Super Buu vs Kid Buu

[Kaboom]

Show me!

Quotes from Viz:

- Super Boo was too strong for Goku or Vegeta to handle.

• "Wait! He's still stronger than either of us! He'll kill us if we go out like this!" - Goku, to Vegeta while inside Boo.

- 'Buff' Boo was noted as even stronger, before fully reverting to Kid Boo.

• "Um... Vegeta... Isn't his Chi getting bigger?!" - Goku

- In contrast, Goku and Vegeta weren't worried about fighting Kid Boo.

• 'Look at our little friend!" - Vegeta
  "Yeah, we can take him!" - Goku

- Even after Kid Boo proved more than a challenge than initially thought, they were still confident that SSj3 Goku could finish him off. It'd be tough, but was certainly possible. Circumstances just didn't allow it in the end.

• "Don't mind me. Finish him off! Build up your Chi with Super Saiyan 3, and you should be able to obliterate him!" - Vegeta
  "I'd have to rev up for a whole minute to get enough power!" - Goku

So it seems to me that South Kaioshin DID add power to Kid Boo, while only the Dai Kaioshin actually severely weakened him. Super Boo had access to a lot more of this power than Fat Boo did, since his evil side was dominant. When Mr. Boo was completely removed from Super Boo, he briefly reverted to the fully-empowered 'Buff' Boo before completely descending back down to his Kid Boo form.

[hleV]

Guys... Kid Buu shot a Kamehameha into Goku's Spirit Bomb - no effect. Later he pushed it back with his bare hands - so before that he obviously powered up to his fullest.

[rereboy]

Show me!

Quotes from Viz:

- Super Boo was too strong for Goku or Vegeta to handle.

• "Wait! He's still stronger than either of us! He'll kill us if we go out like this!" - Goku, to Vegeta while inside Boo.

- 'Buff' Boo was noted as even stronger, before fully reverting to Kid Boo.

• "Um... Vegeta... Isn't his Chi getting bigger?!" - Goku

- In contrast, Goku and Vegeta weren't worried about fighting Kid Boo.

• 'Look at our little friend!" - Vegeta
  "Yeah, we can take him!" - Goku

- Even after Kid Boo proved more than a challenge than initially thought, they were still confident that SSj3 Goku could finish him off. It'd be tough, but was certainly possible. Circumstances just didn't allow it in the end.

• "Don't mind me. Finish him off! Build up your Chi with Super Saiyan 3, and you should be able to obliterate him!" - Vegeta
  "I'd have to rev up for a whole minute to get enough power!" - Goku

So it seems to me that South Kaioshin DID add power to Kid Boo, while only the Dai Kaioshin actually severely weakened him. Super Boo had access to a lot more of this power than Fat Boo did, since his evil side was dominant. When Mr. Boo was completely removed from Super Boo, he briefly reverted to the fully-empowered 'Buff' Boo before completely descending back down to his Kid Boo form.

I couldn`t have said better myself

[Terra-jin]

- 'Buff' Boo was noted as even stronger, before fully reverting to Kid Boo.

• "Um... Vegeta... Isn't his Chi getting bigger?!" - Goku

That's the most likely interpretation. I go for the less likely view that this bigger Chi is due to a power surge. That makes my theories work again to me, it seems to connect better with Dabura's comment and the general mechanics behind Buu's transformations. But to each his own.

[Senzu_Bean]

I couldn`t have said better myself

It doesn't prove a thing. Goku and Vegeta aren't referring to Buu's ki but size. This Buu can suppress his power and later Goku and Vegeta admitted they underestimate him. Plus it is stated through absorption Buu's power decreased.

[rereboy]

I couldn`t have said better myself

It doesn't prove a thing. Goku and Vegeta aren't referring to Buu's ki but size. This Buu can suppress his power and later Goku and Vegeta admitted they underestimate him. Plus it is stated through absorption Buu's power decreased.

I just happen to think that Goku`s ability to guess the opponent`s power didn`t just go away like that. He was refering to everything about Kid Buu, including his size.

As for the whole "underestimated him", when he stated that, he also said, at the same time, that he would be able to beat him if he concentrated for a minute.
Thats means that he thought that he was stronger than what he initially thought but he could still beat him if he concentrated for a minute. It was still possible to win agaisnt him, even if he was stronger than initially thought.

What did he say about Super Buu again? "Wait! He's still stronger than either of us! He'll kill us if we go out like this!" ? Yeah, comparing that to "I will beat him if I concentrate for a minute", I think it still says that Super Buu is stronger.

