Super Buu vs Kid Buu

[Savage68]

Oh wow. I can't believe how many people are claiming that this argument could go either way.

There are way too many factors to go into this to bother with, but the main problem with thinking Kid is stronger than Super is that it would mean SSj 3 Goku is stronger than Mystic Gohan and the fusions, and that's just terrible to believe.

SSj Gotenks(pre-Rosat) was heavily implied to be stronger than Fat Buu, just like SSj 3 Goku was. Post-Rosat, SSj Gotenks' power was incredibly higher than that, and Super Buu used him as a goddamn ragdoll. By that point, SSj 1 Gotenks already outstrips SSj 3 Goku.

Then, we have SSj 3 Gotenks, who is more or less only even with Super Buu. So, if SSj 3 Goku is equal to Kid Buu, and Kid's stronger than Super...Goku must've really been holding back an absurd amount of power before.

That's not even getting into the whole deal with how much stronger Mystic Gohan is SSj 3 Goku, which is by a large amount, since he's even stronger than SSj 3 Gotenks.

[goku the krump dancer]

I'll probably no longer take part in this topic, because like we already have, we wil just keep throwing the same shit at each other that we've heared numerous times over... Unless there is something new that is discovered this question would be more or less de ja vue...

[Senzu_Bean]

Oh wow. I can't believe how many people are claiming that this argument could go either way.

Because it can! Everything you just posted is nothing more than your view regarding the events of that part in the story.

I can pretty much make an irrefutable argument that indicates Chibi Buu is stronger than Shin Buu. But hey, I can too make an irrefutable argument that proves Shin Buu is stronger than Chibi Buu.

It really can go either way.

I'll probably no longer take part in this topic, because like we already have, we wil just keep throwing the same shit at each other that we've heared numerous times over... Unless there is something new that is discovered this question would be more or less de ja vue...

Couldn't have said it better.

[Dayspring]

I say Super Boo is stronger because of the way he was formed and the way Kid Boo returned. The only two times there's a thickness to Boo's steam is when Skinny Boo is formed and when Skinny Boo merges with it after absorbing Fat Boo to become Super Boo. So Super Boo would a combination of Fat Boo, Skinny Boo and more Boo Steam.

Since the removal of Fat Boo from that equation resulted in Buff Boo, it's safe to assume that another way of getting Buff Boo would be for Skinny Boo to merge with Boo steam. However, because the (Southern?) Kaioshin was in Fat Boo, he couldn't maintain that form and immediately transformed into Kid Boo. Thus, Super Boo would be as powerful as Kid Boo absorbing the Kaioshin and Fat Boo, which gives us the answer that Super Boo is stronger.

This theory is further supported by the fact that Goku thinks that in SSJ3 he can defeat Kid Boo, whereas he earlier stated that he couldn't defeat Fat Boo if he wanted. So if Super Boo is stronger than Fat Boo and Fat Boo stronger than Kid Boo, then we still get Super Boo being stronger than Kid Boo.

[Savage68]

Everything you just posted is nothing more than your view regarding the events of that part in the story.

Uh...no, it isn't. It's what the story holds as the truth.

I can pretty much make an irrefutable argument that indicates Chibi Buu is stronger than Shin Buu.

[fktizle]

I'm not a manga whiz, but I will say that in the anime, its pretty much clear that Chibi Buu is stronger than Super Buu. When Goku goes to confront Super Buu after he gets restored life on Earth, Buu loses the Gotenks fusion and Goku clearly says something to the effect off " you don't think you could beat me like that".

Then again, Goku tells Vegeta that Buu is way to strong to beat and that they need to fuse, but I've always thought that was Goku trying to see how strong the fusion would be. This could be the case cause Goku pretty much lies to Vegeta and makes Vegeta think he's at full power when he fights him when he really isn't and still had SSJ3. Goku is a junkie for experiencing new things.

Goku said that he would be able to kill Chibi Buu if he was at Full Power. And if you see the fight with Goku vs. Chibi Buu, Chibi doesn't even show signs of ever being worried or tired. He's kind of just having a good time. We really never got to see the limit of Kid Buu's power since he was never really nervous or trying hard until the Spirit Bomb.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Super Boo is obviously stronger than Kid Boo. Anyone who actually paid attention to the manga would be able to work that out.

[Godo]

When Goku goes to confront Super Buu after he gets restored life on Earth, Buu loses the Gotenks fusion and Goku clearly says something to the effect off " you don't think you could beat me like that".

In the manga, he says: "Now even Gohan can defeat you!"

