Super Buu vs Kid Buu

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Xyex » Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:23 pm

@Xyex: Mr. Buu's power, is that 1/3 Fat Buu's power + the Kaioshins? If so, why isn't the sum of Mr. & Evil Buus the same as Fat Buu (120 + 200 =/= 300)?
And Fat Buu.. shouldn't that be Kid Buu - South Kaioshin - Dai Kaioshin?
Mr. Buu's power is 1/4th of the two Kaioshin together, plus a little extra 'buu power'. Evil Buu is just 1/3 of the power of Fat Buu in general.

And no, I've got it as the Dai Kaioshin overriding/superceding the South Kaioshin. South Kaioshin has no effect on Fat Buu's power one way or the other.
Buff Buu: 8 - 1 (South Kaioshin) = 7
Buff Buu is stronger than Super Buu, though.
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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Amigo Ten » Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:27 pm

Super Boo would most likely be stronger just because it's made blatantly obvious that Goku is quite a bit weaker than Gohan. Goku doesn't stand a chance against super Boo, super Boo doesn't stand a chance against Gohan (in terms of power).

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Terra-jin » Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:51 pm

Xyex wrote:Mr. Buu's power is 1/4th of the two Kaioshin together, plus a little extra 'buu power'. Evil Buu is just 1/3 of the power of Fat Buu in general.
Why is that?
And no, I've got it as the Dai Kaioshin overriding/superceding the South Kaioshin. South Kaioshin has no effect on Fat Buu's power one way or the other.
Hmmm, Dabura's comment about Kaioshin power in general seems to point at a different view, but ok.
Buff Buu is stronger than Super Buu, though.
Correct, it's a glitch in my theories. However, I think I can chalk it up to a power surge. Buff Buu appeared stronger because he was under a lot of strain and he let his energy surge up. In reality he was weaker than Super Buu (and even Kid & Evil Buu).
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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Dayspring » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:04 pm

Xyex wrote:In my opinion Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu but not by much. Here's how I break down the Buu's in terms of power:

Mr. Buu ~ South Kaioshin + Dai Kaioshin(/4) + A little "essence of Buu". (120)
Evil Buu ~ About 2/3rds of Fat Buu's power. (200)
Fat Buu ~ Kid Buu - Dai Kaioshin. (300)
Kid Buu ~ "Standard" level. (480)
Super Buu ~ Kid Buu + South Kaioshin - Dai Kaioshin. (520)
Super Buu1.5 ~ Kid Buu + South Kaioshin - Dai Kaioshin + SSJ Goten + SSJ Trunks + Piccolo. (627)
Buff Buu ~ Kid Buu + South Kaioshin. (740)
Super Buu2 ~ Kid Buu + South Kaioshin - Dai Kaioshin + SSJ3 Gotenks + Piccolo. (1,001)
Super Buu3 ~ Kid Buu + South Kaioshin - Dai Kaioshin + SSJ Goten + SSJ Trunks + Piccolo + Ultimate Gohan (1,327)
What makes you think Fat Boo is weakerer than Kid?

Also, Super Boo with Gohan doesnèt have SSJ Trunks and SSJ Goten; they're exhausted base and in base form once the fusion runs out.
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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Savage68 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:55 pm

Dayspring wrote:What makes you think Fat Boo is weakerer than Kid?
The fact that Goku was superior to Fat, and was equal to Kid? :/

Buu's absorption math is irrelevant and virtually unquantifiable along with his power and potential power. What the story portrays is the preeminent source.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Drayenko » Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:54 pm

Savage68 wrote:
Dayspring wrote:What makes you think Fat Boo is weakerer than Kid?
The fact that Goku was superior to Fat, and was equal to Kid? :/

Buu's absorption math is irrelevant and virtually unquantifiable along with his power and potential power. What the story portrays is the preeminent source.
Fat Buu was just playing with Goku, plus Goku was dead. When he fought Kid Buu he was alive...so he got tired...he wasn't weaker than Kid Buu.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Dayspring » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:19 pm

Savage68 wrote:
Dayspring wrote:What makes you think Fat Boo is weakerer than Kid?
The fact that Goku was superior to Fat, and was equal to Kid? :/