[Senzu_Bean]

"Kaioshin: …Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and peace-loving Dai-Kaioshin-sama….The Majin Boo which Bibidi had made was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t control. However, through absorbing [people], he somehow became controllable…
Elder Kaioshin: …So he was finally completed…Meaning…that this small Majin Boo now…is the very first and most troublesome one of all…
Kaioshin: …Yes…His heart which he obtained by lowering his power through absorption, has returned to normal…He has no restraint whatsoever…He’s become evil itself…"
_________________________________________________

Goku regret crushing the Potara while fighting Chibi Buu. And he had to fight Chibi Buu right there while he didn't had to fight Shin Buu. He would have said the same thing if he was facing Shin Buu or if he hadn't underestimate Chibi Buu.

[rereboy]

"Kaioshin: …Next to be absorbed was the fat but kind and peace-loving Dai-Kaioshin-sama….The Majin Boo which Bibidi had made was evil itself, a failed creation that even Bibidi himself couldn’t control. However, through absorbing [people], he somehow became controllable…
Elder Kaioshin: …So he was finally completed…Meaning…that this small Majin Boo now…is the very first and most troublesome one of all…
Kaioshin: …Yes…His heart which he obtained by lowering his power through absorption, has returned to normal…He has no restraint whatsoever…He’s become evil itself…"

That only compares him to Fat Evil Buu, and mainly talks about how much more evil he was. Evil is not equal to power.

Goku regret crushing the Potara while fighting Chibi Buu. And he had to fight Chibi Buu right there while he didn't had to fight Shin Buu. He would have said the same thing if he was facing Shin Buu or if he hadn't underestimate Chibi Buu.

He regretted crushing the Potara because Kid Buu was proving to be more troublesome than he thought. If he had fused he would kill him in a second. But that doesn´t mean that he was more powerful or more trouble than Super Buu would be. Kid Buu was still an awesome opponent even if he was weaker than Super Buu. He was still as powerful or more powerful than Goku and he had apparently infinite regeneration and stamina.

[Xyex]

I couldn`t have said better myself

It doesn't prove a thing. Goku and Vegeta aren't referring to Buu's ki but size. This Buu can suppress his power and later Goku and Vegeta admitted they underestimate him. Plus it is stated through absorption Buu's power decreased.

The idea they were talking only about his size is ludicrous. Both Goku and Vegeta know that size has no bearing on power. They were talking about his power. Yes, they underestimated him, but he was still weaker than Super Buu, and thus weaker than Buff Buu. Also, the only absorption that made Buu weaker was the Dai Kaioshin.

[fktizle]

People overestimate Super Buu way to much. He was tough, but not that strong. Not only that, but the numbers that sites have on Gotenks and Gohan are incredible.

Has anyone actually seen the fight? I mean, Goku says that he's going all out and Kid Buu isin't even responding. He's not hurt at all. The thing with Kid Buu is that he has no restraints holding him back, while Super Buu still have Fat Buu, restraining his Evil power.

[rereboy]

People overestimate Super Buu way to much. He was tough, but not that strong. Not only that, but the numbers that sites have on Gotenks and Gohan are incredible.

Has anyone actually seen the fight? I mean, Goku says that he's going all out and Kid Buu isin't even responding. He's not hurt at all. The thing with Kid Buu is that he has no restraints holding him back, while Super Buu still have Fat Buu, restraining his Evil power.

The only times a Buu gets hurt is when Good Buu fights Kid Buu and when Super Buu fights Gohan.

That basically means that it takes a much more powerful being than that Buu to actually hurt him. Otherwise the Buu just keeps on regenerating and coming back unharmed.

Since SSJ3 Goku is not much more powerful than Kid Buu is only natural for Kid buu to not be hurt by his attacks. Thats exactly what makes any buu such a troublesome opponent.

And actually I don`t think people overestimate Super Buu. I think its the other way around. I think people overestimate Kid Buu (just because he is pure evil and the last form of Buu that appears) and SSJ3 Goku (just because he is the main character).

[Senzu_Bean]

The thing with Kid Buu is that he has no restraints holding him back, while Super Buu still have Fat Buu, restraining his Evil power.

Exactly! Shin Buu and Fat Buu are restrained while Chibi Buu isn't. The quote refers to power and evil, not only evil.

And again, it isn't stated that only Dai Kaioshin weakened Buu since there isn't plural in Japanese.

[rereboy]

The thing with Kid Buu is that he has no restraints holding him back, while Super Buu still have Fat Buu, restraining his Evil power.

Exactly! Shin Buu and Fat Buu are restrained while Chibi Buu isn't. The quote refers to power and evil, not only evil.

And again, it isn't stated that only Dai Kaioshin weakened Buu since there isn't plural in Japanese.

By that logic alone Grey Buu should never have absorbed Good Buu.

Since Good Buu is actually restraining his power (since he is pure good) he would be better off just as Grey Buu.

