accurate words, used with impeccable consistency, and the general retort of "Get that damn Japanese outta my anime!" just seems ridiculous. If they were wrong words, that'd be one thing... but they're not.

That certainly makes sense. Seeing as how there are so many fandoms where fans frequently use wrong words that don't accurately describe the thing they're referring to, we should probably be satisfied with the fact that that's not the biggest problem we're having here.

[DemonRin]

Yeah, it's not a big deal or anything, and the more rational of we who dislike it realize that whether you like it or not, it aint going anywhere and fighting it is futile and annoying to everyone else.

So, really, just as there shouldn't be a problem with people using the terms, why is there a problem that some of us dislike them as long as we keep that dislike to ourselves?

Bringing your opinion into a thread that asks "Names and Phrases: Translate or Not" shouldn't be a bad thing.

[VegettoEX]

Oh, here we go! I don't necessarily mean this as an, "Ah-HAH! GOTCHA!" example (maybe a little bit), but I'm genuinely curious:

--> Majin <--

Why is this purely-Japanese word acceptable when others are not? Two-fold, actually: (1) It's Japanese, so why does everyone feel free to keep it and speak it as-is, and (2) why that and not "Saiya-jin"...? Both have the same translatable/adaptable "-jin" suffix. Is it because "Saiya" is not an actual "word", so you want to adapt the entire name?

My example extends further to "Majin Vegeta". As far as we've been able to tell, up until the most recent round of video games, not a single Japanese piece of merchandise ever referred to him straight-up as "Majin Vegeta". It was always something referring to a "Demon Prince", but never "Majin". Why does fandom accept "Majin Vegeta", then, if it's never actually said? It's not a formal name. It's a description of him, and using a word that's only used as a description and never a formal name.

Except maybe with "Majin Buu". FUNimation adopted it, and so did their entire audience. They consistently spout out a Japanese phrase like it's nothing. Why is that? Why don't you call him "Demon/Magical Buu" instead? You go over to Viz, and they were in that period of "LET'S CRAZY ADAPT EVERYTHING!" and wound up with "Djinn Buu", but few people roll with that. Maybe they will in another ten years; I dunno.

I'm genuinely interested: what makes "Majin" as a word different from anything else, especially in reference to characters that are never labeled with that term in the show? Trunks is from the future, so "Mirai Trunks". Vegeta's under Babidi's spell, so "Majin Vegeta". What's the difference? That you heard "Majin" spoken aloud in FUNimation's dub, so it's OK?

[DemonRin]

Oh, here we go! I don't necessarily mean this as an, "Ah-HAH! GOTCHA!" example (maybe a little bit), but I'm genuinely curious:

--> Majin <--

Why is this purely-Japanese word acceptable when others are not? Two-fold, actually: (1) It's Japanese, so why does everyone feel free to keep it and speak it as-is, and (2) why that and not "Saiya-jin"...? Both have the same translatable/adaptable "-jin" suffix. Is it because "Saiya" is not an actual "word", so you want to adapt the entire name?

My example extends further to "Majin Vegeta". As far as we've been able to tell, up until the most recent round of video games, not a single Japanese piece of merchandise ever referred to him straight-up as "Majin Vegeta". It was always something referring to a "Demon Prince", but never "Majin". Why does fandom accept "Majin Vegeta", then, if it's never actually said? It's not a formal name. It's a description of him, and using a word that's only used as a description and never a formal name.

Except maybe with "Majin Buu". FUNimation adopted it, and so did their entire audience. They consistently spout out a Japanese phrase like it's nothing. Why is that? Why don't you call him "Demon/Magical Buu" instead? You go over to Viz, and they were in that period of "LET'S CRAZY ADAPT EVERYTHING!" and wound up with "Djinn Buu", but few people roll with that. Maybe they will in another ten years; I dunno.

I'm genuinely interested: what makes "Majin" as a word different from anything else, especially in reference to characters that are never labeled with that term in the show? Trunks is from the future, so "Mirai Trunks". Vegeta's under Babidi's spell, so "Majin Vegeta". What's the difference? That you heard "Majin" spoken aloud in FUNimation's dub, so it's OK?

Because "Majin" is used for Boo like a title or a Name. Just like how the Kaio are taken as the names of those characters too. Even though it means "King of Worlds", it's taken as their official titles. So it sticks.
Another thing, the literal Translation of is "Demon Person/Being". If you translate it that way, or as "Djinn" then why are there "M"s written All over everything?! Suddenly that M makes no sense.