Buu's absorption math is irrelevant and virtually unquantifiable along with his power and potential power. What the story portrays is the preeminent source.
The story has Goku admitting to Piccolo that he doesn't think he would have been able to defeat Fat Boo and later telling Vegeta he could not only defeat Kid Boo, but also Fat Boo (as if defeating Fat Boo were a more impressive feat than Kid Boo). Both those statements imply Fat Boo is at least as big a threat as Kid Boo. What exactly are you refering to? :/

Also, 'what the story portrays' also tells us that Boo's absorptions are always quantifiable unless he's absorbing someone purely good. The only time something odd happens is when he absorbs the Dai Kaioshin and the pure-good Fat Boo. Even then, after finding out the original Boo was pure evil, that explains that discrepency.
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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Savage68 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:02 am

Dayspring wrote:The story has Goku admitting to Piccolo that he doesn't think he would have been able to defeat Fat Boo and later telling Vegeta he could not only defeat Kid Boo, but also Fat Boo (as if defeating Fat Boo were a more impressive feat than Kid Boo).
How does admitting that he could've killed Fat come off as being more impressive than killing Kid? It doesn't, as far as I can tell.

The line he said to Piccolo is obviously useless, since we know he retracted it. Neither fighter was serious in the SSj 3 Goku vs. Fat Buu fight, though Goku at least was humoring Buu. Buu had the same grin on his face against Goku as he did against Vegeta, so the likelihood of him holding back is pretty low.

Basically, toying and dead SSj 3 Goku could've killed Fat Buu any time he wanted to.

Alive and serious SSj 3 Goku needed to be at full power to kill Kid Buu.

Unless you think that being dead meant Goku was always at his max power in SSj 3, and fixed his rapid ki-loss, Kid is a tougher opponent than Fat. Do you think Goku would need to charge to his absolute limit to dispatch of Fat Buu?
Also, 'what the story portrays' also tells us that Boo's absorptions are always quantifiable unless he's absorbing someone purely good. The only time something odd happens is when he absorbs the Dai Kaioshin and the pure-good Fat Boo. Even then, after finding out the original Boo was pure evil, that explains that discrepency.
South Kai is never explained. That dude implied to be weaker than SSj Gohan somehow boosted Kid Buu's power not only all the way to Super's , but above it.

The fact that we have Mr. Buu(who is somehow comprised of two Kaioshins, but is high SSj 2-tier, looks like Buu, sounds like Buu, has Buu's powers) existing alongside Kid Buu, who is supposed to have 100% of Buu's original essence is a blatant plothole. But if we're talking Super Buu absorbing people - sure, that works like regular addition.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Senzu_Bean » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:33 am

None Kaioshin can boost Majin Buu power - that is the all reason Babidi didn't used Kaioshin and Kibito powers to resurrected Majin Buu.

Goku isn't even with Chibi Buu. He went all-out against the little demon from the beginning and Goku didn't even fazed him. And seriously, the original Majin Buu (Fat Buu) is nowhere near the league of SSJ3 Goku.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:08 am

So we're sticking firm on the "not going around in circles" stance?
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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Savage68 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:24 am

Senzu_Bean wrote:Goku isn't even with Chibi Buu. He went all-out against the little demon from the beginning and Goku didn't even fazed him.
Uh...neither one of them was more of a threat to the other. Unless regenration means that no one is ever a threat to Buu.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Senzu_Bean » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:38 am

Savage68 wrote:
Senzu_Bean wrote:Goku isn't even with Chibi Buu. He went all-out against the little demon from the beginning and Goku didn't even fazed him.
Uh...neither one of them was more of a threat to the other. Unless regenration means that no one is ever a threat to Buu.
What about Goku and Vegeta stating Buu is playing with them and is far more stronger than neither of the two imagined?

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Savage68 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:43 am

Buu prolonged his regeneration for one panel. A comedy panel.

Being stronger than they thought doesn't mean he's stronger than Goku. Unless Dabura was also much more of a threat because Goku sad he was stronger than he initially thought...

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Senzu_Bean » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:46 am

Do not change my words. Read it again and understand it!

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Savage68 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:47 am

If you weren't talking about prolonging his regeneration, I've no idea what you're getting at.

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Xyex » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:49 pm

Why is that?
He get's 1/4 of their full power because of the negation/suppression effect, and gets a little Buu Power because he's still a Buu and still has Buu-ness in to him.