Then again, Goku tells Vegeta that Buu is way to strong to beat and that they need to fuse, but I've always thought that was Goku trying to see how strong the fusion would be.

It's because of that Buu had absorbed Gohan, who was stronger as Super Buu. It was like having two Super Buus in one body. Not even Gotenks could beat him.

Goku said that he would be able to kill Chibi Buu if he was at Full Power. And if you see the fight with Goku vs. Chibi Buu, Chibi doesn't even show signs of ever being worried or tired. He's kind of just having a good time. We really never got to see the limit of Kid Buu's power since he was never really nervous or trying hard until the Spirit Bomb.

Chibi Buu wasn't afraid of anyone really, just as Super Buu wasn't. It was more their personality.

[Senzu_Bean]

This theory is further supported by the fact that Goku thinks that in SSJ3 he can defeat Kid Boo, whereas he earlier stated that he couldn't defeat Fat Boo if he wanted. So if Super Boo is stronger than Fat Boo and Fat Boo stronger than Kid Boo, then we still get Super Boo being stronger than Kid Boo.

Nope. Goku, before fight Chibi Buu, stated he could have defeated the original Majin Buu (Fat Buu) if he wanted.

He just didn't because he wanted the future generation defeating him.

Everything you just posted is nothing more than your view regarding the events of that part in the story.

Uh...no, it isn't. It's what the story holds as the truth.

Really?! That can explain a few things actually.

[smiley]

Kid Buu is stronger in the anime time-line, no questions about it.

Super Buu is in the manga.

[Dayspring]

This theory is further supported by the fact that Goku thinks that in SSJ3 he can defeat Kid Boo, whereas he earlier stated that he couldn't defeat Fat Boo if he wanted. So if Super Boo is stronger than Fat Boo and Fat Boo stronger than Kid Boo, then we still get Super Boo being stronger than Kid Boo.

Nope. Goku, before fight Chibi Buu, stated he could have defeated the original Majin Buu (Fat Buu) if he wanted.

He just didn't because he wanted the future generation defeating him.

Went back and double-checked. I wonder if he was being arrogant or if Toriyama made a mistake there; he tells Vegeta what you mentioned, yet he told Piccolo before returning to the afterlife that he couldn't.

Oh well. I still think the fact that Super - Fat = Buff tells us that Super is strong than Kid.

[rereboy]

This theory is further supported by the fact that Goku thinks that in SSJ3 he can defeat Kid Boo, whereas he earlier stated that he couldn't defeat Fat Boo if he wanted. So if Super Boo is stronger than Fat Boo and Fat Boo stronger than Kid Boo, then we still get Super Boo being stronger than Kid Boo.

Nope. Goku, before fight Chibi Buu, stated he could have defeated the original Majin Buu (Fat Buu) if he wanted.

He just didn't because he wanted the future generation defeating him.

Went back and double-checked. I wonder if he was being arrogant or if Toriyama made a mistake there; he tells Vegeta what you mentioned, yet he told Piccolo before returning to the afterlife that he couldn't.

Oh well. I still think the fact that Super - Fat = Buff tells us that Super is strong than Kid.

I consider that Fat Evil Buu is about as strong or in the same realm of power as Grey Buu and Kid Buu.

Thats why Goku said he could perhaps take Fat evil Buu, and thats why he thought he could mybe win against Kid Buu.

But when it came to Super Buu he just said he and Vegeta would be killed.

There is a lot more stuff that also points in this direction, but this alone, I think, its a very powerful argument to think that Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu and Fat Evil Buu.

[Dayspring]

I consider that Fat Evil Buu is about as strong or in the same realm of power as Grey Buu and Kid Buu.

Thats why Goku said he could perhaps take Fat evil Buu, and thats why he thought he could mybe win against Kid Buu.

But when it came to Super Buu he just said he and Vegeta would be killed.

There is a lot more stuff that also points in this direction, but this alone, I think, its a very powerful argument to think that Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu and Fat Evil Buu.

While I don't see Fat-Evil Boo as in the same league as Skinny and Kid, I definitely see your point. If Goku was a maybe against Fat-Evil, someone with only 'most' of Fat-Evil's strength (ie: less) would make him feel more confident.

[Rocketman]

Guys, guys, it's very simple.

Vegetto > everybody else put together.

[Metalwario64]

Guys, guys, it's very simple.

Vegetto > everybody else put together.

Hey, you forgot your [/thread] tag...

[Savage68]

Guys, guys, it's very simple.

Vegetto > everybody else put together.

Exactly. Vegetto > two Vegettos.