Vegeta got the title purely because of the M on his head.
Boo's title is left because its an official title given to him, just like we treat Kaio, just like we treat Daimao. (In fact, both of these include the Kanji "Ma" now that I think of it)
If Boo's title is "Majin", and he has that "M" on his belt... And Vegeta gets the very same "M" on his head... Viola! He becomes Majin Vegeta. At least that makes sense because it takes an already established title in the series and just applies it to a different character. It's just relevant because of the M.

I pretty much think Steve Simmons' subs nailed it for what should and should not be translated. You never see Trunks say "I need to go back to the Mirai!" and in Dragon Ball GT, Son doesn't say "Those Black Star Dragon Balls turned me Chibi!" in those subs. Same deal.

It's not a major gripe of mine, its really rather minor. Kinda like when I see someone spell out his name as "Mirai no Torankusu" just to be more "Japanese-ey" for the sake of it. But like I said, its not worth decrying someone as a fan or calling them out on, it's not worth mentioning at all except for in a thread that asks that specific question.

[Mountain]

This whole "trying to be so Japanese" and/or "Japanese for the sake of Japanese" mentality is killing me. It's a Japanese show! Jesus... As far as I'm concerned, they're 魔人ブウ and ベジータ. Don't try to make rules where rules have already been established. Also, there's no reason for everyone to come to an agreement on one set of translated/untranslated names, attacks, places, etc. It's just not worth it. We're all fans of Dragon Ball, here. Let's just refer to the things, people, and places as we see fit. No one will win this argument, so it's rather pointless if you ask me.

[VegettoEX]

This whole "trying to be so Japanese" and/or "Japanese for the sake of Japanese" mentality is killing me. It's a Japanese show! Jesus... As far as I'm concerned, they're 魔人ブウ and ベジータ. Don't try to make rules where rules have already been established. Also, there's no reason for everyone to come to an agreement on one set of translated/untranslated names, attacks, places, etc. It's just not worth it. We're all fans of Dragon Ball, here. Let's just refer to the things, people, and places as we see fit. No one will win this argument, so it's rather pointless if you ask me.

Why does it have to be an argument, never mind one to be "won"? I've asked for an explanation on people's own, personal rules for translating or not, what consistency they follow, why, etc., all while providing some of my own examples.

I pretty much think Steve Simmons' subs nailed it for what should and should not be translated. You never see Trunks say "I need to go back to the Mirai!" and in Dragon Ball GT, Son doesn't say "Those Black Star Dragon Balls turned me Chibi!" in those subs. Same deal.

While those are totally acceptable examples, no-one's ever saying they'd translate a SENTENCE like that. It's more along the lines of, "Oh hey, remember when Chibi Trunks peed on Goten?"

[Mountain]

Why does it have to be an argument, never mind one to be "won"? I've asked for an explanation on people's own, personal rules for translating or not, what consistency they follow, why, etc., all while providing some of my own examples.

It doesn't have to be an argument, but that's what it sure sounded like to me. An argument doesn't have to be a bad thing, I just think it's pointless. In fact, here's a definition of an argument:

"a discussion involving differing points of view; debate: They were deeply involved in an argument about inflation." - taken from dictionary.com

If, by that definition, this isn't an argument, then what is? Anywho, to get back on topic... I have referred to the character as 'Kuririn'. However, Toriyama has it romanized as 'Kulilin' in the artwork. Since people always carry the conversation of what's canon or not, then wouldn't 'Kulilin' be considered canon? I mean, it did come from the man, himself.

And, by the way VegettoEX... I mostly agreed with the things that you had to say.

[Rocketman]

I'm genuinely interested: what makes "Majin" as a word different from anything else, especially in reference to characters that are never labeled with that term in the show? Trunks is from the future, so "Mirai Trunks". Vegeta's under Babidi's spell, so "Majin Vegeta". What's the difference? That you heard "Majin" spoken aloud in FUNimation's dub, so it's OK?

The difference for me is length, basically. 'Majin Vegeta' is convenient shorthand for 'Vegeta under Babidi's spell'/'Prince of Destruction Vegeta'/"Evil Vegeta Mark II'/whatever's been on the JPN merchandise.