Evil Buu is 2/3 (the 1/3 in the quote was a typo >>) because he clearly can't have all of Fat Buu's power. I picked a mostly arbitrary level for him. Less than Fat Buu, more than Mr. Buu. Plus, Mr. Buu has close to 1/3 of Fat Buu's level so it seems logical that Evil Buu would have the rest. Fat Buu's only over the 1/3 mark because of the interplay between him and the Kais.
Hmmm, Dabura's comment about Kaioshin power in general seems to point at a different view, but ok.
Not really. It's only said that they can't use Kaioshin's power to restore Buu. We know that South Kaioshin made Kid Buu stronger and Dai Kaioshin made him weaker. I just look at it as not only is the Dai Kaioshin suppressing Buu's power by an equal amount to his own power but is also negating the South Kaioshin's power entirely.
What makes you think Fat Boo is weakerer than Kid?
1) Fat Buu's power is being suppressed by the Dai Kaioshin. He can't access all of his power because of that.
2) Goku was sure he could take Fat Buu at SSJ3 but couldn't do much of anything against Kid Buu.
Also, Super Boo with Gohan doesnèt have SSJ Trunks and SSJ Goten; they're exhausted base and in base form once the fusion runs out.
IMO Super Buu can draw out the full power of a person, period. Thus he gets the SSJ level of power from Goten and Trunks. Otherwise he'd not have managed to get SSJ3 Gotenks's power for the full 30 minutes. SSJ3 Gotenks doesn't last that long. Besides, Gotenks would have been just as unconcious as the others, and thus he'd have dropped back down to base anyway.
Fat Buu was just playing with Goku, plus Goku was dead. When he fought Kid Buu he was alive...so he got tired...he wasn't weaker than Kid Buu.
He was considerably weaker than Kid Buu. And while Fat Buu was playing around, so was Goku. And Fat Buu was at full power but Goku wasn't. Goku is clearly stronger than Fat Buu. Meanwhile Kid Buu was giving better than he got. Yes, Goku was a live and not able to use his full power in SSJ3, but he's at least using the same level he used against Fat Buu and doing far far worse.
That dude implied to be weaker than SSj Gohan
No such implication was made. The only thing that comes close is Gohan pulling out the Z Sword in SSJ when no Kaioshin had done so. But... we also don't know if South Kaioshin ever bothered to try to do so anytime recently. So even if he did it's 100% possible that it was so long ago that his power was under Gohan's at the time, but well over it by the time Buu absorbed him.
The fact that we have Mr. Buu(who is somehow comprised of two Kaioshins, but is high SSj 2-tier, looks like Buu, sounds like Buu, has Buu's powers) existing alongside Kid Buu, who is supposed to have 100% of Buu's original essence is a blatant plothole. But if we're talking Super Buu absorbing people - sure, that works like regular addition.
It's not a plot hole, actually. Buu is a being composed of magic. There are countless possibilities to explain Fat Buu and Kid Buu co-existing and Kid Buu still having all of his normal power.
None Kaioshin can boost Majin Buu power - that is the all reason Babidi didn't used Kaioshin and Kibito powers to resurrected Majin Buu.
South kaioshin is shown to boost his power. The reason Babbidi didn't use East Kaioshin or Kibito's powers to revive Buu is because their energy doesn't work for reviving him. Not that it doesn't work for making him stronger.
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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Senzu_Bean » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:05 pm

Xyex wrote:South kaioshin is shown to boost his power.
No!

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Xyex » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:14 pm

Senzu_Bean wrote:
Xyex wrote:South kaioshin is shown to boost his power.
No!
Uh, yeah, he is.
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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by Senzu_Bean » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:19 pm

Xyex wrote:
Senzu_Bean wrote:
Xyex wrote:South kaioshin is shown to boost his power.
No!
Uh, yeah, he is.
Show me!

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Re: Super Buu vs Kid Buu

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:20 pm

If you can't be bothered to type more than one or two words in response to a thread, please do not bother posting. Thanks.

For the record, I have absolutely zero interest in discussions like this. It's clear to me that many of these questions can't ever be accurately answered; people simply want their own theories echoed back at them and justified. There's a huge difference between a "discussion" and "tell me that I'm right", and you can probably tell my read on the situation.
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