Make much sense? No? To me neither.

Fat Evil Buu didn`t have a dominant evil mind. He was actually just a big baby who thought that destruction and death were fun because that was all that babidi and his father showed him. We see this when Mr. Satan connects with him. He flat out says that. He did have a evil side to him, though, which appeared on him from time to time, like when he killed Babidi.

Super Buu on the other hand has an evil dominant mind. He is evil and the only trace of good inside of him is his refusal to kill Mr. Satan.

So I don`t really see how exactily Super Buu is restrained by the good in him, except when it comes to kill Mr. Satan.

In a way, Super Buu is similar to what Fat Evil Buu would be like without any restraints.

(The only time a Buu absorption ended up restraining his power was when he absorbed Dai Kaioshin. Every single time besides that time, the absorption increased his power).

[Amigo Ten]

If there's no plural you can't say they definitely were talking about both, since it works both ways. They don't say anything about him becoming weaker or more controllable after only absorbing the south Kaioshin. Just that after he absorbed the fat one he calmed down.

[Senzu_Bean]

The thing with Kid Buu is that he has no restraints holding him back, while Super Buu still have Fat Buu, restraining his Evil power.

Exactly! Shin Buu and Fat Buu are restrained while Chibi Buu isn't. The quote refers to power and evil, not only evil.

And again, it isn't stated that only Dai Kaioshin weakened Buu since there isn't plural in Japanese.

By that logic alone Grey Buu should never have absorbed Good Buu.

Since Good Buu is actually restraining his power (since he is pure good) he would be better off just as Grey Buu.

Wrath Buu is still restricted by Kaioshin. You can see that by his clothes.

If there's no plural you can't say they definitely were talking about both, since it works both ways. They don't say anything about him becoming weaker or more controllable after only absorbing the south Kaioshin. Just that after he absorbed the fat one he calmed down.

You said yourself, you can't say definitely each one or both they are talking about, yet you concluded they're talking about Dai Kaioshin.

Since they don't specify each Kaioshin is safe to assume they're talking about both absorbed by Buu.

[Amigo Ten]

You said yourself, you can't say definitely each one or both they are talking about, yet you concluded they're talking about Dai Kaioshin.

Yeah, because the only say he became controllable after talking about him absorbing the fat Kaioshin.

[Kaboom]

Wrath Buu is still restricted by Kaioshin. You can see that by his clothes.

No he's not. If he was affected by the Kaioshin at all, then he wouldn't be pure evil. The Dai Kaioshin-instilled goodness stayed within Mr. Boo. Gray Boo only has the clothes because he's an offshoot of Mr. Boo, and thus shares some of his physical properties. Like how King Piccolo looked just like Kami.

[Xyex]

Exactly! Shin Buu and Fat Buu are restrained while Chibi Buu isn't. The quote refers to power and evil, not only evil.

No, when they talk about Kid Buu having no restraints they mean he has no goodness in him to hold him back. NOT to hold back his power but to hold back his actions. Notice what he did as soon as he emerged. He blew up the planet just for kicks, not caring about anything else. None of the other Buus did this. Fat Buu was just playing and Super Buu just wanted to challange himself. Kid Buu just wants to break stuff.

And again, it isn't stated that only Dai Kaioshin weakened Buu since there isn't plural in Japanese.

If you use that logic then it's also not stated they're referring to both.

However, it is implied they're referring only to the Dai Kaioshin.

Wrath Buu is still restricted by Kaioshin. You can see that by his clothes.

Evil Buu is pure evil, there is no Kaioshin influence in him at all.

You said yourself, you can't say definitely each one or both they are talking about, yet you concluded they're talking about Dai Kaioshin.

And you concluded they're not, even though it's implied they are.

Since they don't specify each Kaioshin is safe to assume they're talking about both absorbed by Buu.

Actually, its safe to assume they meant the one they directly referrenced. Considering that 1) no comment was made about Buu's power dropping after absorbing the South Kaioshin and 2) Super Buu's power increased when he became Buff Buu it's 99% certain that only the Dai Kaioshin weakened him.

[Savage68]

No such implication was made. The only thing that comes close is Gohan pulling out the Z Sword in SSJ when no Kaioshin had done so. But... we also don't know if South Kaioshin ever bothered to try to do so anytime recently. So even if he did it's 100% possible that it was so long ago that his power was under Gohan's at the time, but well over it by the time Buu absorbed him.

You think Kaioshin would've talked about SK in this same light?

[Senzu_Bean]

Funny how people completely change someone's quote to fit their belief.

Kaioshin: …Yes…His heart which he obtained by lowering his power through absorption, has returned to normal…He has no restraint whatsoever…He’s become evil itself…"