If we're talking anime lines, Kid Buu is the strongest, even though the story in the anime itself still doesn't depict that as plausible. But since anime is...well, you know, it doesn't count for much.

[Senzu_Bean]

This is how I see it:

Shin Buu [Gohan absorbed]
Shin Buu [Gotenks absorbed]
Chibi Buu
Chibi Buu [power-weighted]
Shin Buu [Piccolo absorbed]
Shin Buu
Original Buu
Wrath Buu
Majin Buu

[Dayspring]

Forgot that Buff Boo was stronger than Super, so here's how I'm starting to see things:

Range 1:
Super Boo (Gohan)
Super Boo (Gotenks)

Range 2:
Buff Boo
Super Boo (Piccolo)
Super Boo
Fat Boo (evil)
Kid Boo

Range 3:
Skinny Boo
Fat Boo (good)

My thought process being that Goku didn't seem entirely sure he could defeat Fat Boo (evil) (one point he says no, another time yes) but certain he could defeat Kid Boo. Meanwhile, Super Boo is nothing but Buff Boo with his power suppressed by Fat Boo (good), so since I feel Piccolo is weaker than Fat Boo (good), I don't see Piccolo's strength reclosing the gap to a strength-level equal to Buff Boo. Meanwhile, the Kaioshin that Kid Boo absorbed was substancially weaker than SSJ Gohan from the budokai, so I don't see Buff Boo as all the more powerful than Fat Boo (evil). As a result, I see Kid Boo, Fat Boo (evil), Super Boo, Super Boo (Piccolo) and Buff Boo as all in the same league, with strengths differences being along the same lines as #18 and #17's (ie: same league, but clearly different strengths).

Meanwhile, Skinny Boo and Fat Boo (good) are derived of Fat Boo (evil)'s strength, so I feel Skinny and Fat Boo are in the same league, whereas the fact that Kid Boo was able to make Fat Boo's ki drop tells us that league isn't the same as Kid's.

And I think the story is self-explanatory regarding why Super Boo (Gotenks and Gohan) are in a league of their own.

[Xyex]

In my opinion Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu but not by much. Here's how I break down the Buu's in terms of power:

Mr. Buu ~ South Kaioshin + Dai Kaioshin(/4) + A little "essence of Buu". (120)
Evil Buu ~ About 2/3rds of Fat Buu's power. (200)
Fat Buu ~ Kid Buu - Dai Kaioshin. (300)
Kid Buu ~ "Standard" level. (480)
Super Buu ~ Kid Buu + South Kaioshin - Dai Kaioshin. (520)
Super Buu1.5 ~ Kid Buu + South Kaioshin - Dai Kaioshin + SSJ Goten + SSJ Trunks + Piccolo. (627)
Buff Buu ~ Kid Buu + South Kaioshin. (740)
Super Buu2 ~ Kid Buu + South Kaioshin - Dai Kaioshin + SSJ3 Gotenks + Piccolo. (1,001)
Super Buu3 ~ Kid Buu + South Kaioshin - Dai Kaioshin + SSJ Goten + SSJ Trunks + Piccolo + Ultimate Gohan (1,327)

[Terra-jin]

@Xyex: Mr. Buu's power, is that 1/3 Fat Buu's power + the Kaioshins? If so, why isn't the sum of Mr. & Evil Buus the same as Fat Buu (120 + 200 =/= 300)?
And Fat Buu.. shouldn't that be Kid Buu - South Kaioshin - Dai Kaioshin?

Here's my take on it.
First, I assume that Kaioshin energy and Buu's energy cancel eachother out (it is subtracted from eachother).
Secondly, there's an exception to this when Evil Buu absorbs Mr. Buu - because Super Buu has an indirect access to the Kaioshin, the power is added to his own instead of subtracted from it. When Fat Buu had the Kaioshin directly absorbed, the two different energy types were incompatible; Super Buu's indirect link to it resulted in the exception. So here goes:

Original Kid Buu: 8 (Buu's standard level)
Buff Buu: 8 - 1 (South Kaioshin) = 7
Fat Buu: 8 - 2 (South Kaioshin and Dai Kaioshin) = 6
Mr. Buu: 2 (he no longer has any of his evil power, only the Kaioshin's)
Evil Buu: 8 (all the original, evil power went to him)
Super Buu: 8 + 2 (the powers added added due to the indirect link)
~
~
~ [other Super Buu forms]
Evil Kid Buu: 8 (he is back to his old form, only this time he only has half a soul due to the earlier separation)

That's my basic theory about Buu's power. There's also interesting things to say about his form and personality, but that's for another time