'Mirai' has no excuse for existing in English. It's not a name, since those never get translated (nobody calls me "He Who Is Crowned", sadly, despite that being what my name means in its original language). It's not a honorific that can be argued to have no exact translation. It's not a title (or attack name) that either translates awkwardly (ie, Lord of lords of lord of lords of worlds or Lord of World's Technique) or have different connotations in English (ie, Lord God).

It means "Future". That's it. It's as bad as that stupid Death Note fanslation that didn't translate 'plan'.

[DemonRin]

Actually... when you're saying it out in conversation, "Mi-ra-i" has one more syllable than "Fu-ture"... Technically, Future is the easier one to say XD

[Kaboom]

Uh... doesn't "Mirai" actually mean "alternate," or something along those lines?

[JulieYBM]

Uh... doesn't "Mirai" actually mean "alternate," or something along those lines?

It means 'future'. 'Mirai no Torankusu' means 'Trunks of the Future', or 'Future Trunks'.

[Anonymous Friend]

First off, why are people so against discussing things on the internet? Even something trivial and overall meaningless. Why does someone have to come in a call people stupid for discussing it? In the end, we may not be able to change someone else's options or thoughts on the matter, but as long as the ideas are presented well, we can atleast appreciate someone else's perspective on the matter and at least say "Hmm, I can see why you would that way."

Personally, I beleive that when your translating and interpreting something you should transfer everything over except for the proper names of living things, and that's only if it has no bearing on the plot or story (like someone erlier stated, we don't go around calling each other by what our names mean. But if someone has a meaningful name or a pun comes along often enough something should be done).

The translator should do everything he can to make sure that the non-native viewer/listener/reader gets the same experience as the native one.

Case in point, I'm a huge Street Fighter fan (which is probably the only reason I even bothered with Dragonball Z in the first place). I would always browse the web looking for translations for the move names. The fact that most of the character's attacks when in asian languages didn't matter until you got to Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter and all super attacks were spoken by the announcer if you finished the fight with it. Now I finally know how to pronounce Shinku Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku which is basically Super Tornado Whirlwind Kick or something like that. Even though I can see Ryu spinning around like a whirl winding tornado kicking everything, I get so much more understanding of the intent of the attack and it's all for the better. Something like Hadou-ken, which I've seen translated as Wave Motion Fist/Punch and Energy Surge Fist/Punch, and Messatsu Gou Hadou-ken, which I've seen as Wave Motion Fist of Murderous Intent or something, add the Kamehameha, whatever Domon Kashu and Master Asia use (I can say it perfectly but not spell it) and dozens of other characters with similar attacks but different names. The attacks all share the same methos of execution but have different names. If you don't speak the language, it's all gibberish. And if's it's going to be gibberish, then the character might as well grunt like Gouki while preforming it.

"Ha" means blast or wave right? And "kame" means turtle? "Hame" is the gibberish part, or does it mean something? Why not translate it as Turtle-Hurtle/Turtle-Hurt'em Blast/Wave.

When it comes to things like honorifics that don't have a precise translation, we can look at the context and use an appropriate word. Don't most people see "-sama"? I quite fine with King Kia being the "Lord King of All Worlds", Grand Kai being "Lord Grand-King/High-King of All Worlds", Supreme Kai as "Lord Supreme High-King" and the one that got absorbed by Buu as "Lord High Supreme-King yadda-yadda". Us westeners are familiar with people having very long titles and sometimes only being referred to by these titles from monarchies and royalty.

It all comes down to this stuff sounding gibberish if you don't know what it means. Yeah, you could look it up or have a translator's note, but until you find out, it's still gibberish. When I watch the Bleach subs, whenever someone calls out their sword, one particular subber gives the name of the sword and in parathesis gives the translation. They do the same when attacks are called out or Bankai are called. Heck the only time I bothered to learn the names of the swords is during this current filler arc because they get used so much (this story arc also complete bypassed something that I wish would have been at least acknowledged but this particular character didn't show up until after this point had long since been relevent to what was going on).

In the end, we may not change people's personal opinions of how everything should be, but I'm open to continuing this discussion and if possible getting feedback from those in the translating and interpreting professions.

[KinoFourpaws]

Uh... doesn't "Mirai" actually mean "alternate," or something along those lines?

Nice job. >.>